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First go with HP5 + Xtol - Kiev 6c, Vega 12 90mm
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:54 pm    Post subject: First go with HP5 + Xtol - Kiev 6c, Vega 12 90mm Reply with quote
This was some of a test roll from my 'new' kiev 6c. It has film spacing issues so the images are cropped on the sides slightly (making 4x5 images). It's a consistent overlap so it should be fairly easy to rectify. HP5@200, Xtol 1:1, Scanned with v700.





PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Eye on second one is stunning, others are too gray to my taste Laughing


PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
others are too gray to my taste


Yes, I noticed this too. I didn't know if it was the development, the film, or the Vega (which is not a contrasty lens, relatively speaking). I flocked the kiev completely. WAY MORE than anyone else would. So contrast should not have been lost there.

I just wanted to present them without contrast adjustments to see what people would say.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't think so lens is a factor in this, I rather beleive film+developer combo.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't think so lens is a factor in this, I rather beleive film+developer combo or/and subject if background was in a large color block without white and black this gray is natural.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
No 2 is the best IMO.

I've not used Xtol so I cannot comment, but this is how HP5 looks when I develope it in either rodinal DDX. I don't mind low contrast as I can add more; too much is a different story.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
or/and subject if background was in a large color block without white and black this gray is natural.


I think so as well. The contrast seems fine - the buckle on the collar is a deep black, while the highlights on the clasp are just barely clipped at white. The histogram shows a nice spread with only a touch of clipping at the ends, so the exposure was good.

I think it was just an unfortunate case where the photo was technically "correct", just without enough separation in the recorded colors to allow the different parts of the scene to stand out against each other... Neutral

About the only thing I can think of to try differently is using color filters on the lens.


Other than the spacing issue, I would say both the photographer and the camera did a fine job! Cool


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I found using xtol gave this long greyscale, not compressed but giving the impression of low contrast. In a way that is a good thing as you get to choose how you want your 'print' to look yourself.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think it's a characteristic of HP5+. I got just the same result using LC29 developer: (BTW, this is a pic of the frost damage to my runner beans last October grrrrrr Laughing)


Last edited by peterqd on Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:27 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
I think it's a characteristic of HP5+. I got just the same using LC29: (BTW, this is a pic of the frost damage to my runner beans last October grrrrrr Laughing)
And October is just around the corner!


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
peterqd wrote:
I think it's a characteristic of HP5+. I got just the same using LC29: (BTW, this is a pic of the frost damage to my runner beans last October grrrrrr Laughing)
And October is just around the corner!

Yea, I know, don't remind me! Smile I can't complain though, because this year I got the beans plants in early - risking frost damage in May - and luckily they survived, so the crop this year has been magnificent.

Back on topic, after several disappointing rolls of HP5+, I've decided FP4+ is going to be my stock B&W film from now on. If I need 400 I'm going to use BW400CN.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It may be that I won't like hp5. I really only bought it because some distributors were selling packs of 2 35mm rolls for around $5. My favorite film, delta 100, is $6 for 1. I HAD to see how hp5 performed in comparison.

I don't like to be using several different films at once so several 120 rolls were bought too...


PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
themoleman342 wrote:
Quote:
others are too gray to my taste


Yes, I noticed this too. I didn't know if it was the development, the film, or the Vega (which is not a contrasty lens, relatively speaking). I flocked the kiev completely. WAY MORE than anyone else would. So contrast should not have been lost there.

I just wanted to present them without contrast adjustments to see what people would say.


I think it is safe to say that the contrast issues being discussed are a result of scanning technique. Whether you realize it or not, your scanning software applied contrast adjustments that distorted the character of the negative.

The algorithms used by scanning software are pretty dumb. That goes for every piece of scanning software I have ever used.

I suggest that you do a little experiment with your Epson Scan software in professional mode.

Make a preview scan of a strip of negatives of different subjects. Open the histogram adjustment window. and look at the histogram for eacn negative. You will probably find the sliders in different locations for each image. Some may have clipping, some may not. Depends on the density and contrast range of the negs, and what random things the algorithms choose to do with them.

If you hit the auto correction button, you will most likely observe clipping in the histogram for nearly all images.

Then choose one neg, preferably one that has clipping. Move the shadow and highlight sliders to eliminate clipping. The result will probably be dark, but will have a full range of highlight and shadow detail. Experiment with how far you move the sliders. You will notice quite dramatic variations in the amount of detail at both ends of the scale, particularly in highlights.

If the image seems excessively dark, open the tonal correction window and drag the middle of the tone curve line up and to the left. You will than have an image that is lighter but somewhat flat. Don't overdo the lightening, as you can correct it with more control in a good image editor.

At this point you should have a somewhat dark, flat scan- which you then finish adjusting in Photoshop.

The controls available in scanning software are rather crude. In the real world, the target for scanning should be to produce files that capture the full tonal range of images at high bit depth, with the really serious work to be done in Photoshop.

Below is an example of what is possible. The preview scan (35mm HP5) looked something like your samples- light and flat A few minutes of work produced this:




PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you John for this deep explanation, it will be a great help to most uf us. I wish to see more pictures from you , you are living at an amazing place!


PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Xtol is great stuff. I'm not an Ilford fan and would have recommended Neopan 400 but it's extinct now.
Sad


Rolleiflex SL-66, 80mm Zeiss Planar, Fuji Neopan 400 rated at 200, developed in Xtol 1:1. Medium yellow filter.


My favorite black and white film is Fuji Acros developed in Xtol 1:1.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Love the Xtol image.

I can still get Neopan 400.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:

I can still get Neopan 400.


In 120? Where? I need some!
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