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Sony A7r, gamechanger, to be announced Wed
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Home Digital Rangefinder / Viewfinder Cameras  Sony-NEX
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikos wrote:
ForenSeil wrote:

Any SLR Distagon should work perfect an A7/r! These are (like every SLR wide-angle lens!) retrofocus-design lenses with several cm space between rear element and sensor, so they are completly free of any sensor-caused vignetting, smearing, color-fringing and so on! These corner issues only occur on rangefinder/viewfinder-camera lenses.

That's why I've bought an Samyang 14/2.8 to have an good FF ultra wide angle instead of an compact rangefinder glass like 15mm Heliar - no corner problems at all, cheaper, faster and optically about as good but without corner issues on digital sensors. Only benfit of the Heliar would have been the size - the Samyang is rather larger while the Heliar is really small (I had one, it's really VERY compact)

So you are telling me to get the Metabones adapter for Canon lenses...
I have a 15mm Heliar L39 too. I use it on my NEX.


Or get an cheap non-AF adaptor ^^ depends on your lenses. Do you have many with AF?
Like this one Click here to see on Ebay.de


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I need to control the aperture... Sad

I hope the next generation of mirrorless cameras will solve these sensor problems.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikos wrote:
I need to control the aperture... Sad

I hope the next generation of mirrorless cameras will solve these sensor problems.


I doubt that they will ever fully solve this problem on CMOS sensors. It's an physical effect hard to avoid.
Even Leica M240, Leica M Monochrom etc. which are dediated rangefinder lenses have these problems.

Zeiss will release digital-optimized wide angle lenses within the next months and years which don't have this issues.
Have you seen samples of the new E-Mount 35/2.8 Sonnar? It's breathtaking!

Quote:
SLR:
Canon TS-E 17mm f/4, Zeiss 2.8/21 ZE, Zeiss 2/28 Contax, Zeiss 2/35 ZE, Zeiss 1.4/50 Contax, Zeiss 1.4/85 Contax, Zeiss Makro 2/100 ZE,
Zeiss 2/135 Contax, Zeiss 2.8/135 Contax, Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 35-70 Contax, Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 100-300 Contax, Zeiss F-Distagon Rollei
Rangefinder:
Zeiss 4.5/21 C Biogon ZM, Zeiss 2/35 Biogon ZM, Voigtländer 15mm f/4.5 Heliar L39, Leica Tele-Elmarit 2.8/90mm

AF lenses: Canon 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye, Canon 24-70 f/2.8 L, Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II, Canon 70-200 f/4 L, Canon 300 f/4 L IS, Canon 100 f/2.8 macro


I have just seen you Canon EF collection in your signature! You should definatly buy an Canon AF adapter ^^
They became pretty cheap - they cost 70-90€ only with electronic aperture- and AF control

Sad that your Zeiss 4.5/21 does only work nice in crop mode of the camera. Heliar 15 has some issues thatmight be correctable on A7 (A7 is better than A7r in corner performance).


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ForenSeil wrote:

I have just seen you Canon EF collection in your signature! You should definatly buy an Canon AF adapter ^^
They became pretty cheap - they cost 70-90€ only with electronic aperture- and AF control

Sad that your Zeiss 4.5/21 does only work nice in crop mode of the camera. Heliar 15 has some issues thatmight be correctable on A7 (A7 is better than A7r in corner performance).

90Euros? Where? Last time I checked it was $400...

Really sad about the 21mm Biogon. It ruined my fantasy of a perfect & ultra-compact combo Sad


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikos wrote:
ForenSeil wrote:

I have just seen you Canon EF collection in your signature! You should definatly buy an Canon AF adapter ^^
They became pretty cheap - they cost 70-90€ only with electronic aperture- and AF control

Sad that your Zeiss 4.5/21 does only work nice in crop mode of the camera. Heliar 15 has some issues thatmight be correctable on A7 (A7 is better than A7r in corner performance).

90Euros? Where? Last time I checked it was $400...

Really sad about the 21mm Biogon. It ruined my fantasy of a perfect & ultra-compact combo Sad

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=ef+nex+af&LH_PrefLoc=3&_sop=2

Keep in mind that the old adapter will not support FF A7. Only the metabones mark III officially supports A7(R) at this moment.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
Nikos wrote:
ForenSeil wrote:

I have just seen you Canon EF collection in your signature! You should definatly buy an Canon AF adapter ^^
They became pretty cheap - they cost 70-90€ only with electronic aperture- and AF control

Sad that your Zeiss 4.5/21 does only work nice in crop mode of the camera. Heliar 15 has some issues thatmight be correctable on A7 (A7 is better than A7r in corner performance).

90Euros? Where? Last time I checked it was $400...

Really sad about the 21mm Biogon. It ruined my fantasy of a perfect & ultra-compact combo Sad

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=ef+nex+af&LH_PrefLoc=3&_sop=2

Keep in mind that the old adapter will not support FF A7. Only the metabones mark III officially supports A7(R) at this moment.

