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schen
Joined: 20 Apr 2009 Posts: 30 Location: DFW/TX/U.S.
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: Must have lost my mind! |
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schen wrote:
I've lurked and read this forum for quite some time since I cut my teeth in photography back in the 60's using my dad's Voigtlander Bessamatic.
Anyway, I'm a teacher in a Texas Middle School who's been teaching our yearbook photographers the "craft" during our extra period. I have a group that is ready for the more advanced aspects of photography other than composition, camera handling etc. Therefore, I'm about to teach them about light and how to handle it relative to the factors available to them through a camera. I know it's backwards from how it used to be done, but I can only work with what I have.
Anyway, in order to accomplish this I've decided to make them use old manual cameras and hand-held light meters. To that end, I just picked up 4 cameras from a Craig's List ad yesterday. So now, I've gone from 1 old SLR (Miranda Sensorex II) to 5 in one fell swoop! A Nikon FM, a Pentax Spotmatic SP1000, a Miranda Sensorex (1st series) and a tempermental Konica Autoreflex A!
I'm about to have a bunch of 14 year olds running around shooting film with manual cameras and Weston meters! Am I a teacher or a relic!?! _________________ I like most anything made after the mid-50s. Have been a user of Voigtlander, Canon, Exacta, Pentax, Miranda, and now Nikon.
Nikon D300, D40
AF 18-200mmVR, 18-70mm
MF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 (chipped), Nikon E 28mm f/2.8 (chipped), Vivitar 70-150 f/3.8, Tamron Adaptall 300mm f/5.6, Tamron AD2 28-50mm f/3.5-4.5, Tamron AD2 70-150 mm f/3.8, Tokina 500mm f/8 Cat.
Last edited by schen on Mon May 10, 2010 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6950 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
Welcome to the forum and good for you in passing the interest on. _________________ Casual attendance these days |
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fish4570
Joined: 06 Jan 2010 Posts: 4514 Location: At the confluence of the Locust Fork of the Warrior River and Black Creek, Alabama
Expire: 2012-03-21
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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fish4570 wrote:
We will see when you post their photos! _________________ Paul
I chase Light
http://blackcreekjournal.blogspot.com/ |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10472 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
welcome schen
have a nice stay with us _________________ T* |
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trifox
Joined: 14 May 2008 Posts: 3614 Location: UK
Expire: 2014-05-29
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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trifox wrote:
Welcome to the board and have a fun with manual lenses ..
We also appreciate that you're a teacher
tf _________________ Flickr.com |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Welcome and enjoy your stay! _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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marty
Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 767 Location: Italy
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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marty wrote:
Welcome aboard!!
Cheers, M.- _________________ Canon FD
Bodies: AT-1, A-1, T-90
Lenses: nFD 20mm f2.8, 24 f2.8, 28 f2.8, 35 f2, FD 50 f1.8 S.C., 85 f1.8, 100 f2.8, 135 f2.8, 200 f4, 300 f4
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Katastrofo
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 10405 Location: USA
Expire: 2013-11-19
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Katastrofo wrote:
So who told him about his thread title? Never mind.
Welcome! |
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womble
Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Posts: 987 Location: Hertfordshire
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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womble wrote:
They'll love it... retro is very in at the moment, or so I am led to believe by young folk.
K. _________________ Kris Lockyear
Digital: Pentax K-3iii
35mm film SLRs: various Pentax bodies from a H2 to a SF7, favourites the MX and LX
Rangefinder: Zeiss Super Ikonta IV, FED2, Zorkii-4, Industar 26m, Jupiter 8, 11 and 12 lenses
Medium format: various folders, Yashica Mat 124 G. Lubitel 2
LF: Horseman LE 5x4 view camera.
