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The worst of the bunch: Redux
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:51 pm    Post subject: The worst of the bunch: Redux Reply with quote
Oy! I'd read about this a few months back and didn't quite get the full gist of it until today, when I realized Ebay's new pricing structure had recently kicked in (I've been selling a few things on Ebay recently).

Basically, they reduced the listing fee a bit and totally jacked up the Final Value Fee. I found this succinct table on the Ebay Forums:



As you can see, the price hike affects people like us the most, where our items tend to go for anywhere between $50-500.


I just sold a lens for $350 BIN, and between Ebay and Paypal, $47 of that will be exploited in fees. You read that right. $32 in FVF, $15 in Paypal fees. Of course, they're basically the same company, so together, they're taking over 14% in fees.


This is too ridiculous. I've thought about it before, but I think this is the last straw. I've argued that you can probably sell items for 10-15% higher prices on Ebay compared to elsewhere, which still kinda sorta makes it worth it; but not any more. I'd rather that I sell for 10-15% cheaper elsewhere, if the end result is the same net income, and I'd get to feel good that I haven't fed the greedy stomachs of those two companies. It's a shame since I spend so much effort to maintain a standing as an excellent seller on Ebay.


Yahoo Auctions in Japan is 5.25% fixed rate for FVF, insertion fees is practically free for power sellers (up to 99 items per month), and while they do have an equivalent service to Paypal (direct online transfer of money), the fees for that are the responsibility of the *buyers* not the seller. I think that it is a much more balanced way of transactions compared to the Ebay way, which puts too much weight on the sellers.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi rawhead

I fully understand your calculations

and THE DIFF between the EU and ASIAN market ..

EU market is still under power ---

no! I won't tell ya!

Attila knows Smile

EBAY and PAYPAL is the SAME evil == until they die - too much money eaten by them .

The worst thing you unveiled is -- the margin in the range 50-500 Smile

they are B_A_S_T_A_R_D_S = nothing else..

tf


PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Does this mean we will see more private sales on the forum here? Wink


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Scheimpflug wrote:
Does this mean we will see more private sales on the forum here? Wink


Yeah, definitely. And it'll make sense. We're all pretty savvy here. Go onto Ebay, check out the usual selling prices for items we want to sell. Knock off 10% and sell it at that price point. It'll be a sweet deal for both the seller and buyer because they'd both be getting more bang for the buck than transacting on Ebay.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
trifox wrote:

EBAY and PAYPAL is the SAME evil == until they die - too much money eaten by them .

The worst thing you unveiled is -- the margin in the range 50-500 Smile

tf



And until today, I thought that they were kind of a necessary evil, but I'm not even thinking that at this point.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I didn't sell much on ebay, but now it'll be even less!

Thanks for the warning.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rawhead wrote:
Scheimpflug wrote:
Does this mean we will see more private sales on the forum here? Wink


Yeah, definitely. And it'll make sense. We're all pretty savvy here.


Unfortunately, not all items sell here. It is several months that I am offering an excellent 3-cams Summilux-R 1.4/50 with only some paint loss and perfect glass, for 400 Euros, which is between 150 and 200 Euros less than typical Ebay price, so a real bargain, but nobody is really interested. I'll have to forcedly sell it on Ebay.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It seems ebay is a necessary evil. We all use it and all check our pricing there. If there were somewhere else that worked so well...


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
eBay UK is a bit worse: 10% FVF up to £40 max. If you sell a photography item as buy it now then the fees are less but you're likely to get a higher final price in an auction.

Sometimes it's necessary to sell on eBay though as they have such a wide audience. I've tried to sell stuff on forums at a good price and nobody's even replied. I then put it on eBay as buy it now, adding on extra to cover the fees, and it sold within a few hours.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you for posting, this is really quite discouraging. Someone needs to make a competing service, until that happens we are being ripped off.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I buy there but no longer sell... I would rather use Craigs List where the final fee is... ZERO

Doug


PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
They take a lot of money off you, but advertise your product round the world. This can bring in a lot more £££ on its own, so I agree, reluctantly...a necessary evil.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
well ... i was bemoaning exactly about this for awhile now ...

Btw, not only do they rip us off royally, they also investigate your financial data very closely in the name of 'EU anti money laundering'

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:41 pm Post subject:
Make an offer if you think the price is too high!

I'd rather sell here for cheaper and make somebody happy than make more money and pay Twisted Evil bay more fees!!

I've already paid them over €100 NOT counting how much paypal charge me when I get money from the buyer

OK, I can't deny I did make much more money on selling for profit on ebay

but still ...

-> at the end of it all, I paid around €250 to ebay+paypal for all the stuff i sold [insert i wanna kill somebody icon]

And just yesterday I got another jolt from paypal ->

http://forum.mflenses.com/paypal-headache-t29499.html

They asked me for a ton of personal information but "thankfully" I have a verified paypal account so I didn't have to turn my pockets and closets inside out

[/i]


PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree. I prefer to sell lenses to forum members with less profit than pay these excessive fees.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
I agree. I prefer to sell lenses to forum members with less profit than pay these excessive fees.


+1. I prefer selling either here or locally on craigslist. Don't care if final price is less than on eBay; at least I won't have to worry about the fees and fraudulent buyers (eBay is now leaning heavily on the buyers side when applying its buyer/seller protection rules). For this same reason, I buy a lot on eBay.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
aoleg wrote:
+1. (eBay is now leaning heavily on the buyers side when applying its buyer/seller protection rules). For this same reason, I buy a lot on eBay.


+2.

I received two Negative Feedbacks from a buyer who claimed he never received the lenses I posted to London. Even though I provided eBay and PayPal with proof of postage and scans of his signature, eBay maintain that the buyer in this case was telling the truth and refused to remove the Negs...and PayPal of course handed him back his money. F**kers Twisted Evil


PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
aoleg wrote:
no-X wrote:
I agree. I prefer to sell lenses to forum members with less profit than pay these excessive fees.


+1. I prefer selling either here or locally on craigslist. Don't care if final price is less than on eBay; at least I won't have to worry about the fees and fraudulent buyers (eBay is now leaning heavily on the buyers side when applying its buyer/seller protection rules). For this same reason, I buy a lot on eBay.



That's the thing; when they say "seller protection", exactly what are they protecting you from?

I mean, you don't ship the item until the money is in your Paypal account, right?


So at that point, there's really nothing that the seller can do to defraud you.

The *possibility* of the seller being defrauded is introduced *because* of Paypal (not despite it), since Paypal is the only entity that has the power to take the money in your Paypal account (or even money directly from your bank account) to refund the buyer in response to a claim (truthful or fradulent). So I guess what they mean by "seller protection" is that they'll put some effort in verifying that the seller's claim is legitimate before they take your money. Which we all know doesn't happen all the time.

So it's like taking something away and giving it back (sometimes) and calling it a service––and we're supposed to be appreciative of that?


It's like that stupid Delta Air Miles credit card they're advertising these days (sorry non-US members if you don't know what I'm talking about).

You know, the credit card that will give you "free 1st checked luggage"? You know, one of the TWO pieces of luggage that used to be free till just a few years ago?

It's a disgrace.

Now, I'll be lying if I say that I don't appreciate the "buyer protection" that is provided by Ebay/Paypal, so I'll continue to purchase on Ebay.

However, I do fear that as long as Ebay/Paypal continues their way, there will be fewer and fewer sellers, and the place will just become a huge marketplace for Chinese lens caps and mount adapters.
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