| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 2441
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
|
 Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 12:17 pm Post subject: Rare equipment removed from photographic use by collectors |
 |
|
Esox lucius wrote:
The other day, someone paid USD 34 020 (equivalent to EUR 27 587 with the day's rate of exchange) for a Nikkor fisheye 6/2.8 which was manufactured in a total of 109 copies only. It became one in an endless row of equipment which has been removed from the World of photographic use to sit on a collector's shelf, not producing images for others to enjoy.
Screen grab 1200px - http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6897/nikkor6mmh.jpg
List here other cases, where ridiculous overprice, rarity or other equipment interest merits making it to this sad list.
Vilhelm |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 17633
Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 12:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
LucisPictor wrote:
Yeah, I bought it!
I just had to sell our car. Sshhht! My wife doesn't know yet...
_________________
Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator 
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hari
Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Posts: 1790
Expire: 2015-05-27
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 12:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hari wrote:
| LucisPictor wrote: |
Yeah, I bought it!
I just had to sell our car. Sshhht! My wife doesn't know yet...
|
oh no Lucis!
I took the piles of small change I had lying around and got this one
btw, I paid USD 34 020 and one dirty sock + used bamboo tree
_________________
Analogue Rangefinders: Leica M5, Leica M6 Titanium classic 0.72, Leica M7 0.58, Leica M7 0.85
Digital Rangefinder: Leica M9, Leica Monochrom, Leica M240
SLR: Leica R3 electronic, Canon AE1P
DSLR: Canon 5D MK2
M mount Lenses: Super-Wide Heliar 15/f4.5 ASPH. + Leica 24/f3.8 ASPH + Leica 28/f2 ASPH. + Leica 35/f1.4 ASPH. FLE + Leica Noctilux 50/f0.95 + Leica Noctilux 50/f1 + Canon 50/f1.2 LTM + Leica 50/f1.4 ASPH. + Leica 50/f1.5 + Zeiss ZM Sonnar 50/f1.5 + Leica APO Summicron 50/f2 + Leica Summitar 50/f2 + Leica Rigid Summicron 50/f2 + Zeiss ZM Planar 50/f2 + Leica 50/f2.8 E39 + Leica 75/f1.4 + Leica APO 75/f2 ASPH. + Voigtlander 75/f2.5 + Leica Summarex 85/f1.5 + Leica APO 90/f2 ASPH. + Leica 90/f2 E55 + Leica 90/f2.8 + Leica APO 135/f3.4
Leica R mount Lenses: Leica-R 60/2.8 E55 + Leica-R 80/1.4 E67 + Leica-R 180/4
EF mount Lenses: Canon 50/1.8 II
M42 mount Lenses: Too many
My pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dementedjesus/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1888
Location: New Zealand / USA
Expire: 2011-11-18
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 1:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Scheimpflug wrote:
What makes you think it is being removed from photographic use?
Perhaps instead it was bought from a collector, specifically to be used, putting one more rare lens back into service?
The price isn't a sure indicator... anyone who wants one to use one is going to have to outbid the collectors. 
_________________
Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
Tamron: 28/2.8 (Adaptall) Panagor: 28/2.5 (FD) Aetna: 300/5.6 (F) Osawa: MC 28/2.8 (F)
Vintage Lenses: Dallmeyer: 1940s A.M. 14in 356mm f4 (ULF->M42) 1930s Adon Telephoto Taylor, Taylor & Hobson: 1880s Rapid Rectilinear 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 11.31in f/8 (LF->?)
Parts Lenses: Nikon 35-135/3.5-4.5 (F), Sigma 70-210/4.5 (F), Nikon 50/1.8 Series E (F) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 2441
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 1:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Esox lucius wrote:
Well, given what members on this forum have written about discontinued lenses worth > 1000€
- "I couldn't possibly carry/travel/use it anywhere where it could be lost"
- a specific topic listing gear too precious to be used anywhere
- my personal experience where I for years regularly have been asked how dare you bring that lens here, aren't you afraid something could happen to it and you can't replace it?.
That's comments on affordable discontinued lenses like Nikkor 28/1.4D or Voigtländer APO-Lanthars. I am fairly confident with a price like that, it's not going to see much use if any. I may be wrong of course, let's hope I am. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alex
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 561
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 2:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
alex wrote:
It's going to be a right bugger trying to find a filter for it.
