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torbod
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 379
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: Must I buy the Samyang 85 1.4? |
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torbod wrote:
Give me your advise. Of course I like shallow DOF, 3D, sharpness and great bokeh. A used Samyang 85 1.4 is available for approximately 200Euro, but I have little to spend right now. I find the price a little bit high but they are rare for Sony. And I really have a craving for the lens since one year.
I have a Biometar MC 80 2.8 that is very nice from f4 and useful from 2.8 (but is a little bit wet and has some CA wide open).
I have a Takumar S-M-C 50 1.4 that is great from f1.4, and absolutely stellar already at 2.8.
So the focal range is covered, but not the aperture with the Biometar.
The aperture is covered but not the focal range with the Takumar.
Will I need to invest in the Samyang 85 1.4, and how would you compare the IQ with the Takumar?
If I had the money right now, I would not hesitate just for fun, but now with a tight budget, do I need to persuit the lens while the opportunity is here or skip the whole thing and stay in love with the Takumar and perhaps go on Samyang hunt when the fundings are back to normal after the summer?
( I know the answer, but tempt me or advise me, haha)
/T
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Last edited by torbod on Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
The Samyan surely is a great lens, but we must not forget that you can get a used (but in good condition) Nikkor-H 1.8/85 for half the price and this lens is at least as good.
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torbod
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 379
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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torbod wrote:
| LucisPictor wrote: |
| The Samyan surely is a great lens, but we must not forget that you can get a used (but in good condition) Nikkor-H 1.8/85 for half the price and this lens is at least as good. |
Interesting. I'm a rookie on Nikkor altogether, is it sharp from 1.8 and is it possible to convert to Sony mount?
/T
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aoleg
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Berlin, DE
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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aoleg wrote:
| LucisPictor wrote: |
| The Samyan surely is a great lens, but we must not forget that you can get a used (but in good condition) Nikkor-H 1.8/85 for half the price and this lens is at least as good. |
The original Nikkor-H 85/1.8 is not multicoated, so its contrast is pretty low. MC versions (Nikkor-H.C. and all-black "K" series) sell for significantly more than 100 EUR.
The Samyang is a design of its own; very well corrected and extremely smooth bokeh, while the Nikkor is a classic Planar design, very similar of CZJ Pancolar 80/1.8. I've seen Rokinon 85/1.4 (same lens) sold new for $229 US, which is less than the 200 EUR mentioned.
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
| aoleg wrote: |
| LucisPictor wrote: |
| The Samyan surely is a great lens, but we must not forget that you can get a used (but in good condition) Nikkor-H 1.8/85 for half the price and this lens is at least as good. |
The original Nikkor-H 85/1.8 is not multicoated, so its contrast is pretty low. MC versions (Nikkor-H.C. and all-black "K" series) sell for significantly more than 100 EUR.
The Samyang is a design of its own; very well corrected and extremely smooth bokeh, while the Nikkor is a classic Planar design, very similar of CZJ Pancolar 80/1.8. I've seen Rokinon 85/1.4 (same lens) sold new for $229 US, which is less than the 200 EUR mentioned. |
+1
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sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 2475
Location: South West UK
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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sichko wrote:
The Samyang is compared with the Nikkor 85 mm f/1.4 D AF in the current edition of Amateur Photography (UK weekly, cover date 26 June 2010). The Nikkor wins (95 vs. 90%) but only because of extra features - AF and metering. However the reviewer, Geoffrey Crawley, writes ...
Technically the Samyang is better. Contrast is higher, it is sharper and vignetting is better controlled.
The Nikkor costs nearly four times as much as the Samyang.
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trifox
Joined: 14 May 2008
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Location: UK
Expire: 2014-05-29
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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trifox wrote:
Ok - I would add one thing...
Samyang is a way.. definitely..
Nikon is a BRAND..
so let's make a choice ...
I have seen some samples from Samyang and this lens is great ... rather than low cost unit..
Shortly - Samyang is a great competitor with no doubt.
tf
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 17633
Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
| aoleg wrote: |
The original Nikkor-H 85/1.8 is not multicoated, so its contrast is pretty low. |
This has never been a problem with my copy!
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 10472
Location: Greece
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
| sichko wrote: |
The Samyang is compared with the Nikkor 85 mm f/1.4 D AF in the current edition of Amateur Photography (UK weekly, cover date 26 June 2010). The Nikkor wins (95 vs. 90%) but only because of extra features - AF and metering. However the reviewer, Geoffrey Crawley, writes ...
