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Fujifilm Finepix S3
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:20 am    Post subject: Fujifilm Finepix S3 Reply with quote
Hi folks.

I have a chance to pickup a near mint Fujifilm Finepix S3 camera at a good price and was hoping some people here have some experience and info to share about it?

Also, what is the situation with Nikon lenses and this camera, it has a Nikon mount but what types of lenses will fit? I don't know much about Nikons, there is non-AI, AI, AIS etc etc, can I use any Nikon lens with this camera or only certain types?


PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I briefly had an S2, and while it produced pretty good images straight out of camera, it was a slow clunky beast. But I paid 100€ for it and for that price it was ok.

The S3 is a later model, should be faster in use (compared to glacial slowness of the S2, not to modern cameras), and has a better sensor with about 10 stops of dynamic range. As for lenses, you cannot use pre-AI lenses on it, and manual lenses only work without a meter.

I'd say if the price is good, get it, use it, then if you find you don't like it much resell for the same price.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice cam indeed!

I have shot with the S1 (dinosaur) and the S2 (much better).
And the S3 is again much better than the S2!

If the price is nice, go for it!


PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Given the register distance issue, unless you already have Nikkor lenses, or want to invest in them, give it a miss.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
Given the register distance issue, unless you already have Nikkor lenses, or want to invest in them, give it a miss.


Good point!


PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
Given the register distance issue, unless you already have Nikkor lenses, or want to invest in them, give it a miss.


Yes, that is my concern, and no metering on manual lenses is a big turn-off.

I don't like the modern Nikkor zooms, they are plastic junk imho, look on ebay, there are tons of them with broken bayonets (plastic, crap) and loads with other issues such as the barrel falling apart (plastic again) so the inability to use old manual Nikkors is the deal breaker for me.

Another EOS I think is the way to go for me, I might sell my NEX and a few lenses to pay for it.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The no meter thing is not really an issue: just use the histogram and adjust from there. It's pretty easy and you get the hang of it after a while, and there's plenty of excellent AI lenses for pretty cheap.

But if you are looking for an old body with a special sensor, the best bargain around is probably a Sigma SD-10: you can use Sigma SA lenses, M42 lenses with a cheap adapter, or convert the bayonet on the body to EOS (same register distance), and it has what is probably the best version of the Foveon sensor ever made. Pictures from it have a kind of "sharp softness" I've never seen from any other camera. I still regret selling mine and will get another as soon as I can. Oh, and they usually go for ~120€.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cheers Ludoo, I'll look into that Sigma.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The SD10 is a great suggestion, as long as you don't want to shoot at high ISO. There it sucks. Wink


PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Would the SD10 be an improvement in IQ over my EOS 10D? (Which also sucks at high ISO - so much noise!)


PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Would the SD10 be an improvement in IQ over my EOS 10D? (Which also sucks at high ISO - so much noise!)


Without having a direct comparison, I think that the SD10 shows more noise than the 10D, esp. because you only get RAW-Files from the SD10 and need to process each of them and when doing that wrongly it deteriorates image quality. The software "Sigma Pro Photo" is not very good and rather slow on "normal" computers.
If everything is perfect, the images the SD10 produces are fantastic, surely better than the 10D! But there are many parts in the developing chain that can go wrong.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jeez, more noise than the 10D? Is that possible? Mine is unusable past ISO 200 due to noise.

Last edited by iangreenhalgh1 on Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:53 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
Given the register distance issue, unless you already have Nikkor lenses, or want to invest in them, give it a miss.


It isn't that bad. Wink I thought the register distance would be a huge issue at first, but over the years I have picked up quite a few decent lenses.

As a potential F-mount body owner, instead of worrying about what *won't* work, you have to instead consider all of the different lenses that *will* mount to it.
* The Nikkors and the non-Nikkor Nikons (Series E)
* Third-party T and T2 mounts lenses
* Tamron lenses with Adapt-A-Matic, Adaptall, and Adaptall-2 mounts
* Sigma YS-mount lenses
* Russian lenses designed for the Kiev 17, 19, 20, or 19M (example: Helios-81N)
* Vivitar T4 and TX mount lens
* The various proprietary Russian interchangeable mounts (Peleng, etc)
* Medium format lenses (Pentacon 6, etc.) with adapters
* Anything you want to use as a macro (where the extension of an adapter is acceptable)
* Any lens on a bellows (same reason as above)
... and of course the biggest category:
* Any third-party lens made with a fixed Nikon mount (and there are a lot of them!)


You are right though that the investment aspect is dependent on what you already have. If you already have a huge set of non-compatible lenses which you would like to use, then perhaps an F-mount body isn't a good choice. But on the other hand, a new investment in F-mount lenses is a pretty solid choice, as they can be used by both Nikon cameras and Canon EOS cameras with adapters. It keeps your body options open for the future.



ludoo wrote:
The no meter thing is not really an issue: just use the histogram and adjust from there. It's pretty easy and you get the hang of it after a while, and there's plenty of excellent AI lenses for pretty cheap.

x2.

Quite a few Nikon bodies don't meter with manual lenses either, and our D40 is in that group. It really isn't a big deal. After a while, you get used to it and start "guessing" surprisingly accurate exposures. If you are unsure, you do just as ludoo said - shoot a frame and check the histogram, then make an adjustment. Depending on the camera, this can be a very quick process.

