Extinction Light Meters?

[Scheimpflug]

Does anyone have any real-world experience with "Extinction" light meters?

The basic concept, as I understand it, is that the meter has a strip of semi-transparent markings, each at different levels of opacity. You then look into the meter and identify the darkest visible marking from the strip, and use a table to correlate this with the film speed and determine an appropriate shutter speed.

I have always had an appreciation for things which are simple, durable, and reliable, and with no batteries or electronics of any kind, this type of meter seems to fit the criteria. They also appear to be extremely compact. The only downside is that they rely on your eye to do the comparison, so they are not as accurate once your eyes have adjusted to dim conditions.


Has anyone used one of these meters regularly? I'm interested in some feedback as to how well they work, and if it is noticeably better than the "Sunny 16" approach. Thanks.

[ludoo]

I too am interested, a very compact meter, especially of the vintage variety, would be nice. But I suppose there's a reason they have not been in use for a long time.

[PaulC]

One issue you would have with them is that they will all have been made long before the ISO/ASA/Din film ratings were standardised, so the chart they will read off will relate not to ISO but to some other sensitivity standard (there were several). You would have to recalibrate the reading to match the current standard.

I do like the idea, though. I should think they work quite well once you are used to them.

They probably went out of fashion because photographers are obsessed with the idea of precision, though given the tolerances on shutter speeds and the way the needles on old light meters wobble about, electronics may not have led to much more accurate readings.

Did Ansell Adams have an electronic light meter when he developed his zone system or was he relying on an extinction meter?

[Sevo]

Those that I own max out at 17° DIN - which rather limits their practical usefulness. Besides, the accuracy is low, it was more of a memorizing help for people that could not remember sunny 16, and entirely useless for people with accommodation problems.

There once were true visual light meters that compare to a light source of known intensity, but these are far more complex and expensive. The SEI is the only one of that type that survived into the age of electric light meters, mostly because ir was (and to some degree still is) a motion picture industry standard once used by every rental house or studio to calibrate their photoelectric meters to.

[Xpres]

I have some old Agilux cameras with extinction meters built in to the camera. I shot a couple of films with the Agimatic - a 35mm rangefinder - and found the 'meter' fairly accurate. I don't think I'd have exposed any different if I'd just used sunny sixteen though, so useful for those that don't know - which was probably the intention behind its inclusion.

[Minolfan]

I have one, once owned by my father, found out how to use it. The transparent material is not anymore what it should be, I believe and I cannot get results seriously comparable with a more up to dat lightmeter. That is a pity, because it is far more compact than even my Digiflash. So it stays in the drawer.
Even my father did not use it in the period that I can remember, he used sunny sixteen and so held that for more reliable, I think.

[Farside]

The extinction light meter on my older Agifold works very well, the only problem being deciphering the weird notation on the easy-reference circular chart stamped into the take-up knob. Once I got used to it, I found I could rely on it. Conversely, the ELM on my later Agifold is far too dark to be of any use.

[Xpres]

[Scheimpflug]

Thanks everyone.

I'm wondering now if an old extinction meter could be "re-calibrated"... that is, compared side-by-side with a modern light meter under a few different conditions, and a new exposure table written down by hand based on the observations? It seems as though this would not take too long...

I also wonder if a new extinction meter could be created from scratch... perhaps as easy as applying stick-on numbers or dry-transfer decals to a square graduated ND filter? The same technique as above would be required to generate the exposure table...


Although not quite as simple, it also seems as though you could use an LED and a regulated power source as a reference light, combined with an extinction meter, to create a simplified version of the SEI? (Here's a good link, by the way: http://www.jollinger.com/photo/meters/meters/sei_photometer.html) This sounds complicated (more complicated than just buying a modern meter)... but perhaps it would be a suitable modification for a camera with a built-in extinction meter?


Just thinking out loud.

[Farside]

[quote="Xpres"]

[Xpres]

[quote="Farside"]

[Farside]

I think I'll just have to put up with it being unusable, as taking it apart a mint camera goes against the grain a bit. If something else was broken or needed adjusted, like the RF, I'd do it.