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35mm cameras with changeable back.
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:06 am    Post subject: 35mm cameras with changeable back. Reply with quote
I was thinking about 35mm cameras with changeable back during my last trip. I took 3 cameras with different films and had to decide every morning which one to take on the day trip since I didn't want to break down around midday. It would have been much easier with one camera and 3 backs and I wondered why the modular system of the med format hasn't come to the 35mm as well.

I have once seen a Rollei 2000SL where you can change the backs and was interested in it but it seems that this type of camera was very unreliable and thats nothing I want to bother with. I have heared about a Contarex camera where you can change the back but these are collectors items and therefore are quiete costly.

Are there any cameras on the market which don't cost a fortune and where you can change the back midroll?


PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting question. I wonder how the counter mechanism would be preserved? Perhaps for rollfilm it's just logistically easier, but then, I'm not skilled in the nature of design. I do sometimes wish that there were an easier way than taking extra bodies to cater for different film types, though in my case, my spare loaded bodies tend to be Yashica FX3's, which happen to be very compact.


PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
erm what about a recommended P&S e.g. Nikon L35ad, Konica c35 etc as a second camera.......................................


PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
alex wrote:
Interesting question. I wonder how the counter mechanism would be preserved? Perhaps for rollfilm it's just logistically easier, but then, I'm not skilled in the nature of design. I do sometimes wish that there were an easier way than taking extra bodies to cater for different film types, though in my case, my spare loaded bodies tend to be Yashica FX3's, which happen to be very compact.


As for my Bronica ETRS the counter is part of the back.

Quote:
erm what about a recommended P&S e.g. Nikon L35ad, Konica c35 etc as a second camera.......................................


I know that this is one solution and I also got some small shooters - Oly 35RC, Rollei 35, Yashica T4. They deliver all good to very good results but you are stuck with the fixed lens and the metering system isn't accurate enough for all situations.


PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: 35mm cameras with changeable back. Reply with quote
IANUS wrote:
Are there any cameras on the market which don't cost a fortune and where you can change the back midroll?


To a point, the APS (Advantix) SLRs could have solved your problem. The APS film & cartridges were self-loading, and had provisions for stopping & automatically restarting partially exposed rolls.

Otherwise, there was a trick we learned in one of my beginner courses - if you folded the first few mm of the film leader backwards over itself and creased it before loading the film in the camera, then after taking a few pictures you could CAREFULLY rewind the film until that end of the leader caught on the opening of the film canister. You would be able to feel it when the tension on the rewind crank increased, and you could then open the back of the camera with just that little bit of the film hanging out of the canister. If you kept track of your frame count well enough, you could then restart that roll later on, just taking frames with the lens cap on to advance to the place where you left off. Cool


PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have always lived with the weight of a second compact body and some extra films, pen and labels. If circumstances were too much different from the start of my trip I took the film out of one of the bodies, labelled the filmcanister for the used frames and went on. Cost some time to change, but extra films and labels are lightweigt. For MF it is not easy to change film, the films had fewer frames to make and the need of fast change in professional work is obvious. So don't be surprised bij the difference in systems.


PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for the comments. It seems thet I have to live with the additional body in my bag. It was just an idea to make things easier (or lighter).

Rewinding and changing the film isn't really an option for me. On a trip it is too time consuming and changing for only a few frames would be a bit painful in the end.
The APS-system isn't really better in this respect. A couple of years ago I had an APS SLR (Minolta Vectis S1) but you also have to rewind the complete film before changing. There are also no slides or real b/w films for the APS system and my Scanner won`t do with the cartridges.


PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bringing this one back up... Just came across an auction for a "Kodak Ektra". It's a collector AND unreliable, so not what you were after, but its still pretty darn cool. Cool

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Film-cameras/Vintage/auction-292491391.htm









PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi,

Unfortunately, all of the 35mm interchangeable-back cameras I'm aware of seem to entail significant compromises: cost, rarity and/or unreliability (or a combination thereof).

The least costly option may be the Zeiss Contaflex; some of the Contaflex models could accept interchangeable backs. The Camerapedia Contaflex article (sorry, I don't seem to be able to get the link to work) shows one of these backs in use.

The Contaflex certainly doesn't command Contarex/Ektra prices. But like the other leaf-shutter SLRs of its day, it's a complicated design, and the surviving cameras are now more than half a century old. So unless you buy a freshly restored example, you're likely to have reliability problems.

