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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 8979
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:47 am Post subject: MTO Mirror with corrosion! |
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mo wrote:
Click here to see on Ebay
At $99au I am unsure if this is a deal with the lens in this condition.What do you think......Just paint loss or it is worthless?
_________________
Moira, Moderator 
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
Canon FL 58/1.2,Canon FL85/1.8,Canon FL 100/3.5,Canon SSC 2.8/100 ,Konica AR 100/2.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5
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Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1888
Location: New Zealand / USA
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:29 am Post subject: |
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Scheimpflug wrote:
| ebay wrote: |
RUSSIAN
MTO-1000
10.5/1100 N8 12860
reflex lens, USED ON PRACTICA, SEE PICTURE
IT HAS BEEN USED AND HAS SOME COROSION ON ONE SIDE
BUT STILL IN WORKING CONDITION
T9GsOscBMhNfkV4kQ~~_12.JPG)
+V3cib0BMhNf2Bfyw~~_12.JPG) |
The corrosion looks to be very localized, but also very severe... I wonder if it sat in water?  There is no way that this is just paint loss...
I also don't see any mention of it coming with the filter set... You can see an example of a full kit in great condition here: http://forum.mflenses.com/sold-mc-mto-11ca-10-1000-and-mto-1000a-10-5-1100-as-new-t29234.html
Dunno if it is worth it... it seems to be a bit risky, and "BUT STILL IN WORKING CONDITION" doesn't really give one a lot of confidence... but that being said it seems to be a good price (half the price of a good kit with the filters?)...
_________________
Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers  ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
Tamron: 28/2.8 (Adaptall) Panagor: 28/2.5 (FD) Aetna: 300/5.6 (F) Osawa: MC 28/2.8 (F)
Vintage Lenses: Dallmeyer: 1940s A.M. 14in 356mm f4 (ULF->M42) 1930s Adon Telephoto Taylor, Taylor & Hobson: 1880s Rapid Rectilinear 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 11.31in f/8 (LF->?)
Parts Lenses: Nikon 35-135/3.5-4.5 (F), Sigma 70-210/4.5 (F), Nikon 50/1.8 Series E (F) |
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martyn_bannister
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:34 am Post subject: Re: MTO Mirror with corrosion! |
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martyn_bannister wrote:
| mo wrote: |
Click here to see on Ebay
At $99au I am unsure if this is a deal with the lens in this condition.What do you think......Just paint loss or it is worthless? |
I have one and my copy isn't pin sharp at infinity, even after cleaning all the fungus off it. See HERE for some samples.
They are battleship construction (and weight!) though, so it all depends on the condition of the optics and whether you want to take the chance I suppose. |
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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 8979
Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:10 am Post subject: |
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mo wrote:
I just Know metal and corrosion usually means a bad out come...that's why I thought to ask you experts for opinions first...  I did not know about the filters though 
_________________
Moira, Moderator
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
Canon FL 58/1.2,Canon FL85/1.8,Canon FL 100/3.5,Canon SSC 2.8/100 ,Konica AR 100/2.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5
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martyn_bannister
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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martyn_bannister wrote:
| mo wrote: |
| I just Know metal and corrosion usually means a bad out come...that's why I thought to ask you experts for opinions first... I did not know about the filters though |
Just for reference, the filters and the case are not inconsiderable pieces of kit and finding them alone (should you want to) would I think be very difficult.
FWIW, I think the body is brass (as are the filter rings!), so as long as the corrosion hasn't affected the optics, I think you have a better chance of resurrecting this lens than if the body was aluminium. |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10778
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
This lens looks corroded on the outside body while the insides look clean; the mirror coating is probably okay, maybe not.
10.5/1100 lens needs a sturdy tripod or lots of light. I do mean sturdy! I have to use a tripod used for medium format camera with mirror lockup and remote release, because the mirror flip vibration causes blur at typical shutter speeds.
Depending on the focus ring travel, focusing can be difficult because dof even at long distances (even 10km!) is so narrow. Then there is the 10 meters closest focus distance.
