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Complete Helios Lens list anyone?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: Complete Helios Lens list anyone? Reply with quote

Do you by any chance know a site that has a complete list of helios lenses ..Or better, with somewhat extensive knowledge on them..


PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if it's a complete listing, but you should try http://m42.artlimited.net/site_search.php?s=helios&fmi=&fma=&ami=&ama=
Actually it's not complete for sure, covers only the m42 mount Smile


PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, was the first site i looked at..not close to complete.. thanx anyway


PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What exactly do you want to know ?

This site, for example,

http://zenit.istra.ru/catalog/lenseslist.html

gives a list of the KMZ Helios lenses. But it doesn't include those made in other factories. And it certainly doesn't include the Japanese Helios lenses such as the 2.8/135. I think that you might have to visit a number of sites.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I'd be willing to answer anything specific about these lenses...I've spent an unholy amount of time researching the in-and-outs of these lenses. A complete list is certainly possible but I'm not exactly sure how useful it would actually be...considering the wide variation even in samples of the same model #.

~Marc


PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some time ago, I posted a list 50mm Helios lenses. Here is my actual version (intent on M42):

all 44 and 77 are based on CZJ Biotar (1936), 77 has shortened focal length

  • Helios 44 (35/14 or 36/17), M39, 8 or 13 blades, pre-set
    • KMZ
      • silver (similar to Biotar)
      • zebra (e.g. 1970)
      • black(?)
    • MMZ
      • silver - similar to Biotar (e.g. 1960?)
      • zebra
  • Helios 44 M42, 8 blades, pre-set, black + white lettering, KMZ, 0xxxx samples only (?)
  • Helios 44-D (41/21) - mount for KMZ Zenit automat D
  • Helios 44-2 (38/20), 8 blades, pre-set M42
    • KMZ
      • black + white lettering (e.g. 1971)
      • classic version (black + colored lettering, e.g. 1974)
    • JOV (e.g. 1974-1982)
    • MMZ
      • zebra (e.g. 1971-72)
      • black + white lettering (e.g. 1973-74)
      • classic version (black + colored lettering) - similar to JOV (e.g. 1982)
      • redesigned version - similar look to 44-3 (e.g. 1989)
  • 44-3 MC (?/?), 8 blades, pre-set - only by MMZ, not common, said to be better than 44M and 44M-4 (e.g. 1986-93)
  • 44-3M (?/?), 8 blades - rare, MMZ, "M" after number "3" means Macro (joinable to special macro bellows, e.g. 1992)
  • 44M (38/19), 8 blades, A/M switch - KMZ, common, "M" after "44" means M42 screw-mount (e.g. 1981-82)
  • 44M MC (38/19), 8 blades, A/M switch - KMZ, rare (e.g. 1981)
  • 44M-4 (38/19), 6 blades, auto - JOV (1984-89)
  • 44M-4 MC (41/20), 6 blades, auto - KMZ
  • 44K-4 MC (41/20), 6 blades, auto - KMZ, K-mount
  • 44M-5 MC (41/20), 6 blades, auto - JOV (e.g. 1991)
  • 44M-6 MC (45/25), 6 blades, auto - JOV
  • 44-7 (36/17 or 41/21), 6 blades - older than 44M series, special design (1971?)
  • 44M-7 MC (50/30), 6 blades, auto - 1993, JOV, superb sharpness - esp. corners
  • 77M MC ("MS") (45/25?) 50/1.8, in fact 52/1.8, 6 blades, auto - manufacturer unknown, improved Biotar design (e.g. 1992)
  • 77M-4 MC (45/25) 50/1.8, in fact 52/1.8, 6 blades, auto
    • JOV
    • Vologda


There are several versions of 44-2 (these pictures are just examples, full list is above):

1. MMZ 1st model "zebra" - same barrel as MMZ version of 44(-1)



2. MMZ 2nd model - white lettering, glossy paint



3. KMZ - colored lettering



4. JOV - colored lettering



5. MMZ 3rd model - similar to KMZ and JOV model



6. MMZ 4rd model - new barrel




[photos by J.Vacek / jvtdesign - thanks]

other Helios lenses:

Helios 65 50/2 (35/14)
Helios 70 52/1.9 (KMZ, M42)
Helios 79 45/2 (range-finders, M39?)
Helios 81N / 81a 50/2 (N mount, ZA)
Helios 89 30/1.9 (fed mikron)
Helios 94 50/1.8 (N mount)
Helios 97M 52/2 (48/27, KMZ)
Helios 98 28/2.8 (Zorki 12, M39?)
Helios 103 53/1.8 (Kiev/Contax)
Helios 113 40/1.8 (FED, M42)
Helios macro 85-210/3.8-22 1:3-1:10