There are other issues as well: the Contaflex is not a pure interchangeable-lens camera, in that it accepts only a handful of supplementary lenses that use part of the normal lens's optical train. So lens choices are limited (and separation is also a common problem among the supplementary Contaflex lenses). Add to that the fact that while the cameras may not be rare or terribly expensive to acquire, the interchangeable backs themselves may not be easy to find. EDIT: Then again...Click here to see on Ebay...and...Click here to see on Ebay

But if you could manage with only the normal lens - the later recomputed Tessar is highly regarded - and if you could locate a reliable specimen along with the magazine back, a Contaflex might merit consideration.

Cheers,

Jon


PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
They aren't SLRs but the Mamiya Magazine 35 and the Adox 300 had
interchangeable film backs.


PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
IANUS wrote:
As for my Bronica ETRS the counter is part of the back.

I've just moved more into the medium format field with a new (to me) Mamiya 645 Pro. The counters are part of the back, and there's also a 135 back, though of course that's too heavyweight a solution for this problem. My main 35mm system is Contax, but I have a couple of FX-3 bodies, and they are compact and light, though I too can always find a spare corner for an Oly 35RC or a Yashica T5. My T5's metering is very reliable, which is more than I could say for my old T3.


PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Scheimpflug wrote:
Bringing this one back up... Just came across an auction for a "Kodak Ektra". It's a collector AND unreliable, so not what you were after, but its still pretty darn cool. Cool


That one looks good but the price is out of question for now and forever.


PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Univer wrote:
Hi,

Unfortunately, all of the 35mm interchangeable-back cameras I'm aware of seem to entail significant compromises: cost, rarity and/or unreliability (or a combination thereof).

The least costly option may be the Zeiss Contaflex; some of the Contaflex models could accept interchangeable backs. The Camerapedia Contaflex article (sorry, I don't seem to be able to get the link to work) shows one of these backs in use.

The Contaflex certainly doesn't command Contarex/Ektra prices. But like the other leaf-shutter SLRs of its day, it's a complicated design, and the surviving cameras are now more than half a century old. So unless you buy a freshly restored example, you're likely to have reliability problems.

There are other issues as well: the Contaflex is not a pure interchangeable-lens camera, in that it accepts only a handful of supplementary lenses that use part of the normal lens's optical train. So lens choices are limited (and separation is also a common problem among the supplementary Contaflex lenses). Add to that the fact that while the cameras may not be rare or terribly expensive to acquire, the interchangeable backs themselves may not be easy to find. EDIT: Then again...Click here to see on Ebay...and...Click here to see on Ebay

But if you could manage with only the normal lens - the later recomputed Tessar is highly regarded - and if you could locate a reliable specimen along with the magazine back, a Contaflex might merit consideration.

Cheers,

Jon




Do you know which of the Contaflexes do accept those backs (or do you know an internet resource)? If I come across a good specimen I would give it a try.


PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
alex wrote:
...though I too can always find a spare corner for an Oly 35RC or a Yashica T5. My T5's metering is very reliable, which is more than I could say for my old T3.


Thats what I am doing at the moment. Finding a place for a small camera.

Is the T5 comparable to the T4? I didn't like this camera. You never knew what it was doing since there was no way to check the aperture, focus or shutter speed.


PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have an immaculate Contaflex as new (Tessar and one additional add-on lens) with a nice case, and a NEW never used back in its as new brown leather case with the instructions!

... all I need is an offer! Always interested in swaps too - pictures of kit can be had if wanted.

Doug



IANUS wrote:
Univer wrote:
Hi,

Unfortunately, all of the 35mm interchangeable-back cameras I'm aware of seem to entail significant compromises: cost, rarity and/or unreliability (or a combination thereof).

The least costly option may be the Zeiss Contaflex; some of the Contaflex models could accept interchangeable backs. The Camerapedia Contaflex article (sorry, I don't seem to be able to get the link to work) shows one of these backs in use.

The Contaflex certainly doesn't command Contarex/Ektra prices. But like the other leaf-shutter SLRs of its day, it's a complicated design, and the surviving cameras are now more than half a century old. So unless you buy a freshly restored example, you're likely to have reliability problems.

There are other issues as well: the Contaflex is not a pure interchangeable-lens camera, in that it accepts only a handful of supplementary lenses that use part of the normal lens's optical train. So lens choices are limited (and separation is also a common problem among the supplementary Contaflex lenses). Add to that the fact that while the cameras may not be rare or terribly expensive to acquire, the interchangeable backs themselves may not be easy to find. EDIT: Then again...Click here to see on Ebay...and...Click here to see on Ebay

But if you could manage with only the normal lens - the later recomputed Tessar is highly regarded - and if you could locate a reliable specimen along with the magazine back, a Contaflex might merit consideration.