Needless to say, people do work around these limitations and produce fine images using these lenses.
f/10.5 is a bit slow for astrophotography, unless a tracking mount is used. Great moon photos are possible.
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☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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martyn_bannister
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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martyn_bannister wrote:
| visualopsins wrote: |
This lens looks corroded on the outside body while the insides look clean; the mirror coating is probably okay, maybe not.
10.5/1100 lens needs a sturdy tripod or lots of light. I do mean sturdy! I have to use a tripod used for medium format camera with mirror lockup and remote release, because the mirror flip vibration causes blur at typical shutter speeds.
Depending on the focus ring travel, focusing can be difficult because dof even at long distances (even 10km!) is so narrow. Then there is the 10 meters closest focus distance.
Needless to say, people do work around these limitations and produce fine images using these lenses.
f/10.5 is a bit slow for astrophotography, unless a tracking mount is used. Great moon photos are possible. |
+1 to all of this, although I haven't managed to take a good moon shot with mine yet. Could be me, or the focus issue, not sure  |
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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 8979
Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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mo wrote:
So the main issue would be not having the filters?
I have a 2nd tripod an older velbon solid aluminum...I don't use it, for the fact it is very heavy 
_________________
Moira, Moderator
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
Canon FL 58/1.2,Canon FL85/1.8,Canon FL 100/3.5,Canon SSC 2.8/100 ,Konica AR 100/2.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5
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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 2463
Location: NC, USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:12 am Post subject: |
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walter g wrote:
My guess is it was in the case and got wet. All corrosion is on the same side even in the knurls.I would have to see better pics to even consider such a lens. Rear pic could be mold on the lens no way to tell.
I personally think it's on the high side. It might be 50% of the going price but it's missing 50% of what's normally included. Plus the damage.
_________________
Main cameras
Panasonic G5,Nikon J1,Pentax Q10,Sony Nex 6
Minolta MC W SI 2.5/28, MD 2.8/28, MC W SG 3.5/28, MC Celtic 3.5/28, MC W HG 2.8/35, MD Celtic 2.8/35, QE 4/35, Rokkor X 2/45, MC Rokkor X PG 1.4/50, MC Rokkor X PG 1.7/50, MD Rokkor X 1.7/50, MD 2/50, MC Rokkor PF 1.7/55, MC Rokkor PF 1.9/55, Auto Tele Rokkor PG 2.8/135, MC Tele Rokkor QD 3.5/135, TC 4/135, MC Celtic 4/200, MC Tele Rokkor PE 4.5/200
MD 28-70 f3.5-4.8, MD Macro 35-70 f3.5, Md 70-210 f4, MD Rokkor X 75-200 f4.5, MD 100-200 f5.6
Nikon Nikkor 4/20, O Auto 2/35, S Auto 1.4/50..... Miranda Auto 2.8/28, Auto 2.8/35, Auto 1.4/50, Auto EC 1.4/50, Auto 1.8/50, Auto EC 1.8/50,Auto 1.9/50, Auto 3.5/135
Various Soligor,Sun,Fujita,Komura,Spitatone, etc. Lenses
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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 8979
Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:10 am Post subject: |
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mo wrote:
I think I will give this a miss too many unknowns.Thanks for your input
_________________
Moira, Moderator
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
Canon FL 58/1.2,Canon FL85/1.8,Canon FL 100/3.5,Canon SSC 2.8/100 ,Konica AR 100/2.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5
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Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1888
Location: New Zealand / USA
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:40 am Post subject: |
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Scheimpflug wrote:
| mo wrote: |
| I think I will give this a miss too many unknowns.Thanks for your input |
mo - is it close enough that you could go check it out in person?
Based on what others have said, it sounds to me like the biggest risk factor is the condition of the mirror. So if you could verify that the mirror is OK, and you don't mind the cosmetics, then it wouldn't be too bad.... or perhaps you could even offer a lower price.
I think (correct me if I am wrong) that the filters would only be an issue if you shot B&W film, and the lack of a case & instructions would only set you back if you wanted to re-sell it. You would have to find or make another case to protect it while carrying it around, but that wouldn't be too hard.
