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Nikon Mirrorless Cameras - J1 and V1
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:30 am    Post subject: Nikon Mirrorless Cameras - J1 and V1 Reply with quote
Nikon has came out with its own mirrorless cameras (J1 & V1) on a new system (Nikon 1 System).

Interesting info:

It is using 1" typed 10MP CMOS sensor therefore a 2.7x crop mirrorless camera.

Video: Full HD 1080p
ISO: 100-3200 (6400 Hi)
AF points: 73
Frames per second: 10 fps (Full adaptive AF); 60 fps (AF Locked)

More info:
http://nikon.com/news/2011/0921_digital_01.htm
http://dpreview.com/news/1109/11092120nikonlaunch.asp


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
2.7 crop means unusable for most of us for MF lenses...


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
i think it will sell some, just because of the Nikon name
but if it isn't viable option for using manual focus lenses, sales will not be as stellar as other mirrorless offerings out there. i think most of the boom of the mirrorless cameras is because their capability to use manual lenses that are , in most cases, much cheaper than AF lenses made specially for mirrorless camera


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
2.7 crop means unusable for most of us for MF lenses...

Agreed.


I've read a lot of speculation that Nikon intentionally downgraded the specs on the 1-system, so as to not cut into their DSLR sales. But instead of being competitive and not cannibalizing their own sales, this only leaves the door open for other companies to steal Nikon's customers!

Canon in particular must be thrilled by this announcement! Everyone else is investing in smaller and smaller formats, with APS-C being the largest.... can you imagine if Canon came out with a full-frame mirrorless body now? They'd clean up! Shocked

If you read the reactions to the Nikon, they've been overwhelmingly negative. It's too expensive for what it is, there's no evidence of manual control dials on the top or front to make it good for enthusiasts, the lens selection isn't great, the lenses are expensive, and the crop factor makes it unappealing for adapted lenses.

Not to mention that in the internet age, naming your system "1" is a terrible decision, as it is impossible to search for! Laughing

Time will tell how well this sells, but I'm guessing it won't sell very well. Neutral


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pictures always help. Wink


From Engadget:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/21/nikon-unveils-v1-and-j1-mirrorless-cameras-10-1mp-cmos-2-7-inc/


NEX-C3 on the left, Nikon J1 on the right.


A few from "This is my next":
http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/21/nikon-v1-j1-video-photos-camera-preview/


Samsung NX 200 on top, Nikon J1 on the bottom





Panasonic GF3 on top, Nikon J1 on the bottom


The tiny sensor might have made sense if they had made the whole system smaller... but they didn't. The camera with lens is pretty much the same size as any other mirrorless. Confused It also looks like the sensor is set pretty deep into the body - so perhaps not even ideal for C & D mount lenses?


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Might still be fun to use with cine/video lenses.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
2.7 crop factor dumbest thing on 2feet. wouldve been better if they ignored the mirrorless format altogether. this reminds me of their old aps cam foray, without the very few positive points of that format, like elongated prints. its a totally closed system-cant use it's lenses on other cams and really cant even use other nikon lenses on the new cam because crop factor renders anything over 35mm a peripheral piece of equipment. never liked nikon anyway! Laughing

Last edited by rbelyell on Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Am i the only one? It looks to me that the Nikon implementation leaves some "room" for a later version with a larger sensor, i mean look at all this plastic around the sensor in the posted pictures....who knows Question

For example, the contacts, that are large, are hold in place by two screws Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That looks really cute!.
Forget about the sensor size for a while - look how small the bayonet is. It will be an ideal system for the half inch c-mont and d-mount lenses.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
samples at iso 3200 and 6400

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=39404962


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks to me project manager of this mirror less project did come from Sony or Canon and it has one goal make an unsuccesful project to Nikon.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Are we being a bit harsh here. The images looks pretty god to me from a small sensor. Very clean at high ISO.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/NIKONJ1/NIKONJ1A7.HTM


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
No matter how clean or not , people with little knowledge will look crop factor first in my experience. I think lot more Canon, Nikon were sold than Olympus
even if image quality was close enough to each other. Not experienced people will be fine with phone and compact camera , experienced one not look for a 3x crop factor camera I am pretty sure. Especially if Samsung NX available for such a low price with excellent features I don't think so Nikon able to sell on that price or lower. Nikon has no 'glory' like Leica have , they not able to sell on their item on 2-3x more just because Leica.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
i dont think we're being harsh at all, when your 50mm lenses are turned into 135’s and your 135’s are turned into something over350! its useless unless your looking to invest hundreds of dollars in a totally closed system.

there are many advantages to the new spate of mirrorless cams, but the main one for folks like us is that all lenses in our collections, be they nikon, canon, leica, m42, m39, c mount etc are 'useable' on these cams. the 2.7 crop factor very simply renders those same lenses unuseable on this nikon that are useable on olly, sony, panny, ans samsung. i dont think we've been harsh enough! Laughing


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah I know the sentiment. I just wish now that Sony or Fujifilm comes up with a FF rangefinder version. Laughing Laughing


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stingOM wrote:
Yeah I know the sentiment. I just wish now that Sony or Fujifilm comes up with a FF rangefinder version. Laughing Laughing


It will very expensive , I think no matter for most of us, I will be more than happy with NEX-7 with EVF.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
stingOM wrote:
Yeah I know the sentiment. I just wish now that Sony or Fujifilm comes up with a FF rangefinder version. Laughing Laughing


It will very expensive , I think no matter for most of us, I will be more than happy with NEX-7 with EVF.


