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diffid
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 16 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject: Budget EOS Entry Level for 35mm manual lenses. |
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diffid wrote:
Hi
I have a selection of Meyer Optik Zebras, some CZJ and Super Taks with a Canon 550D.
I'd like to buy an entry level DSLR for my daughter, who uses my 550D as much as me when we're out and about.
I've recently sold a Nikon DSLR which I had considered passing onto her, but due to my understanding that they are unable to use many non Nikon mount lenses, that I simply can not afford to buy Nikon glass and consider money better spent on one make of DSLR in the household, to share lenses etc.
What would you consider the point of entry for a DSLR for her, an eager novice already very comfortable with manual control. |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Meyer, CZJ and Takumar lenses come (almost all) in M42.
The "best" camera system for M42 is probably EOS.
Nikon doesn't do well with M42 lenses due to the short register distance.
Why not get an EOS 1000D? Or a used 400D / 450D? _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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diffid
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 16 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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diffid wrote:
Lucis
Yes most lenses are M42, forgot also have OM zuikos 50mm 1.2 and 1.8 and mount adaptor to EOS. All work well on 550D I have.
The 1000D is more the price I was considering as long as there are no known issues with using such lenses.
I'll have to look more into the specs to see what advantages or disadvantages there maybe for the 400/450.
Thank you for your reply. |
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Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 1888 Location: New Zealand / USA
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Scheimpflug wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
The "best" camera system for M42 is probably EOS. |
You think so? Pentax has a long history of M42 lenses, and sells their own "official" M42 adapters. In the consumer segment, Pentax also has a slightly more favorable crop factor - 1.53x/1.54x vs 1.6x, and unlike Canon, offers a number of DSLRs with in-body image stabilization. _________________ Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
Tamron: 28/2.8 (Adaptall) Panagor: 28/2.5 (FD) Aetna: 300/5.6 (F) Osawa: MC 28/2.8 (F)
Vintage Lenses: Dallmeyer: 1940s A.M. 14in 356mm f4 (ULF->M42) 1930s Adon Telephoto Taylor, Taylor & Hobson: 1880s Rapid Rectilinear 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 11.31in f/8 (LF->?)
Parts Lenses: Nikon 35-135/3.5-4.5 (F), Sigma 70-210/4.5 (F), Nikon 50/1.8 Series E (F) |
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ylyad
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Posts: 476 Location: Zentralschweiz
Expire: 2013-12-05
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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ylyad wrote:
diffid wrote: |
Lucis
Yes most lenses are M42, forgot also have OM zuikos 50mm 1.2 and 1.8 and mount adaptor to EOS. All work well on 550D I have.
The 1000D is more the price I was considering as long as there are no known issues with using such lenses.
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All depends on this: what's your budget? Because the 1000D (naked) can be found for very cheap - about 300 Euros in France. If you're looking for significantly less, I'd go for 300D-350D. _________________
Camera: Fuji X-E2, Fuji X100T
MF: Canon nFD 50/1.4, Canon nFD 100/2.8, Tokina RMC 135/2.8
Tamron SP 24-48/3.5-3.8
http://www.flickr.com/derdide/
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diffid
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 16 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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diffid wrote:
hi ylyad
I was considering just the body and here in the UK the 1000d is about the same £300, there's £50 cash back too until end of June. The 1000d is botom of my price range I think. But another 550D body would be too much, incuding the Class 10 memory cards for the video functions, but of coarse cheaper cards for photos generally and photos is what my daughter enjoys taking.
Scheimpflug, I'll take a look at Pentax, but if there is little in spec difference, I must consider things like additional batteries or mount adaptors for example that can be shared between my 550D and a 1000d possibly. If they are the same.
