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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:05 pm Post subject: Wollensak 21.25 inch f10 Apochromatic Raptar |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Hi folks
I spotted this unusual huge lens on ebay and as there were no bidders I decided to grab it, cost 10ukp plus 15 shipping.
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WOLLENSAK 21 AND A QUARTER INCH f/10 APOCHROMATIC
RAPTAR No D99299
541.2 ON BOTTOM LENS ALSO HAS WOLLENSAK ROCHESTER U.S.A |
Hard to find any info on this lens, the 541.2 refers to the precise focal length in millimetres.
I don't know why it has that large cast iron mount with 90 degree mirror, I'm guessing it's from some large piece of equipment but god knows what!
Anyone seen anything like this before and got any idea what it might be from?
It's the lens I'm interested in, I'll remove it from the mount to use on my NEX and EOS, but god knows how I will mount this huge beast!
I'm wondering what the register will be, I have a nasty feeling it may need to be mounted 541.2mm from the sensor which means a piece of plastic drainpipe and a rather unwieldy telescope, but hey, a 540mm Apochromatic lens isn't cheap and this one was 25ukp so it should be well worth the effort to convert.
_________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Seele
Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 741 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Seele wrote:
This is a process lens for making colour separations from original artwork, this explains it being apochromatic, marked with precise focal length, and the reversing prism. |
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Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 1888 Location: New Zealand / USA
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Scheimpflug wrote:
Wow, that is a beast!
How much does it weigh, now that it is out of the frame?
You're building up quite a backlog of huge lenses to test. _________________ Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
Tamron: 28/2.8 (Adaptall) Panagor: 28/2.5 (FD) Aetna: 300/5.6 (F) Osawa: MC 28/2.8 (F)
Vintage Lenses: Dallmeyer: 1940s A.M. 14in 356mm f4 (ULF->M42) 1930s Adon Telephoto Taylor, Taylor & Hobson: 1880s Rapid Rectilinear 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 11.31in f/8 (LF->?)
Parts Lenses: Nikon 35-135/3.5-4.5 (F), Sigma 70-210/4.5 (F), Nikon 50/1.8 Series E (F) |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Thanks Seele.
I haven't taken it out of the frame yet, i will do so and weigh it, I think it's at least 800g, maybe a kilo.
Anyone got any idea if it will work as a camera lens if mounted on a long enough tube? _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 1888 Location: New Zealand / USA
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:27 am Post subject: |
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Scheimpflug wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Anyone got any idea if it will work as a camera lens if mounted on a long enough tube? |
Don't see any reason why not! Being a process lens, it will be optimized for close reproduction ratios (1:1?), not infinity. But it would only take a few quick experiments to see how it performs at the longer distances.
For the tube, it's going to be a LONG tube. I think the length should be just a bit more than my 500/5.6 Vivitar preset, a non-telephoto "long-tube" lens design. Lenses this long are a bit tricky to shoot - plan on having a heavy-duty tripod!
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/Scheimpflug/SLR%20Lenses/Vivitar%20500mm%20f6%203/DSC05897-resized.jpg
I'm trying to think of how you could test this one easily... two slip-fit pieces of PVC pipe might be the best option, to get a mount and focusing abilities. You'll probably spend more on the pipe than the lens though! _________________ Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
Tamron: 28/2.8 (Adaptall) Panagor: 28/2.5 (FD) Aetna: 300/5.6 (F) Osawa: MC 28/2.8 (F)
Vintage Lenses: Dallmeyer: 1940s A.M. 14in 356mm f4 (ULF->M42) 1930s Adon Telephoto Taylor, Taylor & Hobson: 1880s Rapid Rectilinear 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 11.31in f/8 (LF->?)
Parts Lenses: Nikon 35-135/3.5-4.5 (F), Sigma 70-210/4.5 (F), Nikon 50/1.8 Series E (F) |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6950 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:03 am Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
Now you see why you were the only bidder. _________________ Casual attendance these days |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:32 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Thanks for the tips, that Vivitar is a beast!
I actually have a 8/500 sat here that I will never use again, low IQ cheap tube type, I was thinking I could use that to remount the Raptar.