_________________
Alex |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hari
Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Posts: 1790
Expire: 2015-05-27
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 2:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hari wrote:
May also be safe to assume it's a guy and he's not married?
j/k
_________________
Analogue Rangefinders: Leica M5, Leica M6 Titanium classic 0.72, Leica M7 0.58, Leica M7 0.85
Digital Rangefinder: Leica M9, Leica Monochrom, Leica M240
SLR: Leica R3 electronic, Canon AE1P
DSLR: Canon 5D MK2
M mount Lenses: Super-Wide Heliar 15/f4.5 ASPH. + Leica 24/f3.8 ASPH + Leica 28/f2 ASPH. + Leica 35/f1.4 ASPH. FLE + Leica Noctilux 50/f0.95 + Leica Noctilux 50/f1 + Canon 50/f1.2 LTM + Leica 50/f1.4 ASPH. + Leica 50/f1.5 + Zeiss ZM Sonnar 50/f1.5 + Leica APO Summicron 50/f2 + Leica Summitar 50/f2 + Leica Rigid Summicron 50/f2 + Zeiss ZM Planar 50/f2 + Leica 50/f2.8 E39 + Leica 75/f1.4 + Leica APO 75/f2 ASPH. + Voigtlander 75/f2.5 + Leica Summarex 85/f1.5 + Leica APO 90/f2 ASPH. + Leica 90/f2 E55 + Leica 90/f2.8 + Leica APO 135/f3.4
Leica R mount Lenses: Leica-R 60/2.8 E55 + Leica-R 80/1.4 E67 + Leica-R 180/4
EF mount Lenses: Canon 50/1.8 II
M42 mount Lenses: Too many
My pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dementedjesus/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 2441
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Esox lucius wrote:
Safe to assume buyer's insurance company will send Season's Greetings cards, all-around insurance for that lens would be about 1000€ annually (0% VAT) over here (insured for 25 000 EUR) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CarbonR
Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 1969
Location: Clermont-Ferrand, France
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 2:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
CarbonR wrote:
Generally, pure collectors pay lots of money to have lenses they will never use, some of them doesn't know how to use them. Consequences :
- Real users have to pay more than collectors, creating a vicious circle
- We almost never hear about theses lenses or stuff, they do not share anything
That's why I generally hate pure collectors who keep things that are designed to be used , and can still be used nowadays. I know I keep some (rare) lenses, and I don't use often some of them. But lenses users would use whereas I don't are not numerous, and I try to share my results. I would not be surprised too, that this lens will be keep on a shelf or a safe...
_________________
Cameras : Canon 5D, Pentax K100D, Pentax 6x7, Spotmatic
Lenses : 15mm to 1000mm (24x36)
My websites : [FR & ENG]Takumar - the eyes of the Spotmatic : info about all Takumar lenses // Kogaku - My photo site
I am selling : Takumar lenses and rare Pentax bodies, pm me if you're interested in something [MFLenses feed-back]
Information on Takumar lenses with samples :
Wide angle : Takumar 15/3.5 15mm, Takumar 17/4 17mm, Takumar 18/11 18mm, Takumar 20/4.5 20mm, Takumar 24/3.5 24mm, Takumar 28/3.5 V1 28mm, Takumar 28/3.5 V2 28mm, Takumar 35/2 V1 35mm, Takumar 35/2 V2 35mm, Takumar 35/2.3 35mm, Takumar 35/3.5 35mm, Takumar 35/4 35mm
Standard : Takumar 50/1.4 V1 50mm, Takumar 50/1.4 V2 50mm, Takumar 50/3.5 50mm, Takumar 50/4 50mm, Takumar 55/2 55/1.8 55mm, Takumar 55/2.2 V1 55mm, Takumar 55/2.2 V2 55mm, Takumar 58/2 58mm, Takumar 58/2.4 58mm
Short tele : Takumar 83/1.9 83mm, Takumar 85/1.8 85/1.9 85mm, Takumar 85/1.8 85mm, Takumar 100/2 100mm, Takumar 100/3.5 100mm, Takumar 100/4 100mm, Takumar 105/2.8 V1 105mm, Takumar 105/2.8 V2 105mm, Takumar 120/2.8 120mm
Telephoto : Takumar 135/2.5 V1 135mm, Takumar 135/2.5 V2 135mm, Takumar 135/3.5 V1 135mm, Takumar 135/3.5 V2 135mm, Takumar 150/4 V1 150mm, Takumar 150/4 V2 150mm
Long tele : Takumar 200/3.5 200mm, Takumar 200/4 200mm, Takumar 200/5.6 200mm, Takumar 300/4 V1 300mm, Takumar 300/4 V2 300mm, Takumar 300/4 V3 300mm, Takumar 300/6.3 300mm, Takumar 400/5.6 400mm, Takumar 500/4.5 500mm, Takumar 500/5 500mm, Takumar 1000/8 V1 1000mm, Takumar 1000/8 V2 1000mm
Zoom : Zoom-Takumar 45~125/4 , Zoom-Takumar 70~150/4.5 , Zoom-Takumar 85~210/4.5 , Zoom-Takumar 135~600/6.7
Achromatic : Ultra-Achromatic-Takumar 85/4.5 , Ultra-Achromatic-Takumar 300/5.6 300mm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 6622
Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 3:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ManualFocus-G wrote:
Yeah, but then the collectors die and their children sell them badly listed on ebay, and then we snap them up for twenty quid or so
_________________
Graham - Moderator 
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 7448
Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
peterqd wrote:
Are there any pictures around taken with this lens? They must be weird. I bet you can see the back of your head when you're looking through the viewfinder.
