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Solution for Canon overexposure with MF lenses?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vulko wrote:
rawhead wrote:
Exposure compensation won't help much for this situation, since the degree that needs to be offset changes depending on the aperture; more you stop down, the farther off the meter is. You have to memorize it anyway, or just take several shots to get it right.


There's actually +/-2 EV compesation possibility in postproccess when you shoot in raw. And when you have expirience, you'll be able to make the right compensation after just one shot and then maybe adjust a lil bit when processing raw.


But that easily deteriorates image quality!


PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
... Are you guys sure that you're; setting the right screen in the menu, correctly adjusting for backlit/dark/light subjects? Sorry but unless you all have faulty cameras I can't help thinking you must be doing something wrong.


Martin, we are not stupid and we know what we do when we shoot!
It's great for you that it seems to work with your set-up, but with many others it doesn't.
With my 350D I did not have those problems ... never!
But with my 40D and 5D I know this effect.
And all the setting are correct. I have tried with almost every possible parameter.

I guess, in my case, it has to do with the Leica screen. Because this effect was not there (at least not as obvious) when I shot with my EE-S screen (which is unfortunately scratched and dirty, so I ordered a new one.) When my new EE-S arrives I will try that one, too.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
vulko wrote:
There's actually +/-2 EV compesation possibility in postproccess when you shoot in raw. And when you have expirience, you'll be able to make the right compensation after just one shot and then maybe adjust a lil bit when processing raw.


But that easily deteriorates image quality!

... or potentially improves it. Wink

Overexposing a RAW capture and then pulling it back down in PP is an excellent way to reduce noise and improve shadow detail. Cool As long as the highlights of the scene can deal with it, it is a very handy technique to use in day-to-day shooting.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
martinsmith99 wrote:
... Are you guys sure that you're; setting the right screen in the menu, correctly adjusting for backlit/dark/light subjects? Sorry but unless you all have faulty cameras I can't help thinking you must be doing something wrong.


Martin, we are not stupid and we know what we do when we shoot!

Carsten - I am not suggesting that anyone is stupid. We have people of all levels of experience here so I am trying to find out where this problem is happening.

I have seen complaints about metering before and the only possibilities are user error or equipment fault. Dare I suggest that sometimes it seems to me that the equipment is blamed when it shouldn't be.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Scheimpflug wrote:
LucisPictor wrote:
vulko wrote:
There's actually +/-2 EV compesation possibility in postproccess when you shoot in raw. And when you have expirience, you'll be able to make the right compensation after just one shot and then maybe adjust a lil bit when processing raw.


But that easily deteriorates image quality!

... or potentially improves it. Wink

Overexposing a RAW capture and then pulling it back down in PP is an excellent way to reduce noise and improve shadow detail. Cool As long as the highlights of the scene can deal with it, it is a very handy technique to use in day-to-day shooting.

I noticed this and I used to over expose high ISO shots by 2/3 so I could pull them back to kill noise.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Martin - what metering mode do you use? I think this calls for a weekend exposure test Wink I have several adapters, lenses and long coats hanging around after all... Cool


PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I mainly use average or evaluative. I also have many different chipped adapters as well as un-chipped. I only compensate for backlit and light/dark subjects.

P.S your avatar make you look like a cyclops! Laughing


PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Cyclops! Laughing sorry, I will remove if you object to my abuse of avatars.

Quote:
I think this calls for a weekend exposure test Wink


Good idea.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Scene choice for testing is important. Suggest a uniformly lit mono-color surface that fills well beyond the entire frame.

@LucisPictor thank you, the focus screen used is indeed a major factor!


PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:

@LucisPictor thank you, the focus screen used is indeed a major factor!


I got the new EE-S today. Of course I tried it at once. WOW!
Such a new (and clean!) screen is amazing.
I can focus almost as precisely as with my Leica splitscreen/microprism screen and the metering seems to be perfect and absolutely consistent (tested from f/2 to f/8 )!
Need to test that some more.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fergus wrote:


Cyclops! Laughing sorry, I will remove if you object to my abuse of avatars.

Quote:
I think this calls for a weekend exposure test Wink


Good idea.


Brilliant!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing

LucisPictor wrote:
visualopsins wrote:

@LucisPictor thank you, the focus screen used is indeed a major factor!


I got the new EE-S today. Of course I tried it at once. WOW!
Such a new (and clean!) screen is amazing.
I can focus almost as precisely as with my Leica splitscreen/microprism screen and the metering seems to be perfect and absolutely consistent (tested from f/2 to f/8 )!
Need to test that some more.


Very interesting, thanks!


PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
When I read through the descriptions about focusing screens for EOS DSLRs here and elsewhere on the 'net, I'm beginning to think that one will need a variety of screens to cover all situations. I find this very frustrating. With my old Canon F-1 and Nikon F-2 I have plain matte screens that allow me to use fast, slow, and in-between lenses with equal accuracy. But it appears, from what I've been able to deduce so far, that such an animal doesn't exist for EOS DSLRs. Even the plain matte screens that I've seen so far appear to be optimized for particular ranges of maximum f/stops.

Even after visiting Canon's website and reading through their offerings, I've come to conclude that there doesn't appear to be an all-purpose screen anymore the way there used to be. Frustrating.

I mean if I want to mount an f/1.2 or f/1.4 lens at one moment, and an f/5.6 or f/8 lens at the next, it would appear that I will have to exchange focusing screens also if I want to achieve optimum focus with mf lenses. Is that about the way you see it also?


PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yep. That's how I see it too. The Ee-S screen is fabulous for focusing fast glass, but stop down & it gets dark rapidly. The Ee-A stock screen is perfect for f/3.5 & slower, doesn't go as dark as quickly stopped down, but f/2.8 focus is iffy, forget about nailing focus with any faster glass.

Canon designers seem locked in by photocell placement, hanging all sorts of other functions onto it. Viewfinders receive little notice for the majority of Canon users, other than as a framing device, letting the camera decide focus and exposure. MF lenses use is not even a design consideration anymore imho. Marketing definitely wants people to buy newer AF glass. The pro line at least has better viewfinders; pros demand it -- they actually use the viewfinder for more than framing.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK guys and girls, here's the test as promised. All shots were taken on my 5D on a tripod.

For the first three adapters I used a CZ Planar 50/1.4 @ f1.4, f2, f2.8, f4, f5.6, f8, f11

Adapter 1 - HappyPageHK AF confirm C/Y (black)















Adapter 2 - Similar to no.1 but no chip for C/Y















Adapter 3 - BIG_IS EMF AF confirm C/Y (silver)















Next up, I tested M42 with a Helios 44M-4 @ f2, f2.8, f4, f5.6, f8, f11

Adapter 4 - Generic AF confirm M42 (silver)













Finally, here's the camera with a native Canon EF 50/1.8 II @ f1.8, f2, f2.8, f4, f5.6, f8, f11

Native EF















Conclusion

Metering is up and down with the various adapters. This isn't a massive problem with this test subject, but in real life with bright skies etc. it can cause havoc! I think I'll be following others on here and ordering the EE-S screen for my 5D Smile


PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Right, I've ordered the screen (£30.00 from amazon) and new high quality Nikon and Contax adapters = £100.00 = Eeep! Shocked


PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tried using the exposure compensation, and it works great. Thanks. But yes, definitely, between my two adapters (chipped and not), the automated exposure calculation is highly different.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Different cameras and different MF lenses, and I always had exposure shift.
More relevant with aps-c sensors (350D and 10D).
Improved situation with aps-h sensor (1DmkIII).
Minimal shift with full frame sensor (5Dold).

I like the hypothesis about extra light hitting the exposimeter in aps-size cameras .. similar effect to taking shots with self-timer without covering the viewfinder

I'm waiting for the high-precision matte screen for 5D .. let's see if it will fix also the light exposure shift I have on 5D Wink


PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mount Canon's alternative screen for manual focusing.
It fixes the shift almost completely.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
How can exposure calculation be impacted by the focusing screen?


PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ylyad wrote:
How can exposure calculation be impacted by the focusing screen?

Metering is done by using the surface reflection of the screen. Something like that. Wink


PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My EE-S screen came and exposure is now perfect Smile Also, I didn't realise what I was missing out on before when focusing fast lenses...wow, there's proper bokeh in the viewfinder! I've shown other 5D owners and they are very impressed and none even knew there was a problem with DOF before, or that a fast screen existed Smile


PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
great news Shrek! I removed original screen from first day with 5D2 and I don't know how it's work


PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
great news Shrek! I removed original screen from first day with 5D2 and I don't know how it's work

You mean removed it completely ??

Anyway, I was thinking about it, and I just ordered my Eg-S focusing screen.
What about f/4 lenses and the Eg-S? Does it get too dark?

Are there are no installation instructions in the camera's manual or am I blind?


PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ylyad wrote:
How can exposure calculation be impacted by the focusing screen?

I don't know but it does.
On the 40D in Av Mode, with the standard canon focusing screen, I had to play with overexposure dial to compensate when I closed the diaph. One 1/3 level each time I closed the diaph by one.
With the Canon EF-S matte screen, I didn't have to compensate each time I closed the diaph one stop.

Last edited by Olivier on Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
nkanellopoulos wrote:
Are there are no installation instructions in the camera's manual or am I blind?

Instructions come within the Canon Eg-S screen package. Wink
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