+1
Be careful! Also some of these cheap adapters might produce vignetting due "internal hoods" like old Sony E - Sony A adapter when used on FF. Look closely if they have one!


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
Jupiter 12 wide open, slight color shift, but what a diamond for the price! Very Happy


Well, you convinced me! I now have an a7 and Jupiter-12 on order Shocked Very Happy

Plenty of stuff to sell over the next couple of months now Confused Wink


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Congratz! Very Happy

I just bought the J12 my self to use with the new Sony. My guess is that the value of this lens will go up. Wink

What camera did you use recently? NEX?


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
Congratz! Very Happy

I just bought the J12 my self to use with the new Sony. My guess is that the value of this lens will go up. Wink

What camera did you use recently? NEX?


I shoot with a full frame Canon EOS 6D mated to Contax SLR lenses and I have a tiny Olympus Pen E-PM1 for point and shoot stuff. The advantage for me here is a smaller, lighter full frame body and the ability to shoot with my tiny Jupiter-8 and (now) Jupiter-12 Smile Plus, I have some Prakticar lenses that are begging to be tested on ff (PB versions of Flek 20/2.8, 35/2.4, Pancolar 50/1.8 ).

I think the 6D will remain my go to camera for larger SLR lenses though, I had several Nex bodies before and found they were too small for most SLR lenses (my subjective view).


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
For those that have the A7 or A7r already, I'd really appreciate some opinions as to just how good is the EVF in practice when it comes to:
- WYSIWYG exposure/metering with manual lenses (as I understand it the EVF can show the exposure as it will be taken, unlike an OVF)
- Focus peaking and other manual focusing aids

I have no experience of NEX cameras or EVF cameras, I'm still debating between the A7/r and the 6D for an upgrade to FF from a 40D. My biggest reservation is the additional cost of at least one AF lens in the NEX FE system, but if exposure metering with the Sony using the EVF is significantly easier than using the OVF, histogram and remembering the aperture compensation using the 6D that might be enough to swing it for the Sony.

I'm hoping to get across to WEX in a couple of weeks to see is they have a shop demo model I can play with.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The EVF is wonderfull IMHO. Big, bright and responsive and very sharp!
Automatic change from screen to EVF when you put your eye against it.

Fokus peak works great too IMO. Just need some practise to nail it.

The EVF is much better than the one on EM-5. And it is so good that I don´t think of it as EVF.

It can get noisy in very dark scenes, and it shows some "moire" in all type of usec (jumping/ dancing pixels).

The leveling tool is also very cool inside the EVF, I feel like a pilot Very Happy


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm completely naive when it comes to EVF, so my questions are extremely basic.

Looking through the EVF with a manual focus, manual aperture lens in manual exposure mode - does the EVF show the exposure as it will be captured? i.e. if I open the aperture will the image brighten, if I select a shorter shutter speed the image in the EVF will darken? Or quite simply, is what is shown in the EVF pretty much what I will get when I download the image to PC.

I've been given to understand from what I've read about EVFs that they can be out into this sort of exposure preview mode. If what I understand is correct, this sounds extremely easy to use compared to my current experience using a 40D and having to remember the exposure-creep at different apertures using TTL metering.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
GeorgeSalt wrote:
If what I understand is correct, this sounds extremely easy to use compared to my current experience using a 40D and having to remember the exposure-creep at different apertures using TTL metering

on your 40D you also have liveview and you can set it in auto or manual brightness
on the 40D, focus peak should work with the magic lantern addon
when I had the 40D, I found the metering and wb quite accurate


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you both for your responses.

I didn't realise there was a stable Magic Lantern release for the 40D, it's been a while since I looked at ML and the last time I did the 40D was an almost non-existent ultra-low priority for ML development with dire warnings about the consequences of running the software on that model. I see now that the 40D is listed as Beta for the core ML features, which is an improvement on where things were.

I hadn't tried auto-brightness with liveview, I hadn't really considered that it might function as a WYSIWYG EVF for manual exposure. I will have to give this a try. I'm just used to using the OVF, and without a correctly coded chipped adapter and manual stop-down metering I always struggle to remember the degree of exposure compensation I need when using manual aperture lenses. Even wide-open I find that the required compensation with a correctly coded chipped adapter varies from one lens to another.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Automatic change from screen to EVF when you put your eye against it.

Is it possible to change that? I mean, disable this automatique change, in order to have only the EVF? (in order to avoid too much battery drain in some situation)

Few days ago, I tested it, I was also pleased by what I had in hands Smile


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Isn't the Pen a small format lens? I'd like to see some results from more mainstream MF lenses.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BurstMox wrote:
Quote:
Automatic change from screen to EVF when you put your eye against it.

Is it possible to change that? I mean, disable this automatique change, in order to have only the EVF? (in order to avoid too much battery drain in some situation)

Few days ago, I tested it, I was also pleased by what I had in hands Smile


Yes you can in menu 2.3 (Finder/Monitor or auto) Wink

I am slowly starting do get used to the A7R and I like it so far.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
Isn't the Pen a small format lens? I'd like to see some results from more mainstream MF lenses.


