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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
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Location: Slovenia, EU
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 Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:36 pm Post subject: Mistery lenses collection |
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Pancolart wrote:
Mistery lenses collection
Sorry for bringing this topic to light again. I do it since i accidentally discovered another brother or to say sister lens with the same characteristic and now a small maybe complete collection is formed (highlight being Vivitar of course). All lenses have unique aperture blades design with blades rear part turned upward. Seen on first photo.
These are very small T2 lenses. On 4th photo comparison with also small ASAHI Takumar 3.5/135mm M42 (92mm in height).
My samples are:
Tele-Reflexon 2.8/135mm
Vivitar 1.8/85mm
Weltblick 3.5/135mm = Edixar 3.5/135mm (on photo with M42 adapter)
1:3.5 = 78mm
1:2.8 = 77mm
1:1.8 = 81mm
M42 adapter adds around 7mm (check last photo).
On photos you can see 2.8/135mm and 1.8/85mm have very similar size front glass, where rear part is enormous in Vivitar. All lenses have their blades greasy so i assume that is normal state (i acquired them from different sources) - everything works fine that way - preset lenses.
The closest match for producer is Tamron. if anyone has better idea please share.
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Last edited by Pancolart on Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:09 am; edited 2 times in total |
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 6624
Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
I've got the Vivitar 85/1.8 and an AICO TELEPHOTO 135/3.5 which is identical to your Edixar 135/3.5. My serial number is 67974 which doesn't look too far away from yours 
I also have an absolute monster of an AICO AICOMATIC 200/3.5 with similar focus ring, although it's clearly more modern being auto and having some silvery finish bits (like some of the Soligors). I've never seen anything like that one either, but will post some pics up when I can 
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Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6627
Location: San Francisco, USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
I have a Caspeco just like that 3.5/135
Most if not all the 1960's preset Vivitar primes are of the same design.
I am confident that these all were from the same maker. I suspect Kino/Kiron.
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3693
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Please check if 200mm has also this type of aperture blades. If not we cannot consider it's made from same producer.
It would be cool if serial numbers are same for different brands!
Thank you Shrek and Luis for adding this info.
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
I have the vivitar 85 too. And it's very similar to the Mamiya 2,8/135 TL. And both are very similar to the tokina preset lenses.
The lenses sharing here seem to be made by unique brand, like Luis said. But I put my 2 cents that are tokina ones.
Who win gentlemen? Make your bets .
Rino.
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CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3693
Location: Slovenia, EU
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
But i am not talking pure resemblance here. The aperture design is unique on above samples and can reveal exactly the same producer for sure.
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6627
Location: San Francisco, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
Correct. I am talking about the blades as well as other details that cannot be hidden by cosmetic differences, such as spacing of rings, location of numbers on the focusing scale (which is driven by the diameter and thread of the helical), direction of focus, etc.
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scsambrook
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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Location: Glasgow Scotland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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scsambrook wrote:
Pancolart wrote - "All lenses have their blades greasy so i assume that is normal state"
In almost twentyfive years on the photo retail business I don't ever recall new lenses being shipped with greasy iris blades. If we got new stock delivered with any oil/grease/lubricant (or whatever it might be called) visible, it would have been returned to the supplier as faulty.
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Equipment: Pentax DSLR for casual shooting, Lumix G1 and Fuji XE-1 for playing with old lenses, and Leica M8 because I still like the optical rangefinder system. |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3693
Location: Slovenia, EU
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Those lenses were made before 1970. Only preset can work well with grease on. After the "invention" of auto lenses, the number of blades was reduced and blades had to be clean to work.
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Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1888
Location: New Zealand / USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Scheimpflug wrote:
| luisalegria wrote: |
| Most if not all the 1960's preset Vivitar primes are of the same design. |
I'm not sure when it was made, but my 500/6.3 preset Tele-Vivitar has the same design with the vanes on the blades:
Member "sichko" posted this repair link in the thread about my 500's stiff aperture ring, which has better pictures of the blades:
http://www.pbase.com/pganzel/misc_repairs
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Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers  ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
Tamron: 28/2.8 (Adaptall) Panagor: 28/2.5 (FD) Aetna: 300/5.6 (F) Osawa: MC 28/2.8 (F)
Vintage Lenses: Dallmeyer: 1940s A.M. 14in 356mm f4 (ULF->M42) 1930s Adon Telephoto Taylor, Taylor & Hobson: 1880s Rapid Rectilinear 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 11.31in f/8 (LF->?)
Parts Lenses: Nikon 35-135/3.5-4.5 (F), Sigma 70-210/4.5 (F), Nikon 50/1.8 Series E (F) |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3693
Location: Slovenia, EU
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Splendid finding. This could be a completed series. Is 500mm sharp wide-open?
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Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1888
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Scheimpflug wrote:
| Pancolart wrote: |
| Splendid finding. This could be a completed series. Is 500mm sharp wide-open? |
Couldn't tell you, to be honest. I haven't had a chance to give it a good test since I fixed the aperture, and everything before that was at f/16. 
