Using B&W film expired by 35+ years?

[Scheimpflug]

I'm contemplating picking up some B&W film which is a good 35 years past its expiration date. It is mostly all very low speed film (ISO 25). I could get a good deal, but I would have to buy a pretty big batch of it.


A few preliminary questions before I close the deal:

* Does B&W film age better or worse than color film? (I'm thinking yes, since it doesn't have the color shift issues... but perhaps fogging is just as bad?)

* Would being a slow film help my chances of it being usable, or would expired high-ISO film be better?

* Am I correct that I would probably need a few extra stops of exposure, along with longer development times to compensate for the aging?

* With the film being wound in cassettes for this long, would film flatness be an issue in the camera, and would it be problematic while developing? (any suggestions on how to handle this?)


... and finally, assuming that it hasn't been properly stored, and just going on a gut feeling, do you think the film would be any good, or would it be a big waste of time & money?

[TBaker]

Is there any chance on getting one test roll?

[Scheimpflug]

I could, but it would be pretty expensive since it would be coming from overseas. You really have to buy 20+ rolls at once to keep the shipping reasonable (in terms of cost per roll).

Plus, by the time it made it here and I had a chance to shoot & develop it, the rest would probably be gone.

[Attila]

I did use one times Fortepan 100 B&W film expired long time ago, storage was unknown. Result was garbage , contrast was very low , no black,no white just gray everywhere.

I bought some old film and I did put them into freezer to store them properly as I do usually with film. I sent one roll to my friend Bill (Katastropho) to try it out, he did reported to me film was fragile and film did broke when he did try to load.

Based on this experience , sound is not so good for you , finger crossed to bet getter result. Longest expired film what I did use and come out nicely it was Astia 100 slide film expired 10 yrs ago. I think it was cold stored properly.

[F16SUNSHINE]

Considering the potential pitfalls I think you should pass.
Reticulation is likely going to be the worste issue.
That old emulation is not going to be happy getting wet and then drying out again.
My try with some nearly 30yo film was a flop in this way.
Low contrast was also an issue.
As if the film had been fogged.

[Scheimpflug]

Thanks everyone.

I think I should have mentioned - I'm not necessarily after perfect results, so a little bit of "character" from the age of the film would be fine. But certainly I would need an image that is at least somewhat usable... otherwise it wouldn't be worth it.


Also, could you explain a bit more about what you mean by reticulation? I did a search, and I find a lot of results about people giving film extreme temperature changes to try to get the emulsion to crack? Would the thickness of the film base and/or the thickness of the emulsion have an influence on how problematic this would be?

... and are you thinking it would crack during the development, or when it was in the camera?

Thanks again for the advice.

[Attila]

It was crack at loading, I think a carefully subject selection will help to get better result. In case of you I try to shoot only closer distance up to 10m with old film and rich texture items like white rocks, bricks , wood etc.

[F16SUNSHINE]

During development is what I meant .
At least that is what I experienced.
The emulation looked like it separated from the base, shrunk a bit, and the laid back down.
I'm not certain that is what happened but... that's what it looked like.

[F16SUNSHINE]

Maybe you could control the reticulation through very careful development I'm not sure.
The lack of ANY highlights is just as bad of an issue.
Again this was my experience. If the film you are buying was frozen it may be fine.
Fogging after all these years is a real concern.
Not a certain one though. There have been some interesting cases of old film that was long exposed being developed decades later with success.
Google Vivian Mayer. Or look for the thread here on MFL.

[TenOx]

Old BW film stored well should do pretty well, but faster film will fog more quickly in storage. I think it's worth it if you're paying like 25% of the cost of new film, or less and they at least give lip service to having stored the film well (cool, cold, frozen even!)

[cooltouch]

I still have about a dozen rolls of Kodak Plus X (ISO 125) with a 1983 expiration date that has been frozen ever since expiration. Not quite 35 years, but 28 is still getting up there.

I've been slowly working through it. When I first started using it a couple years ago, it seems its performance was closer to normal than it has been lately. The most recent roll I shot was exposed normally and developed normally, but the negatives came out very thin. I'm not an expert at reading negatives and I can't tell you if they were underexposed or underdeveloped -- maybe both, but next time I plan to reduce the ISO to about 80 and add time to the development. Even so, with some work in post processing, the images were still usable.

Canon IIIa rangefinder, 50mm f/1.8 Serenar



Same camera and lens, but an earlier roll where the negatives had more density



The film itself is a bit stiff and tends to cup some. It doesn't lay flat like a fresher negative does. This might be a problem if you want to scan your negatives because the center part of them will be at a noticeably different height than the edges that are held by the film holder. Not a problem for me because I duplicate them with a slide duplicator's roll-film stage, which holds them flat. After duping the negs I reverse them in software.

So, anyway, I'd say that if this 35yo film has been kept frozen for 35 years, you're probably okay but you may need to modify your ISO and/or developing times to get best results.

[Attila]

Welcome TenOX!

I look forward your film shoots in Galleries!

[Nesster]

My brother-in-law found a roll of Tri-X that he'd shot in the 70s, and since then the exposed film lay around a New York City apartment - no air conditioning in summer - until last year.

I developed it normally in Xtol full strength. The photos came out OK, not worse for wear, with decent contrast etc. Here's a sample


Foonie, in the 70s by Nesster, on Flickr

[Attila]

[TenOx]