Technically the Samyang is better. Contrast is higher, it is sharper and vignetting is better controlled.
The Nikkor costs nearly four times as much as the Samyang. |
+1
based on this review, the Samyang is better for manual focus
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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Location: Thach Alabama
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Big Dawg wrote:
I have the Vivitar version of the Samyang and love it.
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Chris Watson
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
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Location: Fort Worth
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:47 am Post subject: |
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Chris Watson wrote:
I have the Rokinon version of this lens and it's great. The lens is sharp wide open and while it doesn't have "character" to speak of, it does its job and very well. It's my go to lens at dark receptions.
Chris W
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torbod
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 379
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:13 am Post subject: |
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torbod wrote:
Thanx for all feedback.
| aoleg wrote: |
I've seen Rokinon 85/1.4 (same lens) sold new for $229 US, which is less than the 200 EUR mentioned. |
Yes I know that it is much cheaper outside Europe. But I'd rather shop here to avoid customs and VAT expenses. It is not chepaer than at least 260-280 Euro including P&P (Ebay shops in England, Poland and Germany).
Does anyone know a better source in Europe?
/T
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aoleg
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Berlin, DE
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:48 am Post subject: |
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aoleg wrote:
| LucisPictor wrote: |
| aoleg wrote: |
The original Nikkor-H 85/1.8 is not multicoated, so its contrast is pretty low. |
This has never been a problem with my copy! |
Do you ever shoot against the light? In normal lighting conditions (sun behind your back), MC or non-MC has little importance. In contra light, non-MC units, especially with many lens groups, tend to show lower contrast than MC units of the same construction. I used enough pairs of MC/non-MC lenses to support this conclusion, including most Russians and a few Japanese ones.
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:11 am Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
Does it have to be a 1.4?
If not, chrome Jupiter-9 or Tamron 90. The Tamron is sharper but up to a stop slower.
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Spotmatic
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 4045
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Spotmatic wrote:
| torbod wrote: |
Thanx for all feedback.
| aoleg wrote: |
I've seen Rokinon 85/1.4 (same lens) sold new for $229 US, which is less than the 200 EUR mentioned. |
Yes I know that it is much cheaper outside Europe. But I'd rather shop here to avoid customs and VAT expenses. It is not chepaer than at least 260-280 Euro including P&P (Ebay shops in England, Poland and Germany).
Does anyone know a better source in Europe?
/T |
http://www.batterijgrip.nl/epages/62496434.sf/nl_NL/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62496434/Products/LPF85C/SubProducts/lpf85c-0001
Don't know the shop though and they state that the lens is not in stock, but it is 235 euros excl. shipping from The Netherlands.
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My fast 80s: Asahi-Kogaku Takumar 83mm f/1.9 - Super-Takumar 85mm f/1.9 - FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited - Cyclop 85/1.5 (Helios-40 innards) - Komura 80mm f/1.8 - Meyer Görlitz Primoplan 7,5cm 1:1.9 - Carl Zeiss Jena 80mm f/1.8 Pancolar - Canon 85mm f/1.8 S.S.C. - Canon 85mm f/1.2 S.S.C. Aspherical |
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torbod
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 379
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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torbod wrote:
| martinsmith99 wrote: |
Does it have to be a 1.4?
If not, chrome Jupiter-9 or Tamron 90. The Tamron is sharper but up to a stop slower. |
Yes, at least faster than 2.8 and with high IQ. I already have the CZJ Biometar 80 2.8 and a Jupiter 9 with fixed aperture at approximately f/4. Both are superb at slower speeds, but I like stellar results already at 2.8 or faster. Otherwise I'm fully equipped already 
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
| aoleg wrote: |
| LucisPictor wrote: |
| aoleg wrote: |
The original Nikkor-H 85/1.8 is not multicoated, so its contrast is pretty low. |
This has never been a problem with my copy! |
Do you ever shoot against the light? In normal lighting conditions (sun behind your back), MC or non-MC has little importance. In contra light, non-MC units, especially with many lens groups, tend to show lower contrast than MC units of the same construction. I used enough pairs of MC/non-MC lenses to support this conclusion, including most Russians and a few Japanese ones. |
Perhaps. But it also could just be your copy.
Yes, I have shot many photos against light, I love this lens.
Actually, I think the difference between modern multi-coating and single coating is not that bad. There is a huge difference between coated and non-coated lenses, though.
Anyway. Even if contrast was lower with the "H", since I mainly shoot digitally, this is no problem at all. 