So if you just want a "user" lens for your DSLR, and don't care about the appearance or the resale value, it might still be a good option. It would just all depend on the condition of the mirror....
_________________
Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
Tamron: 28/2.8 (Adaptall) Panagor: 28/2.5 (FD) Aetna: 300/5.6 (F) Osawa: MC 28/2.8 (F)
Vintage Lenses: Dallmeyer: 1940s A.M. 14in 356mm f4 (ULF->M42) 1930s Adon Telephoto Taylor, Taylor & Hobson: 1880s Rapid Rectilinear 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 11.31in f/8 (LF->?)
Parts Lenses: Nikon 35-135/3.5-4.5 (F), Sigma 70-210/4.5 (F), Nikon 50/1.8 Series E (F) |
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martyn_bannister
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:22 am Post subject: |
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martyn_bannister wrote:
| Scheimpflug wrote: |
| mo wrote: |
| I think I will give this a miss too many unknowns.Thanks for your input |
mo - is it close enough that you could go check it out in person?
Based on what others have said, it sounds to me like the biggest risk factor is the condition of the mirror. So if you could verify that the mirror is OK, and you don't mind the cosmetics, then it wouldn't be too bad.... or perhaps you could even offer a lower price.
I think (correct me if I am wrong) that the filters would only be an issue if you shot B&W film, and the lack of a case & instructions would only set you back if you wanted to re-sell it. You would have to find or make another case to protect it while carrying it around, but that wouldn't be too hard.
So if you just want a "user" lens for your DSLR, and don't care about the appearance or the resale value, it might still be a good option. It would just all depend on the condition of the mirror.... |
I think you are right. It is strange that the only picture of the optics from the front is at a large angle. No sight of the mirror anywhere. It would be a good idea to get at least a new picture of that. I suspect that the mirror might be damaged and maybe the seller doesn't want to admit it? |
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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 2463
Location: NC, USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:40 am Post subject: |
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walter g wrote:
If the mirror isn't damaged it might be a bargain, if the shipping is cheap.
The ones I see on ebay in the FSU countries, shipping seemed to be $60 and up. 
_________________
Main cameras
Panasonic G5,Nikon J1,Pentax Q10,Sony Nex 6
Minolta MC W SI 2.5/28, MD 2.8/28, MC W SG 3.5/28, MC Celtic 3.5/28, MC W HG 2.8/35, MD Celtic 2.8/35, QE 4/35, Rokkor X 2/45, MC Rokkor X PG 1.4/50, MC Rokkor X PG 1.7/50, MD Rokkor X 1.7/50, MD 2/50, MC Rokkor PF 1.7/55, MC Rokkor PF 1.9/55, Auto Tele Rokkor PG 2.8/135, MC Tele Rokkor QD 3.5/135, TC 4/135, MC Celtic 4/200, MC Tele Rokkor PE 4.5/200
MD 28-70 f3.5-4.8, MD Macro 35-70 f3.5, Md 70-210 f4, MD Rokkor X 75-200 f4.5, MD 100-200 f5.6
Nikon Nikkor 4/20, O Auto 2/35, S Auto 1.4/50..... Miranda Auto 2.8/28, Auto 2.8/35, Auto 1.4/50, Auto EC 1.4/50, Auto 1.8/50, Auto EC 1.8/50,Auto 1.9/50, Auto 3.5/135
Various Soligor,Sun,Fujita,Komura,Spitatone, etc. Lenses
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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 8979
Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:48 am Post subject: |
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mo wrote:
So the main question(s) to ask is the mirror ok and the usual does it have fungus...on the rear element it does appear to me to have a spot of fungus?
I have never seen a mirror lens up close so it is a totally new beast to me.
Scheimp...They do not live close at all..it would be nice to be able to do that occasionally I don't care for cosmetics as long as it is functional and does what it is meant to do.
_________________
Moira, Moderator
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
Canon FL 58/1.2,Canon FL85/1.8,Canon FL 100/3.5,Canon SSC 2.8/100 ,Konica AR 100/2.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5
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