It will be a challenge to get it working but I like a challenge! _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:09 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Well, I finally got the lens out of the mount/prism. I had to drill out the three retaining grub screws that held on a square metal plate, the Raptar is actually quite small and light for what it is.
I removed the glass from that cheapo 8/500 and stuck the Raptar in the end, just held in place with some gaffer tape for the time being.
It's not long enough, I'm guessing the lens needs to be 541.2mm from the sensor, making this mount a good 6 inches too short...
Back to the drawing board to figure out the best way to extend it!
This is going to be a cumbersome beast, let's just hope when it's done, the IQ will prove good enough to have been worth the hassle!
Large format users are very fond of these Apo-Raptars, despite them not being optimised for infinity so I have hopes it will be a good performer. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Well, I had a eureka moment and decided to strap a set of M42 bellows on the back of the modified 500mm tube and I was correct, the tube was too short.
This is a terrible shot but best I could manage in the brief time I had (about to go to work) and it does prove that this lens will work.
So now I need to complete the work of moutning this beast permanently, I will then try it out on some better subjects. I don't see any CA, which is a good thing, guess that's to be expected with an apochromatic lens?
I did find a diagram of the Apo-Raptar's optical scheme but precious little else in the way of info:
_________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Willem
Joined: 08 Jun 2011 Posts: 280 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Willem wrote:
Love this sort of project! _________________
www.willemvs.wordpress.com
Canon EOS 500D, Canon Powershot SX10IS, 2 x Asahi Pentax spotmatic F, iPod touch
AF lenses:
Canon 18-55 kit lens, Canon 1.8/50mm, Canon EF 85 1.8 USM, Canon EF-S 10-22
MF lenses:
SMC Takumar 1.8/55 (2x)
S-M-C Takumars 3.5/24, 3.5/28, 3.5/35, 4/50 Macro, 4/100 Macro, 2.5/135 (v2), 4/200
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Thanks Willem, I hope to have more time to fiddle with this contraption soon and show you some pics of the beast itself, however, I don't have a day off this week so might not be till next week. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 1888 Location: New Zealand / USA
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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Scheimpflug wrote:
Any updates? _________________ Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
Tamron: 28/2.8 (Adaptall) Panagor: 28/2.5 (FD) Aetna: 300/5.6 (F) Osawa: MC 28/2.8 (F)
Vintage Lenses: Dallmeyer: 1940s A.M. 14in 356mm f4 (ULF->M42) 1930s Adon Telephoto Taylor, Taylor & Hobson: 1880s Rapid Rectilinear 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 11.31in f/8 (LF->?)
Parts Lenses: Nikon 35-135/3.5-4.5 (F), Sigma 70-210/4.5 (F), Nikon 50/1.8 Series E (F) |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Not quite, the lens is remounted and ready to rock, but been working too much overtime and weather been too bad, will try it asap. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Well, I finally got an opportunity to try this lens out.
I'm impressed with it, sharp and no CA. These were wide open at f10.
100% crop:
Stitched Panorama:
100% crop:
Another stitched image:
_________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7786 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
That's impressive Ian. _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Cheers, now I'm on the lookout for a 36inch version! _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7786 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
Will Millom be getting a demonic camera obscura then ? _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Hehe, no but it will be seeing me dragging around a 3 foot length of drainpipe attached to a camera... _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 6622 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
The lack of CA is brilliant! Not sure how convenient it is as a walkaround lens though _________________ Graham - Moderator
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:14 am Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
Brilliant shot ! _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:15 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
The apochromatic tag really does apply here, which is very pleasing, I now want to collect more apochromatic process lenses.
Not a chance of handhold this thing, and it was a challenge shooting it on my rickety old tripod, I'm very surprised I didn't have a problem with camera shake. I forget what shutter speeds I used now, but I did turn the ISO up (6400 I think) hence the graininess. I wouldn't need to use such high ISo in better light, it was getting dark when I took these pics.