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Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1888
Location: New Zealand / USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Scheimpflug wrote:
| aoleg wrote: |
| LucisPictor wrote: |
| The Samyan surely is a great lens, but we must not forget that you can get a used (but in good condition) Nikkor-H 1.8/85 for half the price and this lens is at least as good. |
The original Nikkor-H 85/1.8 is not multicoated, so its contrast is pretty low. MC versions (Nikkor-H.C. and all-black "K" series) sell for significantly more than 100 EUR.
The Samyang is a design of its own; very well corrected and extremely smooth bokeh, while the Nikkor is a classic Planar design, very similar of CZJ Pancolar 80/1.8. I've seen Rokinon 85/1.4 (same lens) sold new for $229 US, which is less than the 200 EUR mentioned. |
Price & contrast aside, how do the two compare in terms of distortion?
One of the biggest complaints for the Samyang is the complex "mustache" distortion... which can only be corrected at the expense of sharpness/resolution and field-of-view. 
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Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
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AhamB
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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AhamB wrote:
@scheimpflug: Aren't you thinking about the Samyang 14mm that has the moustache distortion?
@torbod: If you can get the used Samyang 85/1.4 for 200 euros (or new for 235), get it. This lens has been shown to be at least as sharp as the Canon 85/1.2L at 1.4: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/910168/0#8584386 (scroll down a bit for the 100% crops).
If you don't need AF the Samyang/Rokinon/Vivitar 85/1.4 is the best value for money. Unfortunately no auto aperture though. |
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sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 2475
Location: South West UK
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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sichko wrote:
| Scheimpflug wrote: |
| One of the biggest complaints for the Samyang is the complex "mustache" distortion... which can only be corrected at the expense of sharpness/resolution and field-of-view. |
I think that you must be thinking of the Samyang 14mm.
For the Samyang 85 mm, the AP review quotes a distortion figure of -0.005% (negative figure = barrel distortion) at both 7.5 m and infinity. The Nikon in the same review is reported to be slightly worse ... -0.006%. These numbers are quite small. As Geoffrey Crawley says in the review...
Straight lines appear as they should, even with quite close objects.
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Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1888
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Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Scheimpflug wrote:
| AhamB wrote: |
| @scheimpflug: Aren't you thinking about the Samyang 14mm that has the moustache distortion? |
| sichko wrote: |
| I think that you must be thinking of the Samyang 14mm. |
Doh! Yes, you are both right. 
Sorry about that.
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Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
Tamron: 28/2.8 (Adaptall) Panagor: 28/2.5 (FD) Aetna: 300/5.6 (F) Osawa: MC 28/2.8 (F)
Vintage Lenses: Dallmeyer: 1940s A.M. 14in 356mm f4 (ULF->M42) 1930s Adon Telephoto Taylor, Taylor & Hobson: 1880s Rapid Rectilinear 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 11.31in f/8 (LF->?)
Parts Lenses: Nikon 35-135/3.5-4.5 (F), Sigma 70-210/4.5 (F), Nikon 50/1.8 Series E (F) |
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torbod
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 379
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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torbod wrote:
| AhamB wrote: |
@scheimpflug: Aren't you thinking about the Samyang 14mm that has the moustache distortion?
@torbod: If you can get the used Samyang 85/1.4 for 200 euros (or new for 235), get it. This lens has been shown to be at least as sharp as the Canon 85/1.2L at 1.4: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/910168/0#8584386 (scroll down a bit for the 100% crops).
If you don't need AF the Samyang/Rokinon/Vivitar 85/1.4 is the best value for money. Unfortunately no auto aperture though. |
Thanx, thats a good teaser.
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 17633
Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Nobody said it was a bad lens!
I had the chance to shoot with Henry's copy and I was completely thrilled by the Samyang.
If I didn't have the Nikkor, I would probably go and get a Samyang.
But since I own a Nikkor-H 1.8/85, I do not need one.
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
| AhamB wrote: |
| If you don't need AF the Samyang/Rokinon/Vivitar 85/1.4 is the best value for money. Unfortunately no auto aperture though. |
I can understand the AF adding complexity and cost, but why didn't they include auto aperture? Also, is there any difference between the various brand name sellers other than the name?
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sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 2475
Location: South West UK
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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sichko wrote:
| woodrim wrote: |
| AhamB wrote: |
| If you don't need AF the Samyang/Rokinon/Vivitar 85/1.4 is the best value for money. Unfortunately no auto aperture though. |
...but why didn't they include auto aperture? ...
|
AFAIK the Nikon & Pentax mount versions do have auto-aperture.
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