I wonder how the viewfinder compares, the LCD is smaller at 2.5", I think a trip to a local store to try one out. |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Scheimpflug wrote: |
LucisPictor wrote: |
The "best" camera system for M42 is probably EOS. |
You think so? Pentax has a long history of M42 lenses, and sells their own "official" M42 adapters. In the consumer segment, Pentax also has a slightly more favorable crop factor - 1.53x/1.54x vs 1.6x, and unlike Canon, offers a number of DSLRs with in-body image stabilization. |
Pentax is surely great for M42 lenses as well. But M42 often is only a start. Later Nikkors, Zuikos, Zeiss/Contax and Leicas follow. Thus, EOS is the best system. And it offers fullframe cams. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de
Last edited by LucisPictor on Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DigiChromeEd
Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 3462 Location: Northern Ireland
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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DigiChromeEd wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
Scheimpflug wrote: |
LucisPictor wrote: |
The "best" camera system for M42 is probably EOS. |
You think so? Pentax has a long history of M42 lenses, and sells their own "official" M42 adapters. In the consumer segment, Pentax also has a slightly more favorable crop factor - 1.53x/1.54x vs 1.6x, and unlike Canon, offers a number of DSLRs with in-body image stabilization. |
Pentax is surely great for M42 lenses as well. But M42 often is only a start. Later Nikkore, Zuikos, Zeiss/Contax and Leicas follow. Thus, EOS is the best system. And it offers fullframe cams. |
+1 _________________ "I've got a Nikon camera, I like to take a photograph" - Paul Simon |
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ylyad
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Posts: 476 Location: Zentralschweiz
Expire: 2013-12-05
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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ylyad wrote:
diffid wrote: |
I was considering just the body and here in the UK the 1000d is about the same £300, there's £50 cash back too until end of June. The 1000d is botom of my price range I think. But another 550D body would be too much, incuding the Class 10 memory cards for the video functions, but of coarse cheaper cards for photos generally and photos is what my daughter enjoys taking.
Scheimpflug, I'll take a look at Pentax, but if there is little in spec difference, I must consider things like additional batteries or mount adaptors for example that can be shared between my 550D and a 1000d possibly. If they are the same.
I wonder how the viewfinder compares, the LCD is smaller at 2.5", I think a trip to a local store to try one out. |
No accessory sharing (batteries/chargers of 1000D are identical to 450D-500D, but 550D is a new generation) except for memory cards
Viewfinder of 1000D is the one of 300D-350D-400D, so quite smaller and darker than the 550D (I confirm). Honestly, if 300£ is more than what you intended to buy, I'd recommend going to a used 350D (150 Euros) 400D (200 Euros) or even 300D (100 Euros), the advantages of the 1000D mainly being the larger screen and the continuous shooting. _________________
Camera: Fuji X-E2, Fuji X100T
MF: Canon nFD 50/1.4, Canon nFD 100/2.8, Tokina RMC 135/2.8
Tamron SP 24-48/3.5-3.8
http://www.flickr.com/derdide/
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diffid
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 16 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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diffid wrote:
ylyad
I thought as much about the accessories, too bad. My budget is £300 upwards rather than all I want to spend but can't really go to another 550D so I'm going to settle on a 1000d for her.
I appreciate the comparison to older models and suggestion in buying second hand. For the price of the 1000d, £275 compared to time / cost finding a decent second hand older model, I think the 1000d will be more than enough performance for her for now.
Thanks all for your input and I hope to show some results from us here on this great site. |
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Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 1888 Location: New Zealand / USA
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Scheimpflug wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
Pentax is surely great for M42 lenses as well. But M42 often is only a start. Later Nikkors, Zuikos, Zeiss/Contax and Leicas follow. Thus, EOS is the best system. And it offers fullframe cams. |
Sure... but if full-frame was in the picture, then the solution would be much simpler- diffid could just buy a 5D for himself and give the 550D to his daughter.
I wouldn't worry too much about sharing adapters... once you have two cameras for two people, there is a very good likelihood that they won't always be in the same place at the same time. "Sharing" is one of those things that works well in theory, but breaks down quickly if any important resource becomes scarce. With how cheap the adapters are, it would be advisable to purchase a few extras anyway, at which point the camera system doesn't really matter.
Also, diffid, for batteries remember that many Pentax bodies take readily available AAs instead of proprietary lithium-ion batteries. This might be handy for your daughter, as the rechargeable NiMH batteries are extremely cheap, and you can always use disposable alkalines in a pinch if necessary (traveling, etc).