Cheers,

Jon




Do you know which of the Contaflexes do accept those backs (or do you know an internet resource)? If I come across a good specimen I would give it a try.


PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
IANUS wrote:
Is the T5 comparable to the T4? I didn't like this camera. You never knew what it was doing since there was no way to check the aperture, focus or shutter speed.

I think the T5 is known in the US as the T4 Super. Mine is a basic model, no date imprinting or anything like that, and like your T4 it's a true P&S, where the only control you have is whether the flash is on or off. If I want a small camera where I know the numbers, I use my Oly 35RC, but the T5 consistently impresses me, and I like it more than I should, given that I too like to know what the camera's doing. I took my Oly and my T5 as backups on a visit to Pompeii a few years ago, along with the 'main' camera, which was a Contax 159 with a standard 28/50/135 travel trio of Distagon, Planar and Sonnar. Opening the first of the returned colour packs, on getting the films processed once home, I remember looking through one set of street scenes from the ruins of Pompeii, and thinking how well the Contax kit had performed. It was only when I noticed that all the view angles were the same, and no tele or wided shots, that I realised I wasn't looking at the Contax/Zeisses, but one of the compacts, and my record book then showed that I was looking at the pack of T5 pictures. That little T* Tessar acquitted itself really well.

Of course, in Pompeii on a day when the high altitude sun was splitting the stones, exposure was never going to be a problem and shutter/aperture combinations would be short, but I can say that it taught me to have confidence in the T5. Its metering never seemed to be fazed by anything, though I don't load it with anything slower than ASA 400.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This isn't quite "changeable backs", but I came across an interesting website today with a mention of a few cameras that can shoot "cassette-to-cassette" - without an open takeup spool.

Here's a photo of an Exakta, from http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps%20how%20choose%20cassetes.html:
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps%20how%20choose%20cassetes.html wrote:


You would lose a few frames, and it makes the loading more complicated, but this system allows you to open the back to change rolls without exposing what is already in the takeup cassette.

Probably more complication than it is worth, but like I said, I thought it was interesting. Wink


PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
As I remember it, the Exakta also had a little built-in cutting knife. You pulled on it and it cut the film just at the take-up cassette lip, so that you could take out the exposed cassette and put in a new empty one ready to continue. It was very popular in medical and lab applications, like photomicrography.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes indeed, however I never tried to use de feature because on my Varex IIb it is stuck (or deliberately fixed by former user?). May be I should try to get it working.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fascinating! The cutting knife feature is ingenious!

Minolfan - You should definitely try to get yours working! I would love to see a photo of it too, if you have one!


PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
What about respooling all your film to 12 exposures (or even less). One thing I like about MF is that even the ones that don't have exchangeable backs, this problem isn't too big since going through 12 or 10 exposures isn't that hard.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I will try to make some pics tomorrow. The little knife is stuck, but except that my Varex is a normal user with Flek, Tessar and BM.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well. it lasted somewhat longer. I didn't get the knife moving, now idea what was the correct way to do. Last sunday I picked up another Varex IIb (http://forum.mflenses.com/what-are-the-biggest-bargains-you-have-found-t27202,start,135.html) with a working knife, so it was clear for me how to handle to get the older one going too (the last coming one got a film and is in test).
So here it is, with cutting knife, Screwed the knob on the bottom lose and pulled down.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just a thought ----- what about a digital camera?? Take whatever pictures you want and then alter them afterwards in photoshop or whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!


PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It was mentioned earlier that 135 backs were made for the Mamiya 645. It's worth noting also that they were made for the Bronica ETR-series and SQ-series. The Bronica ETR is a compact camera, scarcely bigger than your average sized 35mm SLR. I recently won an ETR-Si at an eBay auction -- camera, 80mm lens, prism, and two backs, for $132US. I picked up the Grip E shortly later for about $35, which really made things nice. Point is that this excellent camera, its lenses, and its accessories can be picked up for a small fraction of what they used to cost.

Given that the Rollei 3003 is still going for crazy prices -- Click here to see on Ebay, Click here to see on Ebay -- I'd say looking at cheap medium format outfits like the ETR-series is pretty much a no-brainer if you want to have interchangeable 35mm back capability.
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