MF lenses (favourites) Pentax "K" 200mm f/2.5; "K" 135mm f/2.5; "K" 50mm f/1.2; "K" 35mm f/2; "K" 30mm f/2.8; "K" 28mm f/3.5 shift; "K" 15mm f/3.5; M 100mm f/2.8; M 40mm f/2.8; Jupiter-9 85mm |
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Scheimpflug
Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 1888 Location: New Zealand / USA
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Scheimpflug wrote:
I've found that an understanding of the film process has helped me tremendously in digital photography.
Kudos to you for your initiative, and best of luck to your students. Let us know if there is anything we can do to help! _________________ Sigma DP1, Nikon D40 (hers ), Polaroid x530, Pentax P30t, Pentax P50, (P30t/P50 K-A to Nikon F body mount conversion)
Nikon: 18-55/3.5-5.6 "G ED II DX" (F) Soligor: 28/2.8 (FL->F converted), 135/3.5 (F), 3x TC (F, modified) Kalimar: 28-85/3.5 (F)
Vivitar: 70-210/2.8-4.0 Version 3 (F), Tele 500/6.3 Preset (F), 19/3.8 (F) Minolta: 300/5.6 (SR/MC/MD pending F conversion)
Tamron: 28/2.8 (Adaptall) Panagor: 28/2.5 (FD) Aetna: 300/5.6 (F) Osawa: MC 28/2.8 (F)
Vintage Lenses: Dallmeyer: 1940s A.M. 14in 356mm f4 (ULF->M42) 1930s Adon Telephoto Taylor, Taylor & Hobson: 1880s Rapid Rectilinear 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 11.31in f/8 (LF->?)
Parts Lenses: Nikon 35-135/3.5-4.5 (F), Sigma 70-210/4.5 (F), Nikon 50/1.8 Series E (F) |
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schen
Joined: 20 Apr 2009 Posts: 30 Location: DFW/TX/U.S.
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:19 am Post subject: |
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schen wrote:
Scheimpflug wrote: |
I've found that an understanding of the film process has helped me tremendously in digital photography.
Kudos to you for your initiative, and best of luck to your students. Let us know if there is anything we can do to help! |
I agree completely. In fact, I credit much of my generally seamless conversion to digital comes from the basic experience learned from handling the pretty basic Bessamatic.
As a matter of fact, some of the first photographs I remember were slides taken in New Zealand by my father when he worked there. Your country had such an impact on him that he named me for his Kiwi friend from Auckland!
I'll definitely use this forum as a resource as necessary. I appreciate everyone's warm welcomes. _________________ I like most anything made after the mid-50s. Have been a user of Voigtlander, Canon, Exacta, Pentax, Miranda, and now Nikon.
Nikon D300, D40
AF 18-200mmVR, 18-70mm
MF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 (chipped), Nikon E 28mm f/2.8 (chipped), Vivitar 70-150 f/3.8, Tamron Adaptall 300mm f/5.6, Tamron AD2 28-50mm f/3.5-4.5, Tamron AD2 70-150 mm f/3.8, Tokina 500mm f/8 Cat. |
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nemesis101
Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 2050 Location: Oregon USA
Expire: 2015-01-22
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:52 am Post subject: Welcome |
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nemesis101 wrote:
As an ex teacher I applaud your efforts, good luck
Doug _________________ Lenses and cameras:
Amateurs worry about equipment
Pros worry about money,
Masters worry about light. |
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Neare
Joined: 09 Sep 2009 Posts: 43 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Neare wrote:
Teach them and keep them using film
Sure they won't have that instant gratification (IMO is a good thing when learning, it won't allow them to become lazy and take a shot of 'everything' until they land a good one, they actually have to pick and choose a good shot!) but they'll get better results too. Meaning you won't have to teach them the in's and out's of photoshop as well
Film is regaining its popularity slowly _________________ Photos |
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schen
Joined: 20 Apr 2009 Posts: 30 Location: DFW/TX/U.S.
