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Sony mirrorless is here!
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:39 am    Post subject: Sony mirrorless is here! Reply with quote
http://sonyalpharumors.com/

Smart they come with a 24mm eq lens, to distinguish from Panny/Oly/Sammy's offering. Very Happy


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
See, Samsung, THIS is how you launch a new format! Shocked








Any news on what kind of lens adapters it will take?

Thanks for the heads-up! Cool


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Based on how thin the body is, I doubt that it may host many rangefinder's wide angle lenses.


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
With the corner smear of shorter focal length M lens on m4/3, I don't think they will be good on larger sensor without microlens correction?

More importantly, has Canon and Nikon listen and come up with a 35mm mirrorless so that the endless "will this lens hits mirror" thread can finally come to an end?


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Based on how thin the body is, I doubt that it may host many rangefinder's wide angle lenses.


Why not?


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
aleksanderpolo wrote:
With the corner smear of shorter focal length M lens on m4/3, I don't think they will be good on larger sensor without microlens correction?


I am pretty sure they've got off-axis microlenses as they would not have gone got 18mm flange focal distance without them, I am sure.

I wonder if the mount is large enough for a full frame though - it seems like a rather big mount. Also I seem to recall seeing APS-C mentioned in the press release in a place that would indicate that APS-C won't be the only sensor size in the future for this system.

Anyhow, I like the tilting LCD, but for me lack of viewfinder is a deal breaker... maybe. For street shooting...mmm.....

Too bad they decided to not implement the in body IS - evidently for focusing reasons (or so I read from someplace)...


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
too bad it is not a phone, I could be interested, but too big for a phone Crying or Very sad


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I wonder if the handling of such a cam is still OK when a bigger lens is mounted - and with "bigger" I don't mean "huge".


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is not a camera, but a lens, with a little recording device at its end.
I think the recording device is a bit clumsy, don't you think?


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If I read it correctly, one will be able to mount Fullframe and APS-C Minolta/Sony lenses on it with the Mount Adaptor LA-EA1. This means high probability one can develop other adaptor for it.

Another great feature: "If manual focusing is required, don't worry – the cameras' MF Assist function makes it easy. " As far as I know, no Minolta/Sony cameras providing this feature.


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anu wrote:
Orio wrote:
Based on how thin the body is, I doubt that it may host many rangefinder's wide angle lenses.


Why not?


Because most wideangles for rangefinder cameras are non-retrofocal, and non-retrofocal wides often have the back element well protruding, getting almost in contact with the film.


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Scheimpflug wrote:
See, Samsung, THIS is how you launch a new format! Shocked

I don't think this product will bring anything good and practical with the exception of short register distance (= you can use RF/VF lenses). The body is tiny, but lenses are big. The zoom is as big as many DSLR zooms. I think this combo will be pretty unbalanced...


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:

Because most wideangles for rangefinder cameras are non-retrofocal, and non-retrofocal wides often have the back element well protruding, getting almost in contact with the film.


This may be a problem if the rear element is large enough to hit the inside of the camera around the sensor, but the same problem exists with µ4/3 (but it's potentially worse there due to the smaller sensor area). But the body thickness/thinness is not a problem since the adapter can simply add the required extra distance to achieve correct register.


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
The body is tiny, but lenses are big. The zoom is as big as many DSLR zooms. I think this combo will be pretty unbalanced...


Yes, the zoom looks very bulky. Reviewers don't seem to find it particularly unbalanced, however. It probably encourages one to grip the combo by the lens and the tiny camera is just there to provide the button to press.

Still, I would have hoped for more small primes in the initial range, e.g. a 28mm f/1.4 would seem like a good lens to start with; the 16mm f/2.8 seems like a waste of the DoF advantage.


Of course, the beginner-optimised UI makes the camera quite unattractive to existing DSLR users.


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
Scheimpflug wrote:
See, Samsung, THIS is how you launch a new format! Shocked

I don't think this product will bring anything good and practical with the exception of short register distance (= you can use RF/VF lenses). The body is tiny, but lenses are big. The zoom is as big as many DSLR zooms. I think this combo will be pretty unbalanced...


Since when have we cared so much about kit zooms? Very Happy

The short register distance and the large sensor will position this camera well for adapters. You know, to let us use the manual focus lenses that we actually care about. Wink


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here's another first look.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1005/10051102sonynex.asp

With the kit lens it kinda looks like the old DSV-F505 model.


Also in the reviews, bad news for us MFLensers menu access for manual mode will be a bit problematic having to go to the menu each time you need to change something.