I'm not trying to steer you away from another Canon... just trying to make sure you know what is available. _________________ Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
Tamron: 28/2.8 (Adaptall) Panagor: 28/2.5 (FD) Aetna: 300/5.6 (F) Osawa: MC 28/2.8 (F)
Vintage Lenses: Dallmeyer: 1940s A.M. 14in 356mm f4 (ULF->M42) 1930s Adon Telephoto Taylor, Taylor & Hobson: 1880s Rapid Rectilinear 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 11.31in f/8 (LF->?)
Parts Lenses: Nikon 35-135/3.5-4.5 (F), Sigma 70-210/4.5 (F), Nikon 50/1.8 Series E (F) |
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ylyad
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Posts: 476 Location: Zentralschweiz
Expire: 2013-12-05
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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ylyad wrote:
If you're ready to pay a little extra, I'd advise going to a 450D rather than a 1000D. Brighter and larger viewfinder (same as 550D) and better AF.
And I must say I thought about making a similar proposal to scheimpflug's _________________
Camera: Fuji X-E2, Fuji X100T
MF: Canon nFD 50/1.4, Canon nFD 100/2.8, Tokina RMC 135/2.8
Tamron SP 24-48/3.5-3.8
http://www.flickr.com/derdide/
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diffid
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 16 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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diffid wrote:
Scheimpflug & ylyad
Ok, had a quick look at Pentax k-x, looks interesting, is the k-x what you were suggesting? Or other recommendations?
I will read up on Pentax later this evening, currently working so little time.
Regarding adaptors for Pentax they do their own to M42 and K Mount? Are others available for example Olympus OM mount?
Thank you again. |
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ylyad
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Posts: 476 Location: Zentralschweiz
Expire: 2013-12-05
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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ylyad wrote:
Sorry, no I proposed 450D (Canon). But my initial thought was the following: YOU upgrade (50D - quite cheap these days - or higher: 7D or even 5DmkII) and you give the 550D to your daughter _________________
Camera: Fuji X-E2, Fuji X100T
MF: Canon nFD 50/1.4, Canon nFD 100/2.8, Tokina RMC 135/2.8
Tamron SP 24-48/3.5-3.8
http://www.flickr.com/derdide/
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
DigiChromeEd wrote: |
LucisPictor wrote: |
Scheimpflug wrote: |
LucisPictor wrote: |
The "best" camera system for M42 is probably EOS. |
You think so? Pentax has a long history of M42 lenses, and sells their own "official" M42 adapters. In the consumer segment, Pentax also has a slightly more favorable crop factor - 1.53x/1.54x vs 1.6x, and unlike Canon, offers a number of DSLRs with in-body image stabilization. |
Pentax is surely great for M42 lenses as well. But M42 often is only a start. Later Nikkore, Zuikos, Zeiss/Contax and Leicas follow. Thus, EOS is the best system. And it offers fullframe cams. |
+1 |
+1 _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
diffid wrote: |
Scheimpflug & ylyad
Ok, had a quick look at Pentax k-x, looks interesting, is the k-x what you were suggesting? Or other recommendations?
I will read up on Pentax later this evening, currently working so little time.
Regarding adaptors for Pentax they do their own to M42 and K Mount? Are others available for example Olympus OM mount?
Thank you again. |
Not available. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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diffid
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 16 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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diffid wrote:
Attia, is that the k-x not available or the OM mount.
I have located a 450D body new at decent cost. So go for that or 1000d then.
Is there any problems with metering accuracy in manual mode with the Canon DSLR''s like 550D, 450D, 1000D I haven't noticed anything so far with the 550D? |
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ylyad
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Posts: 476 Location: Zentralschweiz
Expire: 2013-12-05
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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ylyad wrote:
what do you mean by "metering accuracy"? if it's the relevance of the AF confirm stuff, that's what I'd like to know too... _________________
Camera: Fuji X-E2, Fuji X100T
MF: Canon nFD 50/1.4, Canon nFD 100/2.8, Tokina RMC 135/2.8
Tamron SP 24-48/3.5-3.8
http://www.flickr.com/derdide/
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diffid
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 16 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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diffid wrote:
Well I read places that users of Canon DSLR's say only AV mode meters accurately with manual lenses and stop down mode, probably not scientific tests. They mention under or overexposing inaccuracy, don't know what metering mode they were using.