Last edited by no-X on Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:52 pm; edited 13 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no-X wrote:
44-3 (?/?), 8 blades - only by MMZ, not common, said to be better than 44M and 44M-4


Only one I have, and like a lot Smile


PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 44-3 too Smile It was my first M42 lens, but I have never used it. I bought it, beacause many Foveon users suggested this lens as cheap, sharp and durable solution. I must say, that 44-3 and other MMZ lenses has better build, than later KMZ/JOV 44M and 44M4, which have often stiff focusing ring.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're forgetting the 40 and 40-2 Wink


PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helios 40 series aren't 5x mm. There are many Helios series. 40 and 44 are just the best known.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't think this topic was confined to 5x mm Helioses.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The topic wasn't, but my post was Smile


PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could this be sticky'd or added to the website as it comes up quite a bit.

Maybe the factory logos added too?


PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most factory logos are here http://cameras.alfredklomp.com/ Very Happy


PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no-X wrote:
The topic wasn't, but my post was Smile



I guess it's just a case of lack of clarification, as I was referring to the

"other Helios lenses:"

portion of your post Wink


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so who knows anything about this 44-7 Macro???


Click here to see on Ebay


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Macro? Why do you think?

I'd say it's:

44-7 (36/17 or 41/21), 6 blades - older than 44M series, special design (1971?)


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it is a macro lens. Just a rare standard.

http://www.commiecameras.com/sov/35mmsinglelensreflexcameras/cameras/zenit/index.htm

Scroll down to "Zenit 7"


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, OK, sorry, a friend forwarded me the Ebay listing as a "Helios Macro" so, in the excitement, I posted without looking carefully. You're both right, it doesn't say macro in the listing at all Laughing Rolling Eyes Laughing


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know where I can find an optical diagram for Helios-81M?

Some Ebay listings always say it's a Sonnar copy, but I want to make sure Smile Thanks!


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No way. It's Biotar-like (double gauss 6/4) lanthan lens:

http://www.zenit.istra.ru/archive/lenses/helios-81.html


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no-X wrote:
No way. It's Biotar-like (double gauss 6/4) lanthan lens:

http://www.zenit.istra.ru/archive/lenses/helios-81.html



Great!! (And Great site!!) Thank you very much for the info!


PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I added some date examples to particular vesions:

http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,95951.html#95951

It's quite interesting. The oldest 44-2 (zebra) is from MMZ (~1971). It seems, that production in MMZ lasted to 1973 or 1974 (the last MMZ version of this era has white lettering). Than production of 44-2 was moved to JOV and KMZ. When JOV and MMZ switched to auto-aperture 44M and 44M-4 after 1981, production of pre-set 44-2 was moved back to MMZ. MMZ version manufactured in early 80s is similar to previous JOV version. In late 80s MMZ redesigned the barrel of 44-2 (redesigned 44-2 is rare) and developed 44-3, which was multi-coated (44-2 wasn't). 44-3 was manufactured at least to 1993.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 44-2 when multicoated, was 44M (after improved 44M4, 5,etc).

Well. 44-3 is the 44-2 multicoated. And then, 44-3 = 44 M?

Am I wrong?


PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there were two product lines:

1. pre-set line: 44 (13 blades) -> 44-2 (8 blades) -> 44-3 (8blades + MC)

2. auto-line: 44M (8 blades, A/M switch) -> 44M-4 (removed AM switch, reduced number of blades -> 44M-4 MC (better resolution, MC layers). Following versions only increased resolution.

pre-set 44-3 is actually newer than majority products of the "M" line

I think when JOV a KMZ switched to M line and mainly 44M-4, market still needed pre-set lenses, because the auto-lenses didn't work on old bodies. So production of pre-set lenses was moved to smaller factory (MMZ), which manufacturing capacity was sufficent to manage demands of old-zenit users.

Code:

MMZ:     44-2: 1971-1973 ->\                       /-> 44-2: 1982-late 80' + 44-3: late 80'- mid 90'
KMZ+JOV:                    \-> 44-2: 1974-1981 ->/ -> 44M -> 44M-4 -> 44M-5 -> 44M-6 -> 44M-7