Kodakchrome Cross-processing Experiemtn

[David]

After FINALLY finishing 36 shots of Kodachrome, expired in 1996, I cross-processed it with a new roll of Kodak Gold 400. The Kodachrome 64 has not been in my camera that long. I got it as part of an auction two months ago and began shooting it before I learned no one develops it anymore.

I felt certain -- certain -- the experiment would fail when the developer poured out yellow after eight minutes. However, a quick look at the negatives shows actual images. They're drying now, followed by cutting and scanning. I'm hoping to have some results to post tonight or tomorrow.

[David]

AGH! I don't think I left the Kodachrome negatives in the fixed for long enough. Last night I could see through them with a flashlight. But I couldn't scan them. Today I literally just pressed the negatives against a fluorescent light and all I could see was blackness. I left the negatives in there for more than 10 minutes. How long do slide negatives need to be fixed for?

[Scheimpflug]

*** Get them back into the fixer ASAP! ***

[Scheimpflug]

... and for the slow-to-type part:

Some films can take a really long time to fix. I don't know enough about chemistry to tell you why... I wish I did. I have some 70's Kodak color aerial film that takes over 50 minutes to clear!

If you're lucky, and get them back into the fixer, you can halt the changes before it gets any worse. The bright lights of the scanning might have done significant damage, but you might still be able to pull some results.

I have some negatives that a lab developed, which my parents shot over 25 years ago but never developed because the sprockets had torn after just a few shots. I had them developed, but the lab said "zero pictures" and returned the uncut "blank" roll. You can see where the leader was, but otherwise can't see *anything* under a light, even with a loupe... but I *knew* there must be *something* there. On my scanner, I was able to pull four usable photos off of it. Nothing great, no color, and grainy as heck. But good enough that my parents can still tell you who all the people are, and identify objects in the room! I've been meaning to post these as an example of why film is so great - I'll have to do that soon.


If the photos were important, and you'd like me to take a crack at scanning them, let me know. I'd be happy to help. A single roll of film in a plastic container should be pretty cheap to mail (I'm in the USA for a while now).

[David]

I left the negatives at work but have to go back tonight anyway, so I'll bring them back, drop them in fixer for 30 more minutes, and see if that helps. If so, I'll take one of the strips and bleach it to see if that helps. If not, I'll send what remains your way for some experimentation.

[marty]

Hi, there. The "blackness" is likely to be the "remjet" anti-halo backing which needs to be removed as part of the K-14 process by means of a dissolving solution. No clue about what this chemical could be. If you find a way to remove the remjet what you could hope to get is just a BW negative of some sort, since in K-14 the dyes are not embedded in the emulsion but rather contained in the developing agents. Try browse here http://www.apug.org/forums/forum205/85529-kodachrome-type-film-formula.html, you might find some formula to dissolve the r/j.
Good luck.

Best, M.

[David]

Some of that makes sense. I re-fixed the strips last night. Some for three hours, others for six while I slept. The images are lighter now. Interestingly, to minimize fixer use, I used a flat tray for the soak. To prevent ruining a perfectly good baking tray, I lines it with aluminum. Where the emulsion touched the aluminum and had fixer on it, the film is much lighter. So I suspect that fixer provided a pathway for the silver halide to pass to the aluminum. Perhaps an electrolytic reaction of some sort?

There's a bleaching process that removes remjet, but I think I need to also scrub it off somehow. These photos are going to be very grungy, but totally worth it, I think. Maybe they'll even look intentionally artistic.

[Lloydy]

my only processing experience is with Ektachrome many years ago, I have no understanding of the chemical process at all, I did it by following the instructions and nothing else. But I'm fascinated to see if you get something from these films. I hope you do.

[David]

I have some intriguing results. Chlorine bleach decimates remjet. It also decimates silver halide, though less quickly. I used a mix of about 0.5oz bleach to a liter of water and within 15 minutes the water was filled with black, floating bits of remjet. However, only one negative (the one on the bottom of the bowl where the bleach settled, was effected. So later this weekend I'm going to fill a spray bottle with a VERY mild bleach solution, spray the negatives, and remove the remjet by massaging them (gloved fingers of course.) The results are going to be scratched, grainy, and imperfect, but this is just an experiment, or emperiemtn, as the title says.

[David]

HUZZAH! Allow me to write a brief paean for chlorine.

Chlorine, collar-lipstick remover, pool-accident dissolver, you make for us whitened linens which smell of sterility, and for that, we cherish you.
Chlorine, your one job is to kill, you hitman of stains, microbe genocider, and for that we love you.
Chlorine, you don't like ammonia (but that's okay, we still like you.)
Chlorine, you sting like harsh words, burn my eyes and nose like a sandstorm, and for that we adore you.
Chlorine, you remove remjet (and negative images, too, if we lets you) but with planning and care you preserve some of my Kodakchrome negatives, and for that, you are lovely.

In short, the bleach worked. I lost two or three shots in their entirety, and 12 shots lost their margins, but about 12 or 15 shots turned out. The negatives are drying now and I'll scan the results and post them in a separate thread when they dry.

[Scheimpflug]

Congratulations! I look forward to seeing the results.

[Lloydy]

I just stumbled across this on Flickr from the very talented eyetwist.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyetwist/

Maybe there's some magic to be gleaned there ? Go down to the B&W pictures.