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Arkku wrote:

But the body thickness/thinness is not a problem since the adapter can simply add the required extra distance to achieve correct register.


Yes, it's possible. But we can not be sure until we know what is the register distance of this Sony camera. In case it's same long as other m4/3 cameras that have deeper body, there could be problems.


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Yes, it's possible. But we can not be sure until we know what is the register distance of this Sony camera. In case it's same long as other m4/3 cameras that have deeper body, there could be problems.


It's 18mm.



PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:

Yes, it's possible. But we can not be sure until we know what is the register distance of this Sony camera. In case it's same long as other m4/3 cameras that have deeper body, there could be problems.


The register is 18mm, but I still don't follow this reasoning. By definition the register distance is the physical distance from the flange to the sensor, so if it was the same as µ4/3 cameras, then the body could not be thinner in the area that matters. And as it is shorter than µ4/3 cameras, the body is thinner, but the adapter can just add the necessary thickness to make for the correct register.

In fact, the larger sensor means that the camera is guaranteed to have no internal obstacles in that area all the way down to the sensor, while some µ4/3 cameras might protect internal electronics by only exposing the smaller sensor area in the centre of the mount.


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Anu wrote:
Orio wrote:
Based on how thin the body is, I doubt that it may host many rangefinder's wide angle lenses.


Why not?


Because most wideangles for rangefinder cameras are non-retrofocal, and non-retrofocal wides often have the back element well protruding, getting almost in contact with the film.


Yes, but if the lenses work on a film camera with a longer flange focal distance (like Leica M), I see no reason why they would not work on this camera (assuming the mount itself is large enough for the parts of the lens that protrude beyond the mount - as the flange focal distance is just 18mm - a good centimeter less than on Leica mount(s), any adapters will just have plenty of thickness.

Now we could start a betting pool on how long it takes for out chinese friends to start selling the first adapters on eBay...Wink


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
Scheimpflug wrote:
See, Samsung, THIS is how you launch a new format! Shocked

I don't think this product will bring anything good and practical with the exception of short register distance (= you can use RF/VF lenses). The body is tiny, but lenses are big. The zoom is as big as many DSLR zooms. I think this combo will be pretty unbalanced...



These first two cameras are clearly meant for the joe-average consumers - they seem to be just terrific for that group, a group that covers vast majority of consumers. It is clear Sony made the right choice with releasing these two models instead of something what Samsung released - I just don't understand the logic of the fellows who run Samsungs camera division... they just keep dropping the ball Wink

Considering how well enginered the new cameras are, it is quite certain that Sony is dead serious about conquering the mirrorless market. Actually it would not surprise me if they gave up on the regular Alpha line alltogether, at least for consumers, though of course the hairy hand of the market forces will make this decision.

I am pretty sure they will release at least one bigger model later this year, something like Panasonic's G1.

Even though I praise Sony above, I'll just add that I don't really want to buy a camera without an image-stabilizer any more - the K20D has spoiled me totallly. Mayby Pentax will come with a mirrorless - they should at some point, if Hoya wants to stay in the bussiness in the long run.


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I expect that almost all lenses can be mounted to this cam, as soon as the right adapter is on the market.
From that point of view it's a very interesting cam, also eps. due to the APS sensor.

But this cam would - for me - rather be a "lens testing" device than a "real" cam, I guess. It's just too small.

But you never know...


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would love for Nikon to produce a mirrorless body -- but with a viewfinder and no shutter lag. With the ability to use an electronic rangefinder, what's the holdup (besides market forces)?


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anu wrote:

Actually it would not surprise me if they [Sony] gave up on the regular Alpha line alltogether, at least for consumers, though of course the hairy hand of the market forces will make this decision.


I would find it quite surprising if Sony left the DSLR business in favour of EVIL, considering that they keep expanding their A-mount line-up with lenses (including Zeiss collaborations) that would not make much sense with the NEX cameras (e.g. due to size). They might cull the (now overpopulated) low-end of the Alpha range in favour of NEX, though.


PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
gaeger wrote:
I would love for Nikon to produce a mirrorless body -- but with a viewfinder and no shutter lag. With the ability to use an electronic rangefinder, what's the holdup (besides market forces)?


What do you mean by electronic rangefinder? If you mean phase detection AF, it requires part of the image to be diverted into the AF system, which is what the mirror does, so it's not really compatible with mirrorless or live view through the main sensor.

One possibility would be to use a separate AF system, but then it would not be synchronised to the lens/image. Also, active electronic rangefinders have limited range due to the need to bounce a beam back from the target.
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