_________________
Peter - Moderator |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alex
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 561
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
alex wrote:
| ManualFocus-G wrote: |
| Yeah, but then the collectors die and their children sell them badly listed on ebay, and then we snap them up for twenty quid or so |
And it'd be just your bad luck that a rogue seller was shill bidding, and you ended up paying twenty-five quid, and another ten quid postage. Talk about rip-off.
_________________
Alex |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
egidio
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 222
Location: slovenia
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 9:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
egidio wrote:
a lot of good lenses are owned by collectors and not photographers. People are too worried to scratch the lens body these days, just for retail value
_________________
I use: Flektogon 2.8/20, Flektogon 2.8/35, planar 50mm/1.4, Takumar 1.4/50mm, Takumar 1.9/85, MIR 24H, Mir1v, Industar-50-2, Helios-44-2, Pentacon 2.8/135, cyclop 85 1.5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mal1905
Joined: 30 Oct 2008
Posts: 1705
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Expire: 2011-11-18
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 9:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Mal1905 wrote:
| peterqd wrote: |
| Are there any pictures around taken with this lens? They must be weird. I bet you can see the back of your head when you're looking through the viewfinder. |
I was once given the opportunity to shoot a few frames with the Zeiss Hologon. Easy to use, once the overwhelming desire to hold the camera 'normally' can be forgotten ...trying to tell people that the trigger-grip was so much more than an optional extra was always a giggle!!!
The world's most expensive point and shoot camera - 110 degrees angle of view!
_________________
Canon EOS 5D / EOS 40D
Carl Zeiss Jena: Flektogon 2.8/20, 2.4/35, 2.8/35, Pancolar 2/50, MC 1.8/50, MC 1.8/80, Triotar 4/135, Tessar 2.8/50, S 4/135 1Q, S 3.5/135, Sonnar 3.5/135 MC, 2.8/180, Biotar 2/5,8cm, 2/58, 1.5/75
Carl Zeiss: Distagon 2/28 T*, 1.4/35 T*, Ultron 1.8/50, Tessar 2.8/50, Planar 1.4/50 T* MM, 1.7/50 T* MM, 1.4/85 T* AEG, Sonnar 2.8/135 T*
Asahi Optical Co.: Super-Multi-Coated Takumar 4.5/20, 3.5/24, 3.5/28, 2/35, 3.5/35, 1.4/50, 1.8/55, 1.8/85, 2.8/105, 2.8/120, 2.5/135 I & II, 3.5/135, 4/150, 4/200, 4/300, 5.6/400, 4/45-125, 4.5/85-210, Super-Takumar 4.5/20, 3.5/24, 3.5/28, 2/35, 3.5/35, 1.4/50, 1.8/55, 2/55, 2.8/105, 3.5/135, 4/150, 4/200, 4.5/70-150, Fish-Eye-Takumar 4/17, Macro-Takumar 4/50, Super-Macro Takumar 4/50, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-Takumar 4/50, 4/100, Bellows-Takumar 4/100, Asahi-Kogaku Takumar 3.5/50, 2.4/58, 3.5/100, Asahi-Kogaku Tele-Takumar 3.5/135, Auto-Takumar 2.3/35, 3.5/35, 1.8/55, 1.8/55 (Zebra), 2/55, 2.2/55, 1.8/85, 2.8/105, 3.5/135, Takumar 4/35, 2.2/55, 2/58, 2.8/105, 3.5/135, 3.5/200, 5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 5.6/200, 6.3/300, SMC Takumar 1.4/50, 1.8/55, 2/55, SMC-M 1.4/50, 1.7/50, 2/50
Tomioka: Tominon 2/5cm, Auto-Chinon 3.5/21, 1.4/55, Auto-Yashinon DS-M 1.2/55 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
symphonic
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 550
Location: SE Europe, Croatia
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 10:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
symphonic wrote:
I agree with you on the collectors part.