Unless you shoot action shots (where you can't re-shoot a bad shot) AND do so in quickly changing lighting (where you can't set the exposure in advance), the lack of metering is pretty much a non-issue. Cool


PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
+1 to what Scheimpflug wrote above.

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Jeez, more noise than the 10D? Is that possible? Mine is unusable past ISO 200 due to noise.


There's more noise, but I don't think you should worry about it that much: at low(ish) ISO it does not detract from iq, and anyway it all depends on how large you print your images.

As for Sigma Photo Pro, many don't like it but I find it pretty good: it's free, it works better on foveon files than any other converter, and basic things (color correction, ev, shadow/highlights, fill light) are done right and easy to apply. If you need additional tools just export the x3f as a 16bit tiff and finish the image in photoshop or whatever. The process can be slow, but foevon images usually require less tweaking than images from bayer sensors, and they have different qualities.

A few shots from my SD10

ISO 400, Pancolar 50/1.8


100% crop


ISO 100, Flektogon 35/2.4


ISO 100, Flektogon 35/2.4


100% crop


PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ian, may i suggest that possibly the nex is suffering from settings, the nex is brilliant for night and high iso shots but i would recomend certain settings being disabled
.
Ensure that long exposure nr is turned off
And high iso nr is set to Auto rather than weak
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/NEX5/NEX5HI_ISO_NR.HTM

Last edited by eddieitman on Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some review here:
http://chiwaihung.com/index.html

http://forum.mflenses.com/fujifilm-fuji-dslr-camera-brochures-and-test-reports-t40080.html


PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Eddie, I will look at my NEX settings.

This is the only nighttime shot with the NEX I was happy with.




Cheers for those links sting.

I almost bought the only SD10 on ebay, a mint boxed one with 18-55 lens but I backed out as it went a little higher than I hoped, I feel I need to save my pennies for a really good DSLR like a 5D.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cant see the image but here are a few examples with my NEX at stupid settings taken not longer than 2 minutes ago
I could only really see the window and the patio yard but this is what comes out
Lens a Konica 40mm F1.8

Also worth experimenting with the dynamic range i always have mine turned off as this can introduce noise
Tripod, camera set to ISO 1600 and one at 800 for show
F11 aperture
30" exposure
Straight Jpgs from camera no PP at all

ISO 800

Iso 1600

Iso 1600 D range on Auto




I really dont think that that is a shoddy performance for the ISO


OK and just to compare here is the performance of ISO 1600 D range off on the Sony A700 with 50mm F1.7 at F11 and 30"
D range off
OK the light had been turned off by the time i did this one but just look at the noise it horrible the NEX beats it hands down



PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I forgot to upload the picture:



One major problem with using long exposures on the NEX (that one was 30 secs) is that it displays a processing image message for at least 30 secs afterwards, that is just unacceptable, my EOS 10D pauses for maybe 3 secs after taking a 30 sec exposure.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ehh 30 seconds may i suggest you have a crap card mine takes 1 to 2 secomds i suspect your card is a wank ebay copy
http://www.mymemory.co.uk/SDHC/Integral/Integral-16GB-Ultima-Pro-SD-Card-%28SDHC%29---Class-10
Thats the stuff in my camera


And here is a video i made for you excuse the crap quality was done on an old phone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep9aIJOTbgM
I make it 1.5 seconds to write
at 35 seconds the shutter closes and by 37 the image has displayed on the back, i then press the play button to demonstrate


PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
One major problem with using long exposures on the NEX (that one was 30 secs) is that it displays a processing image message for at least 30 secs afterwards, that is just unacceptable, my EOS 10D pauses for maybe 3 secs after taking a 30 sec exposure.


That's the dark frame subtraction - it's a feature. Wink

The way dark frame subtraction works is that after taking a long-exposure shot, it closes the shutter and takes another shot of equal duration with the shutter closed. In theory, this image should be 100% black because the shutter is closed, but it ends up being peppered with hot pixels, and with gradients of intensity due to "amp glow". By taking a black frame immediately after, and subtracting it from the real frame, you can easily process away many of these image artifacts.

You can see if there is a setting in the menus for long exposure noise reduction, and disable it.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I got the card from my local supermarket, I think it's a TDK, shouldn't be too crap.

A feature eh, I didn't know that, I picked the camera up and moved it while it was displaying that message which probably didn't help!


PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
A feature eh, I didn't know that, I picked the camera up and moved it while it was displaying that message which probably didn't help!


Moving it should be just fine - the shutter is closed during that second shot, so it doesn't matter what it is pointing at, or whether you are holding still. Wink


PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ian, just turn off long exposure noise reduction as already suggested. It is important to understand your camera before writing it off, the Nex is an excellent little camera with great high ISO capability.

The setting is here:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/NEX5/NEX5MENUS.HTM

The 10D is a decent enough camera (I owned one for a while) and noise is fine up to ISO 400. Are you pushing the exposure after the shot or something?


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I haven't written the NEX off yet but there are a lot of things about it I don't like, it's no replacement for an SLR, which I was hoping it would be. The screen is very good but it's no substitute for a VF and I absolutely hate the controls.

I find the noise of the 10D unnacceptable at 400, requiring PP to reduce it, hence I shoot only at 100 with it and have foun myself using a tripod a lot more often.
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