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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schen wrote:
Neare wrote: |
Teach them and keep them using film
Sure they won't have that instant gratification (IMO is a good thing when learning, it won't allow them to become lazy and take a shot of 'everything' until they land a good one, they actually have to pick and choose a good shot!) but they'll get better results too. Meaning you won't have to teach them the in's and out's of photoshop as well
Film is regaining its popularity slowly |
I completely agree with you on the use of film slowing them down and making them think about the picture instead of snapping away. It's just so hard for them since they've known nothing but instant gratification their entire life.
Just getting them to understand that "light" is the thing that they work with the most vs. the subject is challenging in and of itself. There's just so much more that kids of my generation (I'm 49 now) knew about photography because our cameras didn't do as much, that it's been kind of difficult to try and figure out what they don't know. I remember so many times that I stood there with the camera to my eye and hearing my father's voice in my ear talking me through the process of what I was seeing. There was time to hear him since there wasn't a microprocessor instantaneously making all the calculations and adjustments already without my intervention. Then knowing that when I pressed the shutter that it was permanent and I'd have to live with the results vs. being able to simply delete it.
I told them that we were in the process of teaching them to become "photographers" instead of "snap-shooters". Photography by intention vs. photography by accident! _________________ I like most anything made after the mid-50s. Have been a user of Voigtlander, Canon, Exacta, Pentax, Miranda, and now Nikon.
Nikon D300, D40
AF 18-200mmVR, 18-70mm
MF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 (chipped), Nikon E 28mm f/2.8 (chipped), Vivitar 70-150 f/3.8, Tamron Adaptall 300mm f/5.6, Tamron AD2 28-50mm f/3.5-4.5, Tamron AD2 70-150 mm f/3.8, Tokina 500mm f/8 Cat. |
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nemesis101
Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 2050 Location: Oregon USA
Expire: 2015-01-22
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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nemesis101 wrote:
Painting with light indeed, not heading for a masters in digital manipulation!
Doug
Painting with light indeed, not heading for a masters in digital manipulation!
schen wrote: |
Neare wrote: |
Teach them and keep them using film
Sure they won't have that instant gratification (IMO is a good thing when learning, it won't allow them to become lazy and take a shot of 'everything' until they land a good one, they actually have to pick and choose a good shot!) but they'll get better results too. Meaning you won't have to teach them the in's and out's of photoshop as well
Film is regaining its popularity slowly |
I completely agree with you on the use of film slowing them down and making them think about the picture instead of snapping away. It's just so hard for them since they've known nothing but instant gratification their entire life.
Just getting them to understand that "light" is the thing that they work with the most vs. the subject is challenging in and of itself. There's just so much more that kids of my generation (I'm 49 now) knew about photography because our cameras didn't do as much, that it's been kind of difficult to try and figure out what they don't know. I remember so many times that I stood there with the camera to my eye and hearing my father's voice in my ear talking me through the process of what I was seeing. There was time to hear him since there wasn't a microprocessor instantaneously making all the calculations and adjustments already without my intervention. Then knowing that when I pressed the shutter that it was permanent and I'd have to live with the results vs. being able to simply delete it.
I told them that we were in the process of teaching them to become "photographers" instead of "snap-shooters". Photography by intention vs. photography by accident! |
_________________ Lenses and cameras:
Amateurs worry about equipment
Pros worry about money,
Masters worry about light. |
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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009 Posts: 8979 Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 12:22 am Post subject: |
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mo wrote:
Quote: |
I'm about to have a bunch of 14 year olds running around shooting film with manual cameras and Weston meters! Am I a teacher or a relic!?! |
You are a visionary!! So much more thought needed in film photography...good on you...I hope you make it come alive to them.
Will you be teaching film development next?? _________________ Moira, Moderator
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
Canon FL 58/1.2,Canon FL85/1.8,Canon FL 100/3.5,Canon SSC 2.8/100 ,Konica AR 100/2.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5
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schen
Joined: 20 Apr 2009 Posts: 30 Location: DFW/TX/U.S.