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Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
Tamron: 28/2.8 (Adaptall) Panagor: 28/2.5 (FD) Aetna: 300/5.6 (F) Osawa: MC 28/2.8 (F)
Vintage Lenses: Dallmeyer: 1940s A.M. 14in 356mm f4 (ULF->M42) 1930s Adon Telephoto Taylor, Taylor & Hobson: 1880s Rapid Rectilinear 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 11.31in f/8 (LF->?)
Parts Lenses: Nikon 35-135/3.5-4.5 (F), Sigma 70-210/4.5 (F), Nikon 50/1.8 Series E (F) |
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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dimitrygo wrote:
| luisalegria wrote: |
| Correct. I am talking about the blades as well as other details that cannot be hidden by cosmetic differences, such as spacing of rings, location of numbers on the focusing scale (which is driven by the diameter and thread of the helical), direction of focus, etc. |
Direction of focus can be changed according to a customer demand. I know some lenses that are clearly made by the same manufacturer but have different focus direction. For example 100/f2.8, its Soligor version turns in Canon fashion but its Vivitar, Hanimar, Beroflex etc. versions turns in Nikon/Pentax fashion. |
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Jeff Zen
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 262
Location: Northwest USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Jeff Zen wrote:
I am reposting the pictures of my old Vivitar Preset 200mm f3.5 here because because it does fit right in with your mystery lens collection.
I am very intrigued seeing the little brothers to my lens and wonder how they perform. The 200mm is a decent lens.
I vote for Kino-Kiron as manufacturer, but will we ever know for sure!?
If you want this one I might be interested in trading something.
 |
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martyn_bannister
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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martyn_bannister wrote:
In a similar vein, I have seen a couple of lenses where the blades are "ninja" hooks at the end. I have yet to try the effect on the bokeh. This only apparent when close to wide open. When stopped down further they appear as a normal aperture.
I think these "ninja" lenses have been mentioned before, but the search appears to be broken again and I can't find the thread. |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Sorry Martyn nothing ninja about those . It's a different distiction if you look at the blades root it has been turned upward. These are all T2 lenses.
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 7785
Location: Ironbridge. UK.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
Just to add to this topic. Here's a Dollonds S 200 / 3.5 that has the same aperture blades, and is obviously the same as the Vivitar above.
The best information I've found so far indicates it's a Tokina built lens ?
It's a very good lens, whoever made it.
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
No Tokina I know of has that diaphragm mechanism.
There are also well known Tokina lenses in this range, its unlikely they would have made a one off design like this in parallel with their usual products.
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 7785
Location: Ironbridge. UK.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
Luis, you might be right.
Gary, SonicScot, posted a link to an ebay sale for a ludicrously priced Russian arial lens -
http://forum.mflenses.com/ideal-lens-for-a7r-t62245.html
and the ebay link here-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221217846891
If you look at the pictures of the aperture in this lens they look remarkably like the ones in the "Made in Japan" Dollands / Vivitar 200 - and, the body shape and size does bear "some" resemblance. It's the same shape and 6 inches long. But it would be pushing it to say the lens itself has any connecting heritage. But how about the aperture blades? The body is a similar size and the blades are so much alike if not the same, they have that folded edge?
It's the only other lens I've seen this kind of aperture blade. The Russian lens has a logo of KOMZ, Kazan Optical & Mechanical Factory. Is it their aperture?
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
I suspect its from some European cine lens.
The design is not unique, just not used by most of the Japanese manufacturers of the 1950's-60's.
The mechanism in short uses the turned up edge as the linkage to a slot milled in the moving ring instead of the peg in the blade that was typical.
The shape of the lens barrel is not terribly significant I would think. It may be the result of the extreme telephoto formula this thing uses. I don't know what that Russian lens uses but it may be for the same reason.
Your lens is identical to the 200/3.5 in the Vivitar preset lens line of the 1960's. I had one of these, sent it to Big Dawg.
Other lenses of the extensive Vivitar preset lens line have the same aperture mechanism - I have a 300/5.5 like this for instance - but all have different optical arrangements.
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I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 7785
Location: Ironbridge. UK.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
As an engineer, I like that aperture mechanism, It's a simple and elegant solution, and one that looks robust, due to that simplicity. It's clearly visible in the Dollands / Vivitar.
My thoughts about the similar size were that someone was knocking these apertures out as a standard part and then supplying them to whoever wanted them, maybe KOMZ?
I think it was Big Dawg who identified the Vivitar as a Tokina?
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LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011
Posts: 1998
Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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BurstMox wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks the same on Jupiter-6
You can check here : http://www.ebay.fr/itm/JUPITER-6-2-black-Rare-2-8-180mm-Mx42-Zenit-Canon-EOS-/200597797608 (aperture blades are visible on last photo)
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sovietlenses.fr
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 2926
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:25 am Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Used to have the Vivitar 85mm, but mine was very soft wide open. |
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raay04
Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 340
Location: India
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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raay04 wrote:
I have seen similar aperture mechanism style in KOMZ made Jupiter 37
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3693
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
No, no, don't mix russians in this story . Japan upward blades lens series are very different.
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The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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