For 25 quid plus about a tenner for the 8/500 crap lens I cannibalized I think this is a bit of a bargain, an apochromatic extreme telephoto is rather more expensive. Only cheapo apo tele I can think of is the Sigma 400mm and that is a very unreliable lens judging by how many faulty ones turn up on ebay. I doubt AF would be very useful with such a long lens and f10 is fast enough with the good high ISO performance of my NEX so all in all, I don't feel I'm missing out on much by using this in lieu of a very expensive long apo lens.
Just out of interest, how much would a 500-600mm apochromatic telephoto cost me these days? _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:19 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
luisalegria wrote: |
Brilliant shot ! |
Many thanks Luis, for a first attempt I was over the moon at how they turned out, I will try to make time to try some more shots with her. I need to fit a large hoodas the front element isn't recessed at all and I suspect this lens is uncoated.
I should try to find a bird to shoot, although most have flown south at this time of year.
I've bought a much sturdier Velbon tripod I'm hoping will arrive tomorrow, that should be far more suitable for this monster lens.
I hope I haven't just put up the price of old apochromatic process lenses, this thread has a lot of views. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Kathmandu
Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 1479 Location: (Kathmandu,Nepal. Currently)Pacific Northwest, USA
Expire: 2012-04-08
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Kathmandu wrote:
Looks like an interesting lens. _________________ kathmandu
Sony α 700 DSLR
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danfromm
Joined: 04 Sep 2011 Posts: 585
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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danfromm wrote:
Ian, dialyte type process lenses -- that's what your Apo Raptar is -- are well known in the on-line large format community. Although usually optimized for 1:1, they hold their corrections very well at all distances.
Goerz (at the very end, Schneider) Apo Artar; Schneider Repro-Claron; most Rodenstock Apo-Ronars; some, not all, Apo Nikkors (there are also Tessar type Apo Nikkors); and Wray Apo Lustrar are all dialyte type process lenses. Reports on all but Apo Lustrars are very positive. At one time Rodenstock propaganda asserted that long Apo Ronars performed better than any large format telephoto lenses. This is no longer true, modern LF teles are better but much more expensive.
There are also Tessar type process lenses. Reports on CZJ Apo-Tessars, Industar-11 M (one name, many focal lengths), and TTH Apotals (also TTH and Cooke badged "Copying Lens") are all very good. I have one each Apotal, Cooke Copying Lens, TTH Copying Lens; all are very good.
Heliar types? Voigtlaender Apo Skopar, Boyer Apo Saphir. I'm a fan of Apo Saphirs but dialyte type Apo Nikkors are better at apertures larger than f/16. Lighter, too.
More complex? Konica Hexanon GRII, not all the same design. Very sharp, a little flary. CZJ/Docter Apo Germinar. Rodenstock Apo Gerogon. LOMO RF-2, -3, -4, -5. Schneider G-Claron. All well regarded. Some of the longer Apo Ronars have > 4 elements; all get good reports.
Questionable? Nikon Process Nikkor. WA G-Claron. It seems that (relatively) wide angle 4/4 double Gauss types optimized for 1:1 don't hold their corrections well at distance.
Beware, some of these lenses are very heavy. In particular, longer Klimsch Apo-Ronars (my 600/9 weighed 3.3 kg) and Apo Saphirs (my 900/10 weighs a little over 4 kg)
With most of these lenses, central image sharpness is better around 1 stop down from wide open, declines after that. Stopping down farther improves edge sharpness; not a benefit for small chip digital cameras or even medium format film cameras like my 2x3ers. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Thanks for that info Dan, I have my eye on a 47.5 inch red dot Artar...
I have found that wide open, the sharpness of this Raptar is merely good, down two stops to f22 and it's very sharp. Contrast is low but easy to fix in Photoshop, I need to make a hood for it, it has no threads so I will adapt a rubber sink plunger as I have with some other odd lenses.
This is how I am using it atm, on a rickety old tripod with a set of bellows on the back to enable focusing. There is a helicoid in the stripped 500mm lens but the tube needs extending about 6 inches, so until I add more tube I'm using the bellows to get the required extension and I really like the ease of focus the bellows gives.
I removed the glass and aperture blades from that crappy Hanimex 8/500 long lens and stuck the Raptar in the front, crude but it does the job.
_________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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