I've had no problems with the 550D, although I generally only use spot metering, perhaps it is prior models of older design, perhaps no problems exist and it's users error or unfamiliarity? |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
diffid wrote: |
Attia, is that the k-x not available or the OM mount.
I have located a 450D body new at decent cost. So go for that or 1000d then.
Is there any problems with metering accuracy in manual mode with the Canon DSLR''s like 550D, 450D, 1000D I haven't noticed anything so far with the 550D? |
I said exactly this , not available. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 1888 Location: New Zealand / USA
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:00 am Post subject: |
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Scheimpflug wrote:
Attila wrote: |
diffid wrote: |
Attia, is that the k-x not available or the OM mount. |
I said exactly this , not available. |
The K-x is available new from Adorama, and as a demo from B&H. Of course, there are hundreds of them on ebay as well.
For the OM lenses, you can adapt the 50/1.2 via a Leitax conversion, but not yet the 50/1.8.
---
Regardless, this is getting away from what you are after. My main point was just to add some balance to LucisPictor's "best M42 system" comment, as I believe the best M42 system in the budget consumer range is probably Pentax. For a system with the most compatibility across the board, outside of M42, you're probably best with a Canon.
So, if you only have the two non-M42 lenses and you think your daughter could live without them, then you could get a Pentax with a M42 adapter and enjoy the Pentax benefits (in-body shake reduction, standard & inexpensive batteries, significantly better high-ISO performance (K-x), better crop factor, higher resolution (vs 1000D), HD video, etc). If you want to use every lens with every camera and have the most flexibility for other non-M42 lenses in the future, then buy a Canon.
It's up to you. Just whatever you do, don't buy her a Nikon. _________________ Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
Tamron: 28/2.8 (Adaptall) Panagor: 28/2.5 (FD) Aetna: 300/5.6 (F) Osawa: MC 28/2.8 (F)
Vintage Lenses: Dallmeyer: 1940s A.M. 14in 356mm f4 (ULF->M42) 1930s Adon Telephoto Taylor, Taylor & Hobson: 1880s Rapid Rectilinear 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 11.31in f/8 (LF->?)
Parts Lenses: Nikon 35-135/3.5-4.5 (F), Sigma 70-210/4.5 (F), Nikon 50/1.8 Series E (F) |
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diffid
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 16 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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diffid wrote:
Scheimpflug
Yes the Pentax k-x has quite a lot on paper that looks more beneficial than the 1000D or 450D.
The overiding factor for my daughter is to have access to a range of lenses for macro, wide angle, short tele etc, college coarses require a range
To buy these as new canon mount or other, the cost would be prohibitive, to use fair to good or better older manual lenses should come at a more reasonable price and there is the fun of discovering their quirks.
There are a lot of M42 mount lenses about, going the Pentax route would I think be perfectly ok to achieve a range.
My 550D could be used should there be a need.
So the Pentax k-x looks good and the price very competitive.
Thanks again. So leaning towards the Pentax k-x. |
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Asa14
Joined: 30 Jul 2010 Posts: 4
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Asa14 wrote:
The pentax would be a good decision. I have one with m42 lenses and it works Fine.
To solute the Problem with the compability to your 550d simply buy a pentax to Canon Adapter. Haven't tried it but should work.
lg asa14 |
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trev
Joined: 30 Jun 2010 Posts: 580 Location: North Wales - UK
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:06 am Post subject: |
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trev wrote:
Have you thought about a used Canon 20D - a robust and excellent camera _________________ Fuji X10, X-A1 and Samsung nx 20 |
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DigiChromeEd
Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 3462 Location: Northern Ireland
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:28 am Post subject: |
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DigiChromeEd wrote:
trev wrote: |
Have you thought about a used Canon 20D - a robust and excellent camera |
Or even a Canon 10D - I use one along with my 5DMKII and it is also a robust and excellent camera. _________________ "I've got a Nikon camera, I like to take a photograph" - Paul Simon |
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