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lenses with great character/rendering-dont care how sharp
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: lenses with great character/rendering-dont care how sharp Reply with quote
Looking for recommendations for some old, affordable lenses for video. The problem with most reviews and stuff I've read puts way too much importance on sharpness and technical performance. I don't really care about sharpness. I'm looking for great organic color, rendering, bokeh, etc. To be used on a Blackmagic Cinema Camera (so a bit smaller sensor than m43).

So far some of the Zeiss Jenas look good and some of the russian glass, but I'm sure there's lots more out there...


PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Chinon 1.7 55mm google it and look at the pics bokeh and colours are brilliant with this renders monet style bokeh
Jupiter 9
Helios 40


PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
eddieitman wrote:
Chinon 1.7 55mm google it and look at the pics bokeh and colours are brilliant with this renders monet style bokeh
Jupiter 9
Helios 40


Hi Andrew, nice to see you here. I had one of these Chinons for sale when I sold the Helios. They arent expensive, worth looking out for.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Which mounts can you adapt ( I have no experience with Blackmagic), what is affordable for you and what do you mean by great character? Do you want something very soft and dreamy, something with unusual bokeh, or a more conventional inexpensive lens with nice colors that does not have to be super sharp.

If it's the later that you want, then my recommendation would be Konica Hexanon 50/1.4 or Minolta MD 50/1.4. Both are no softies btw, but the biggest attraction is the color. Minolta has a very nice glow wide open.

Here's the thread with my Hexanon shots: http://forum.mflenses.com/konica-hexanon-50mm-f1-4-t48850.html

Ohh, btw, another candidate with great colors is Fujinon 55mm f1.8 http://forum.mflenses.com/fujinon-55mm-f1-8-t55667.html

Btw, I have two 50mm f1.4 Minolta MD's, so one of them is for sale for what I believe is very reasonable 65 Euros + postage along with many other lenses. I think I have the above mentioned Chinon 50/1.7 as well (labelled as Auto Revuenon in PK mount). The link to the full list is in my signature.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I saw, a few days ago, the kern lens in 75 mm. Excelent!!!!

There are, sure, kerns in shorter FL.

My two cents.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Try a trioplan 50: the 100mm would be an obvious choice, but the fl may be a bit limiting on sensors smaller than aps-c


PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fermy wrote:
Which mounts can you adapt ( I have no experience with Blackmagic), what is affordable for you and what do you mean by great character? Do you want something very soft and dreamy, something with unusual bokeh, or a more conventional inexpensive lens with nice colors that does not have to be super sharp.



Thanks for the replies. The camera is a MFT mount and I'm also planning on getting a MFT/contax zeiss mount speedbooster. I don't have the camera yet but should by the end of the week. I already have several m42 s-m-c takumars (55, 35, 135) and a Tokina 17/3.5 on the wide end but I'm just interested in hearing other options. I also have an Angenieux 15-150 zoom for super 16 but I'm not sure it will cover. So anything that can be adapted to mft, c/y, or m42 will work (although it's preferable that it can mount to c/y so it can be used with the speedbooster).

Another consideration for video is that whatever set of lenses I use have somewhat similar character so they can cut together relatively smoothly.

Basically I'm wanting to try some other lenses out to see what I like. As far as look, the blackmagic is a compromise because I can't afford film, so I'm fine with some softness, lens flare, etc in favor of richness and rendering, especially it cuts the digital edge a bit.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Yashinon 2/50 is my favorite in terms of rendering: http://forum.mflenses.com/evening-with-the-yashinon-2-50-t60954,highlight,%2Byashinon.html


PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:37 am    Post subject: Re: lenses with great character/rendering-dont care how shar Reply with quote
andrew4 wrote:
Looking for recommendations for some old, affordable lenses for video. The problem with most reviews and stuff I've read puts way too much importance on sharpness and technical performance. I don't really care about sharpness. I'm looking for great organic color, rendering, bokeh, etc. To be used on a Blackmagic Cinema Camera (so a bit smaller sensor than m43).

So far some of the Zeiss Jenas look good and some of the russian glass, but I'm sure there's lots more out there...


I have a Cosina 55/2 you can have for free, if you want to give it a try. M42 fit.
It was a standard lens on something, so not totally rubbish, just not all that good and if you want to see how it fares on your setup, you're welcome to it for the postage cost.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I love my Industar 61 L/Z (50mm/2.8 ). It's cheap, produces great colors, can focus pretty closely, and it has a preset aperture (which, if you're careful with it, you can pretend is a stepless aperture like cine lenses have - I have). The only issues might be the 6-sided-star bokeh between f4-8-ish (which is fun to play with, but likely won't resemble anything else you're likely to use) and maybe the 50mm size (which will be a pretty strong telephoto on the 2.4 crop, but that'll be a problem with most lenses)


PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
andrew4 wrote:
I'm fine with some softness, lens flare, etc in favor of richness and rendering

The director in me can understand that.
But as I started out in post and still consider myself first and foremost an editor it makes me want to cry.

Several of the very experienced DoP's I've worked with have quoted to me an adage I've always adhered to.