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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schen wrote:
mo wrote: |
Will you be teaching film development next?? |
I wish I could, however; gone are the days that every school was built with a darkroom! I would love to be able to do at least Black & White. At least for me, there was nothing quite as magical as watching an image appear on the paper in a tray of developer! All through High School, I had a darkroom attached to my room and would often stay up much of the night after a school football game processing the film and printing.
Let me throw out my first lesson and see if anyone has input before its slated to be taught on Monday.
Lesson 1: Overview of Factors in the Control of Light
* Film speed
* Shutter speed
* Lens speed/f-stops
adendum- "Sunny 16" rule
After which they will be sent out with film and manual cameras with either no or non-functioning meters to shoot a roll. And a pad to record their settings. _________________ I like most anything made after the mid-50s. Have been a user of Voigtlander, Canon, Exacta, Pentax, Miranda, and now Nikon.
Nikon D300, D40
AF 18-200mmVR, 18-70mm
MF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 (chipped), Nikon E 28mm f/2.8 (chipped), Vivitar 70-150 f/3.8, Tamron Adaptall 300mm f/5.6, Tamron AD2 28-50mm f/3.5-4.5, Tamron AD2 70-150 mm f/3.8, Tokina 500mm f/8 Cat. |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Neare wrote: |
Teach them and keep them using film
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6pphVs8bF0 _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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schen
Joined: 20 Apr 2009 Posts: 30 Location: DFW/TX/U.S.
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:45 pm Post subject: They're loose! |
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schen wrote:
So, I've just set 4, 14 year old 8th graders loose on the world with 45 year old film cameras! They are equiped with nothing but the "Sunny 16" rule.
The two cameras with batteries in them (Nikon FM & Pentax SP1000) have had them removed. The other 2 have Mirandas, a Sensorex & a Sensorex II.
They've been taught the rudimentaries of understanding the concept of "a stop" of light and how the progressions of "f stops" & shutter speeds work, as well as the concept of film speed.
So now they have an assignment to shoot half a roll of 24exp. ISO 200 film outside on largely static subjects and make adjustments to the controls based on changes in light, DOF needs and or subject matter.
Next, week, we'll move on to more dynamic subjects and see how they do. _________________ I like most anything made after the mid-50s. Have been a user of Voigtlander, Canon, Exacta, Pentax, Miranda, and now Nikon.
Nikon D300, D40
AF 18-200mmVR, 18-70mm
MF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 (chipped), Nikon E 28mm f/2.8 (chipped), Vivitar 70-150 f/3.8, Tamron Adaptall 300mm f/5.6, Tamron AD2 28-50mm f/3.5-4.5, Tamron AD2 70-150 mm f/3.8, Tokina 500mm f/8 Cat. |
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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009 Posts: 8979 Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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mo wrote:
Would you be allowed to show the results here?? _________________ Moira, Moderator
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
Canon FL 58/1.2,Canon FL85/1.8,Canon FL 100/3.5,Canon SSC 2.8/100 ,Konica AR 100/2.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5
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schen
Joined: 20 Apr 2009 Posts: 30 Location: DFW/TX/U.S.
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Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 1:32 am Post subject: Re: Results |
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schen wrote:
mo wrote: |
Would you be allowed to show the results here?? |
I'll look into that. I'd really like to do that if possible. _________________ I like most anything made after the mid-50s. Have been a user of Voigtlander, Canon, Exacta, Pentax, Miranda, and now Nikon.
Nikon D300, D40
AF 18-200mmVR, 18-70mm
MF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 (chipped), Nikon E 28mm f/2.8 (chipped), Vivitar 70-150 f/3.8, Tamron Adaptall 300mm f/5.6, Tamron AD2 28-50mm f/3.5-4.5, Tamron AD2 70-150 mm f/3.8, Tokina 500mm f/8 Cat. |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7788 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
I would love to see the results, every frame ( if that was possible without using all the bandwidth ) just to see if the concept is easily grasped by young people who accept digital media as the norm.
My guess is they will, 'digital' makes no real difference to those basics. _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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