Around €1000 mark for a FF?


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stingOM wrote:
Attila wrote:
stingOM wrote:
Yeah I know the sentiment. I just wish now that Sony or Fujifilm comes up with a FF rangefinder version. Laughing Laughing


It will very expensive , I think no matter for most of us, I will be more than happy with NEX-7 with EVF.


Around €1000 mark for a FF?


I expect 3000 EUR for an FF

Make a FF RF camera is harder than FF SLR , even Leica had trouble with it as I know.

Main market for these cameras still point and shoot people for them doesn't matter FF or 1.5 crop and 1.5 crop cheaper , easier to make it and bring lot more profit than some FF camera.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
rbelyell wrote:
i dont think we're being harsh at all, when your 50mm lenses are turned into 135’s and your 135’s are turned into something over350! its useless unless your looking to invest hundreds of dollars in a totally closed system.

there are many advantages to the new spate of mirrorless cams, but the main one for folks like us is that all lenses in our collections, be they nikon, canon, leica, m42, m39, c mount etc are 'useable' on these cams. the 2.7 crop factor very simply renders those same lenses unuseable on this nikon that are useable on olly, sony, panny, ans samsung. i dont think we've been harsh enough! Laughing


Yes! And the problem becomes much much worse when you want a *really* wide lens. Nikon's widest for the system is a 10mm (27mm equivalent), which while "wide", isn't that wide. About the widest reasonable-cost ultra-wide for 35mm will be ~17mm, which is a 45mm equivalent with this crop factor! Shocked Your expensive ultra-wide lens is a normal on this system! Shocked

So where do you go? Even an 8mm fisheye is going to be ~22mm... and it's a fisheye!

For me, for using other lenses, the small sensor size just kills the practicality at the wide end. Sad


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
I expect 3000 EUR for an FF

Make a FF RF camera is harder than FF SLR , even Leica had trouble with it as I know.


I think the real winner would be a FF mirrorless that *isn't* a rangefinder. Just take any standard FF DSLR with live-view, remove the mirror box, and make the live-view permanent. Cost wise, it could even come in at less than the cost of the FF DSLR, as there are fewer parts, particularly way fewer mechanical parts (lower assembly costs) and less materials used to make it.

Another benefit is that you wouldn't even have to design any lenses at the introduction - just introduce the body and an adapter to use the huge base of existing FF lenses.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Agree, it would be a perfect camera to us, but... makers has serious profit come from lenses I doubt they love to see our manual focus mania.
Just if we see Canon vs Nikon Canon made legacy lenses to unusable (FD on EOS) and they got far more profit than Nikon who was user friendly and kept F mount.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
nex 7 at 24mp is sony's 'professional' play. that leaves only fuji. all together now 'cmon fuji'!


PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:

Make a FF RF camera is harder than FF SLR , even Leica had trouble with it as I know.


AFAIK the hard part is to support RF lenses that come very close to the FF sensor; the larger the sensor and the shorter the distance, the more ”sideways” the light will hit the edges. So this same problem would actually occur even with non-RF mirrorless cameras if used with certain RF lenses… of course manufacturers of new systems do not need to officially support existing lenses like those in the Leica lineup so they could just ignore this (but lose some benefits of mirrorless by not being able to use such lens designs).


PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
it will find a place in the world - i am very shure
The needs of MF users obviously wasn´t the main objective in Nikons research, even they offer an adapter for F mount lenses
60pic/s film with the possibility to shoot additional 3 full resolution pictures during this time...needs a big computer in the camera ( unfortunately it hasn´t got a fan, otherwise you could use the camera as hairdryer )
Nikon is strong in scientific and industrial optics, look at the possibilities in this areas with cams like these
thers are ( reported ) people in the world, that don´t care for bokeh and DOF, but for under all circumstances sharp and "perfect" pictures - the fastest autofocus system known today in a consumer cam - isn´t that a reason for some users ? 27mm equivalent is enough for most tasks and ISO 10K at f 4-6 is enought for dark scenes
MF users can relax - Nikon dosn´t force them to spend money - what a great company


PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes , it's not for us , I am still waiting for a mirrorless full frame with in body image stabilisation Smile
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