Maybe it's because we worked with film and generally only got one shot at it, but it's served us well, even now we've adapted to digital.
There's very little that can't be achieved in post these days.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: lenses with great character/rendering-dont care how shar Reply with quote
andrew4 wrote:
Looking for recommendations for some old, affordable lenses for video. The problem with most reviews and stuff I've read puts way too much importance on sharpness and technical performance.


That's because they are reviews for photographers. Video makers don't care about sharpness, rightly, because you simply
don't have any way to check it from images in constant movement.
For viewo making other image qualities are important. And also a mechanical factor like the focusing ring becomes decisive.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alternate Internet ID wrote:

The director in me can understand that.
But as I started out in post and still consider myself first and foremost an editor it makes me want to cry.

Several of the very experienced DoP's I've worked with have quoted to me an adage I've always adhered to.

Maybe it's because we worked with film and generally only got one shot at it, but it's served us well, even now we've adapted to digital.
There's very little that can't be achieved in post these days.


Useful advice.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: lenses with great character/rendering-dont care how shar Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
And also a mechanical factor like the focusing ring becomes decisive.

Absolutely.
If you can't usefully adapt or afford a follow focus then there's nothing worse than an iffy or badly placed focus ring.
In fact I'd go as far as to say all short legacy SLR lenses aren't mechanically suited for filming, even in controlled conditions.
Too fiddly.
Usable - very much so, especially if you are on a limited budget. Ideal - no.
Which is another reason in a previous thread I said I preferred the Tamron SP 90mm over the J9.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Buy few Meyer Domiplans. They seem to have really special characteristic from time to time Wink. No, really.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you like triplets, can take a schneider radionar, rodenstock ysarex, voigtlander voigtar or color lanthar, zeiss triotar, ikon pantar, and some japanese too. Not only the domiplan


PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I really like the rendering of my MC Rokkor 28/2.5 and 58/1.2 though you can substitute the MC 50/1.4 as its the same formula.
For compact stealthy shooting, the old Pen F lenses would be quite good.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


Wide-open on the Leica M9.

Jupiter-8, lowest priced 50mm focal length Sonnar formula lens that you will find.

Same lens on the Olympus EP2, wide-open.



The Jupiter-8 is compact, nice fit for smaller cameras.



I wrote an article for "Theme" about Sonnar lenses, here:

http://www.the.me/unique-blend-of-compactness-super-speed-and-perfect-imperfections-1930s-sonnar-lenses-on-the-leica-m9-and-m-monochrom/

I tend to favor Sonnars.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
+1 for Sonnars. Smile



On the left is a Jupiter-3 1.5/50, on the right a Sonnar 1.5/50.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
C-mount lenses! Very Happy


PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
For me, its early double gauss designs

take your pick from this lot
Agfa: Soligon
Angenieux: S-type
Astro: Kino, Tachar
Bausch & Lomb: Aminar, baltar, Raytar
Boyer: Saphir
Dallmeyer: Super Six
Enna: Annaston
Isco: Westagon
Kinoptik: Apochromat, Fulgior
Kodak: Ektar, Aero Ektar
Leitz: Elcan, f/1.2Noktilux,
Sumarrit, Summar, Summitar,
Summicron, Dygon
Meyer: Domiron
Rodenstock: Heligon
Ross: Xtralux
Schneider: f/2 Xenon, Xenogon
Steinheil: Quinon
Taylor-Hobson: Amotal, Ivotal,
Kinic, Opic Panchrotal, Speed
Panchro
Wollensak: Raptar
Wray: Copying Lens
Zeiss: Biotar, Flexon


PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another one comes to my mind: Steinheil München Culminar 2.8/85mm.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
JohnBar wrote:
For me, its early double gauss designs

take your pick from this lot
Agfa: Soligon
Angenieux: S-type
Astro: Kino, Tachar
Bausch & Lomb: Aminar, baltar, Raytar
Boyer: Saphir
Dallmeyer: Super Six
Enna: Annaston
Isco: Westagon
Kinoptik: Apochromat, Fulgior
Kodak: Ektar, Aero Ektar
Leitz: Elcan, f/1.2Noktilux,
Sumarrit, Summar, Summitar,
Summicron, Dygon
Meyer: Domiron
Rodenstock: Heligon
Ross: Xtralux
Schneider: f/2 Xenon, Xenogon
Steinheil: Quinon
Taylor-Hobson: Amotal, Ivotal,
Kinic, Opic Panchrotal, Speed
Panchro
Wollensak: Raptar
Wray: Copying Lens
Zeiss: Biotar, Flexon


Some of these are 8mm and super 8 lenses, so research them before jumping in.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There's a lot of errors in that list. The Wollensak Raptar is just a brand name, most Raptars were tessars. Same with the Kodak Ektar, another brand name and most Ektars were tessars, some were dialytes, some were heliars. There is no Leitz Elcan lens, Elcan was a division of Leitz, it stood for Ernst Leitz Canada. There's a load more errors too, it's just a mess, sorry.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The list came from here

http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Arts/photography/photproces/photogralens/carlzeiss/carlzeiss.htm

and referenced by this wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-Gauss_lens


jus' sayin'

eg
http://www.kpraslowicz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/135raptar.jpg

http://auctions.natcam.com/ebay/1steve/12inh.jpg

http://www.overgaard.dk/leica_history_grafik/elcan_75_douglas.jpg
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