I will test Jena, Takumars, Meyers, Soligors etc. when I get my m42 adapter Wink

PEN is half frame yes

Last edited by Nordentro on Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jupiter 8, wide open, ISO 400 (resized and sharpened for web). Pretty nice lens to use! Very Happy



PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
Isn't the Pen a small format lens? I'd like to see some results from more mainstream MF lenses.


you should take a look on the web, there are tons of examples.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
Isn't the Pen a small format lens? I'd like to see some results from more mainstream MF lenses.

Samples of PEN E-P2 with MF lenses

http://forum.mflenses.com/enjoying-the-new-e-p2-some-early-photos-t48726.html

http://forum.mflenses.com/jupiter-12-l39-on-e-p2-t43399.html

http://forum.mflenses.com/tamron-sp-500mm-f8-on-pen-e-p2-t46862,highlight,%2Bpen.html

http://forum.mflenses.com/aus-jena-tessar-50mm-2-8-on-pen-e-p2-t48979,highlight,%2Bpen.html

http://forum.mflenses.com/steinheil-munchen-quinar-135mm-2-8-on-pen-e-p2-t49002,highlight,%2Bpen.html

http://forum.mflenses.com/industar-50-5cm-f-3-5-and1055-lzos-version-with-pen-e-p2-t51089,highlight,%2Bpen.html


You also have a lot of samples from WolverineX testing all his lenses, part of them with Olympus EM-D which is also a micro 4/3.
For instance, Pentacon 300mm f4
http://forum.mflenses.com/testing-my-lenses-part-121-pentacon-300mm-4-t62705,highlight,%2Btesting.html
Angenieux 35-70
http://forum.mflenses.com/testing-loaned-angenieux-35-70mm-2-5-3-3-t62432,highlight,%2Btesting.html

Here is a search result on WolberineX as author.
http://forum.mflenses.com/search,mode,results.html


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
Jupiter 8, wide open, ISO 400 (resized and sharpened for web). Pretty nice lens to use! Very Happy



So the J8 and J12 work great and give great IQ, that's very good to know as those are two of my favourite lenses, the J8 is probably my most used lens on my NEX-3. Smile


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
To follow up on George Salt's questions about the EVF, I've got another question: How does the screen handle bright sun conditions? And is this the reason why the camera has such a good EVF?

I'm kinda old school. If I have a choice, I'll go for peeking through a viewfinder over looking at the back of a camera, but there are certainly times when being able to view the back would be useful -- like overhead shooting, for example.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I revieved my A7 today. It's awesome!

But I also found some minor issues:
-Sony software really sucks but you need it for WLAN features etc., - no LiveView on PC, you have to install many programs and register everything, software GUIs are very confusing, slow,...
-Lightroom (I'm using 5.2) isn't able to open it's RAWs so I'm stuck to crappy "PlayMemories" Sad
-No external battery charger in the package - you have to load the camera via USB connection Shocked
-Charges only when in charging mode, not when connected to PC as mass storage or PC as remote etc. Sad Maybe they fit this whith the next firmware upgrade
-It exhaust batteries extremly fast, even faster than NEX-3/NEX-5 etc.
-You can choose ISO-range but can't choose shutter speed range

PS:
I've tested the ZM Biogon 35/2 for vignetting on A7 today Smile
Good news! It works!
@ F2 there is some vignetting but not very much. I can't see any color fringing etc.
@ F2.8 there's only a little vignetting in the extreme corners left
@ From F4 onwards vignetting is neglitable even when you shoot a white wall.

Last edited by ForenSeil on Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:55 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ForenSeil wrote:
I revieved my A7 today. It's awesome!

But I also found some minor issues:
-Sony software really sucks but you need it for WLAN features etc., - no LiveView on PC, you have to install many programs and register everything, software GUIs are very confusing, slow,...
-Lightroom (I'm using 5.2) isn't able to open it's RAWs so I'm stuck to crappy "PlayMemories" Sad
-No external battery charger in the package - you have to load the camera via USB connection Shocked
-Charges only when in charging mode, not when connected to PC as mass storage or PC as remote etc. Sad Maybe they fit this whith the next firmware upgrade
-It exhaust batteries extremly fast, even faster than NEX-3/NEX-5 etc.
-You can choose ISO-range but can't choose shutter speed range

PS:
I've tested the ZM Biogon 35/2 for vignetting on A7 today Smile
Good news! It seems to work like a charm!
@ F2 there is some vignetting but I think for most shots not field relevant. I can't see any color fringing etc.
@ F2.8 there's only a little vignetting in the extreme corners left
@ From F4 onwards vignetting is neglitable even when you shoot a white wall.


Thank you for the quick review Smile

The lack of a mimimum shutter speed setting in auto ISO is really frustrating, as most manufacturers include this now by default. It's not a major issue, but frustrating that Sony haven't implemented this on any of their cameras yet. I guessed the battery life wouldn't be great, and the USB charging sucks! Compatible chargers are cheap though.

Not sure if it helps, but for the time being you can download the Lightroom 5.3 release candidate to process files:

http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/lightroom5-3.html
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