View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 1888 Location: New Zealand / USA
Expire: 2011-11-18
|
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:34 am Post subject: Extinction Light Meters? |
|
|
Scheimpflug wrote:
Does anyone have any real-world experience with "Extinction" light meters?
The basic concept, as I understand it, is that the meter has a strip of semi-transparent markings, each at different levels of opacity. You then look into the meter and identify the darkest visible marking from the strip, and use a table to correlate this with the film speed and determine an appropriate shutter speed.
I have always had an appreciation for things which are simple, durable, and reliable, and with no batteries or electronics of any kind, this type of meter seems to fit the criteria. They also appear to be extremely compact. The only downside is that they rely on your eye to do the comparison, so they are not as accurate once your eyes have adjusted to dim conditions.
Has anyone used one of these meters regularly? I'm interested in some feedback as to how well they work, and if it is noticeably better than the "Sunny 16" approach. Thanks. _________________ Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
Tamron: 28/2.8 (Adaptall) Panagor: 28/2.5 (FD) Aetna: 300/5.6 (F) Osawa: MC 28/2.8 (F)
Vintage Lenses: Dallmeyer: 1940s A.M. 14in 356mm f4 (ULF->M42) 1930s Adon Telephoto Taylor, Taylor & Hobson: 1880s Rapid Rectilinear 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 11.31in f/8 (LF->?)
Parts Lenses: Nikon 35-135/3.5-4.5 (F), Sigma 70-210/4.5 (F), Nikon 50/1.8 Series E (F) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ludoo
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Posts: 1397 Location: Milan, Italy
Expire: 2011-12-05
|
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
ludoo wrote:
I too am interested, a very compact meter, especially of the vintage variety, would be nice. But I suppose there's a reason they have not been in use for a long time. _________________ My galleries
Digital: Samsung EX-1
Past Digital: Samsung NX10, Sigma SD9, Sigma SD10, SD14, DP2, Pentax *istD, Kx, Fuji S2 Pro, Canon 5D
Analog: packfilm Polaroids, 6x9 Kodak folders, Pentacon Taxona half-frame, Fujica ST605n, Walz Envoy, Olympus 35 S-II, Olympus Wide S
Past Analog: Polaroid 600se, Polaroid 110B, Canon IIF, various fixed-lens and Russian rangefinders, ...
Past Lenses: Nikkor 24/2.8, Nikkor SC 50/1.4, Nikkor 50/2, Nikkor H 85/1.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5, Nikkor Q 135/3.5, Fujinon 100/2.8, Fujinon EBC 100/2.8, Fujinon EBC 135/3.5, Fujinon EBC 200/4.5, Mamiya SX 135/2.8, CZJ Flektogon 35/2.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1.8 zebra, CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5, ...
altroformato
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
PaulC
Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 2318
|
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
PaulC wrote:
One issue you would have with them is that they will all have been made long before the ISO/ASA/Din film ratings were standardised, so the chart they will read off will relate not to ISO but to some other sensitivity standard (there were several). You would have to recalibrate the reading to match the current standard.
I do like the idea, though. I should think they work quite well once you are used to them.
They probably went out of fashion because photographers are obsessed with the idea of precision, though given the tolerances on shutter speeds and the way the needles on old light meters wobble about, electronics may not have led to much more accurate readings.
Did Ansell Adams have an electronic light meter when he developed his zone system or was he relying on an extinction meter? _________________ View or buy my photos at:
http://shutterstock.com/g/paulcowan |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sevo
Joined: 22 Aug 2008 Posts: 1189 Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Expire: 2012-12-03
|
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sevo wrote:
Those that I own max out at 17° DIN - which rather limits their practical usefulness. Besides, the accuracy is low, it was more of a memorizing help for people that could not remember sunny 16, and entirely useless for people with accommodation problems.
There once were true visual light meters that compare to a light source of known intensity, but these are far more complex and expensive. The SEI is the only one of that type that survived into the age of electric light meters, mostly because ir was (and to some degree still is) a motion picture industry standard once used by every rental house or studio to calibrate their photoelectric meters to. _________________ Sevo |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Xpres
Joined: 11 Dec 2007 Posts: 964 Location: UK
Expire: 2014-10-28
|
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Xpres wrote:
I have some old Agilux cameras with extinction meters built in to the camera. I shot a couple of films with the Agimatic - a 35mm rangefinder - and found the 'meter' fairly accurate. I don't think I'd have exposed any different if I'd just used sunny sixteen though, so useful for those that don't know - which was probably the intention behind its inclusion. _________________ Film... and sometimes SD14, 5D2 and some other suff! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Minolfan
Joined: 30 Dec 2008 Posts: 3439 Location: Netherlands
|
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Minolfan wrote:
I have one, once owned by my father, found out how to use it. The transparent material is not anymore what it should be, I believe and I cannot get results seriously comparable with a more up to dat lightmeter. That is a pity, because it is far more compact than even my Digiflash. So it stays in the drawer.
Even my father did not use it in the period that I can remember, he used sunny sixteen and so held that for more reliable, I think. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 6557 Location: Ireland
Expire: 2013-12-27
|
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
Farside wrote:
The extinction light meter on my older Agifold works very well, the only problem being deciphering the weird notation on the easy-reference circular chart stamped into the take-up knob. Once I got used to it, I found I could rely on it. Conversely, the ELM on my later Agifold is far too dark to be of any use. _________________ Dave - Moderator
Camera Fiend and Biograph Operator
If I wanted soot and whitewash I'd be a chimney sweep and house painter.