I can't imagine even how to properly handle a lens like this. And the price is really ridiculous.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 2441
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 10:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Esox lucius wrote:
| peterqd wrote: |
| Are there any pictures around taken with this lens? They must be weird. I bet you can see the back of your head when you're looking through the viewfinder. |
Some photos here. The 220 degree field of view would be quite challenging for anyone who'd like to share photos taken with it.
http://www.nikonweb.com/fisheye/
Design story: http://imaging.nikon.com/products/imaging/technology/nikkor/n06_e.htm
Applications: http://www.nearfield.com/~dan/photo/wide/fish/index.htm
More samples: http://philip.greenspun.com/images/pcd2386/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nemesis101
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 2050
Location: Oregon USA
Expire: 2015-01-22
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 10:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
nemesis101 wrote:
I think it is a bargain price when you consider what Arse n All ask for a 'rare' 'prototype' 49mm filter! lol
Doug
_________________
Lenses and cameras:
Amateurs worry about equipment
Pros worry about money,
Masters worry about light.
Last edited by nemesis101 on Sat May 29, 2010 11:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 7448
Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 10:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
peterqd wrote:
| Esox lucius wrote: |
| Some photos here. |
Thanks for looking them up for me! It's not as wierd as I imagined. Thank goodness I'm not a collector.
I'm not a collector...
I'm NOT a collector..
_________________
Peter - Moderator |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 16664
Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
|
| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 11:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
kds315* wrote:
A guy I know uses it...
to make shots like that with it...
I had that lens (another copy) for a while, but sold it later...
_________________
Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 2441
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 6:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Esox lucius wrote:
| kds315* wrote: |
to make shots like that with it...
|
Yes! Great you posted it, I could not find these though I searched bookmarks. His work is outstanding, I am thrilled to see this lens is kept alive by skilled creative minds like his. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PaulC
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 2318
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 7:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
PaulC wrote:
Hopefully the new owner will "AI" it with a Dremel tool to make it more handy for modern cameras. That's what I'd do, the AI version is always worth more. 
Seriously, though, I don't get the "depriving the world of pictures from it" argument. Where are all the pictures the world is admiring from the other 100+ copies of this lens? The world isn't admiring them, we can't even find more than a handful. And what value would there be in Mr Averagely-crappy photographer owning it, shooting like mad with it, and sharing every ugly, ill-composed frame with us through Fickr?
It's only in the hands of a real Master that this lens would generate outstanding images (unless you think everything distorted is outstanding), and the Master will create great photos regardless of whether he has this lens (so if he was using it, it would be depriving us of the masterpieces he would have been creating with another lens if he didn't have that one).
_________________
View or buy my photos at:
http://shutterstock.com/g/paulcowan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 2441
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 7:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Esox lucius wrote:
What do you recommend? That there would be some sort of a quality certificate or creative driver's license for a person to have a right to own a rare lens?
Seriously: I rather see shitloads of crap photos with odd & rare lenses on Flickr than wikipedia-clone blogs where photogs present collections of cameras, as opposed to collections of photos. The value in the crap on Flickr is that from a heap of dung always rises seeds of creativity, if not directly in results by existing owners then as a source for others to discover lenses and use them with more interesting results.
No, I don't find anything distorted creative. I do find this particular photographer's use of the strange perspective this lens produces to be very creative though:
http://www.kubetschek.de
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PaulC
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 2318
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 7:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
PaulC wrote:
| Esox lucius wrote: |
| What do you recommend? That there would be some sort of a quality certificate or creative driver's license for a person to have a right to own a rare lens? |
Not at all ... quite the reverse, I was arguing that anybody should be allowed to buy it.
Without even having to sign a certificate guaranteeing that it won't simply sit on a shelf doing nothing.
To me it looks as if the "it should be being used so we can see great photos" trends more to insisting that owners should be licensed master photographers before being allowed to buy.
_________________
View or buy my photos at:
http://shutterstock.com/g/paulcowan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 2441
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 7:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
Esox lucius wrote:
I may be an idealist then, because I've sold rare equipment I owned so that it would find an owner who used it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cowboy
Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Berlin
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
Search
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