The Lenses of Farside (click)
BUY FRESH FOMAPAN TO HELP KEEP THE FACTORY ALIVE ---
Foma Campaign topic -
http://forum.mflenses.com/foma-campaign-t55443.html
FOMAPAN on forum -
http://www.mflenses.com/fs.php?sw=Fomapan
Webshop Norway
http://www.fomafoto.com/
Webshop Czech
https://fomaobchod.cz/inshop/scripts/shop.aspx?action=DoChangeLanguage&LangID=4 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Xpres
Joined: 11 Dec 2007 Posts: 964 Location: UK
Expire: 2014-10-28
|
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Xpres wrote:
Farside wrote: |
The extinction light meter on my older Agifold works very well, the only problem being deciphering the weird notation on the easy-reference circular chart stamped into the take-up knob. Once I got used to it, I found I could rely on it. Conversely, the ELM on my later Agifold is far too dark to be of any use. |
The one on my agifold was very dark too, but was fine after a bit of a clean. Just years of grime I think. _________________ Film... and sometimes SD14, 5D2 and some other suff! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 1888 Location: New Zealand / USA
Expire: 2011-11-18
|
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Scheimpflug wrote:
Thanks everyone.
I'm wondering now if an old extinction meter could be "re-calibrated"... that is, compared side-by-side with a modern light meter under a few different conditions, and a new exposure table written down by hand based on the observations? It seems as though this would not take too long...
I also wonder if a new extinction meter could be created from scratch... perhaps as easy as applying stick-on numbers or dry-transfer decals to a square graduated ND filter? The same technique as above would be required to generate the exposure table...
Although not quite as simple, it also seems as though you could use an LED and a regulated power source as a reference light, combined with an extinction meter, to create a simplified version of the SEI? (Here's a good link, by the way: http://www.jollinger.com/photo/meters/meters/sei_photometer.html) This sounds complicated (more complicated than just buying a modern meter)... but perhaps it would be a suitable modification for a camera with a built-in extinction meter?
Just thinking out loud. _________________ Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
Tamron: 28/2.8 (Adaptall) Panagor: 28/2.5 (FD) Aetna: 300/5.6 (F) Osawa: MC 28/2.8 (F)
Vintage Lenses: Dallmeyer: 1940s A.M. 14in 356mm f4 (ULF->M42) 1930s Adon Telephoto Taylor, Taylor & Hobson: 1880s Rapid Rectilinear 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 11.31in f/8 (LF->?)
Parts Lenses: Nikon 35-135/3.5-4.5 (F), Sigma 70-210/4.5 (F), Nikon 50/1.8 Series E (F) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 6557 Location: Ireland
Expire: 2013-12-27
|
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Farside wrote:
[quote="Xpres"]
Farside wrote: |
The one on my agifold was very dark too, but was fine after a bit of a clean. Just years of grime I think. |
Did you just clean the front surface? I've had a look and a bit of a rub, but there wasn't much muck on it to start with. I wonder if the strip darkens with age/exposure, but this camera has obviously spent a very cared-for time in its case for decades. _________________ Dave - Moderator
Camera Fiend and Biograph Operator
If I wanted soot and whitewash I'd be a chimney sweep and house painter.
The Lenses of Farside (click)
BUY FRESH FOMAPAN TO HELP KEEP THE FACTORY ALIVE ---
Foma Campaign topic -
http://forum.mflenses.com/foma-campaign-t55443.html
FOMAPAN on forum -
http://www.mflenses.com/fs.php?sw=Fomapan
Webshop Norway
http://www.fomafoto.com/
Webshop Czech
https://fomaobchod.cz/inshop/scripts/shop.aspx?action=DoChangeLanguage&LangID=4 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Xpres
Joined: 11 Dec 2007 Posts: 964 Location: UK
Expire: 2014-10-28
|
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Xpres wrote:
[quote="Farside"]
Xpres wrote: |
Farside wrote: |
The one on my agifold was very dark too, but was fine after a bit of a clean. Just years of grime I think. |
Did you just clean the front surface? I've had a look and a bit of a rub, but there wasn't much muck on it to start with. I wonder if the strip darkens with age/exposure, but this camera has obviously spent a very cared-for time in its case for decades. |
Well, I took the camera apart to clean everything. The 'elm' strip I just cleaned with some lighter fluid - it was very grimy, as was the whole camera. It's very possible that it darkens with age of course, I'm not sure what they're made of - might be film of some sort?
I found the tricky bit just getting my eye in the right place to see the 'elm'. This seems to be harder on the later ones.
I'm going to have to dig them out and have a play now and remind myself... _________________ Film... and sometimes SD14, 5D2 and some other suff! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 6557 Location: Ireland
Expire: 2013-12-27
|
Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Farside wrote:
I think I'll just have to put up with it being unusable, as taking it apart a mint camera goes against the grain a bit. If something else was broken or needed adjusted, like the RF, I'd do it. _________________ Dave - Moderator
Camera Fiend and Biograph Operator
If I wanted soot and whitewash I'd be a chimney sweep and house painter.
The Lenses of Farside (click)
BUY FRESH FOMAPAN TO HELP KEEP THE FACTORY ALIVE ---
Foma Campaign topic -
http://forum.mflenses.com/foma-campaign-t55443.html
FOMAPAN on forum -
http://www.mflenses.com/fs.php?sw=Fomapan
Webshop Norway
http://www.fomafoto.com/
Webshop Czech
https://fomaobchod.cz/inshop/scripts/shop.aspx?action=DoChangeLanguage&LangID=4 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|