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CHINON lenses COMPLETE LIST OF PRIMES M42 & PK
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Alpa Chinons Reply with quote

paulhofseth wrote:
I collected the entire spectrum of new Alpa-Chinons, remaindered, from a downtown NewYork store in the 1990es.

Chinon made wides, normals and telephotos as well as at least one zoom for Alpa. I assume that the lens-marketing deal came as a contractual obligation when when they had fallen upon hard times and could no longer only make their cameras in Ballaigues, but started to modify Chinon bodies.

Even a few of the famous apochromatic Macro Switar came in a Chinon mount once the Kern factory in Aarau found that their mount was too expensive to produce. I do not have time to take the snaps you might wish for, but assume that searching for it would bring up the sales brochures. Otherwise the Lothar Thewes book gives almost all Alpa facts.

p.


If you have documentation please post it, thats what this site is all about.

The Chinon/Chinar mounts I see are K mounts and M42 mounts. People claim Chinon did not manufacture glass, so if you have proof the did i would like to see it.

Real documentation not an opinioin.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Alpa Chinons Reply with quote

spiralcity wrote:
paulhofseth wrote:
I collected the entire spectrum of new Alpa-Chinons, remaindered, from a downtown NewYork store in the 1990es.

Chinon made wides, normals and telephotos as well as at least one zoom for Alpa. I assume that the lens-marketing deal came as a contractual obligation when when they had fallen upon hard times and could no longer only make their cameras in Ballaigues, but started to modify Chinon bodies.

Even a few of the famous apochromatic Macro Switar came in a Chinon mount once the Kern factory in Aarau found that their mount was too expensive to produce. I do not have time to take the snaps you might wish for, but assume that searching for it would bring up the sales brochures. Otherwise the Lothar Thewes book gives almost all Alpa facts.

p.


If you have documentation please post it, thats what this site is all about.

The Chinon/Chinar mounts I see are K mounts and M42 mounts. People claim Chinon did not manufacture glass, so if you have proof the did i would like to see it.

Real documentation not an opinioin.


This cuts 2 ways, no one has proved they didn't make them either. There has been similar debates about Mamiya glass.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Alpa Chinons Reply with quote

Blue wrote:
spiralcity wrote:
paulhofseth wrote:
I collected the entire spectrum of new Alpa-Chinons, remaindered, from a downtown NewYork store in the 1990es.

Chinon made wides, normals and telephotos as well as at least one zoom for Alpa. I assume that the lens-marketing deal came as a contractual obligation when when they had fallen upon hard times and could no longer only make their cameras in Ballaigues, but started to modify Chinon bodies.

Even a few of the famous apochromatic Macro Switar came in a Chinon mount once the Kern factory in Aarau found that their mount was too expensive to produce. I do not have time to take the snaps you might wish for, but assume that searching for it would bring up the sales brochures. Otherwise the Lothar Thewes book gives almost all Alpa facts.

p.


If you have documentation please post it, thats what this site is all about.

The Chinon/Chinar mounts I see are K mounts and M42 mounts. People claim Chinon did not manufacture glass, so if you have proof the did i would like to see it.

Real documentation not an opinioin.


This cuts 2 ways, no one has proved they didn't make them either. There has been similar debates about Mamiya glass.


Hi Blue, I seen you over at the Penatx forum.

I dont want to sound rude, but I disagree with your statemnet. It dosent cut both ways. Without documentation it becomes nothing but opinion, and we all have opinions. Im looking for truth.

By the way: Im a believer that they did manufacture lenses, I just cant prove it.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Alpa Chinons Reply with quote

spiralcity wrote:
Blue wrote:
spiralcity wrote:
paulhofseth wrote:
I collected the entire spectrum of new Alpa-Chinons, remaindered, from a downtown NewYork store in the 1990es.

Chinon made wides, normals and telephotos as well as at least one zoom for Alpa. I assume that the lens-marketing deal came as a contractual obligation when when they had fallen upon hard times and could no longer only make their cameras in Ballaigues, but started to modify Chinon bodies.

Even a few of the famous apochromatic Macro Switar came in a Chinon mount once the Kern factory in Aarau found that their mount was too expensive to produce. I do not have time to take the snaps you might wish for, but assume that searching for it would bring up the sales brochures. Otherwise the Lothar Thewes book gives almost all Alpa facts.

p.


If you have documentation please post it, thats what this site is all about.

The Chinon/Chinar mounts I see are K mounts and M42 mounts. People claim Chinon did not manufacture glass, so if you have proof the did i would like to see it.

Real documentation not an opinioin.


This cuts 2 ways, no one has proved they didn't make them either. There has been similar debates about Mamiya glass.


Hi Blue, I seen you over at the Penatx forum.

I dont want to sound rude, but I disagree with your statemnet. It dosent cut both ways. Without documentation it becomes nothing but opinion, and we all have opinions. Im looking for truth.

By the way: Im a believer that they did manufacture lenses, I just cant prove it.


Then provide your documentation to the contrary.


http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Chinon
Chinon - Camera-wiki.org - The free camera encyclopedia

http://photoguide.jp/txt/PhotoHistory_1940s
Photo Guide

Quote:
1943 Chino Hirishi established Sanshin Seisakusho which, in 1973, became Chinon Industries. The company makes lens barrels and mounts for cameras such as Olympus, Ricoh, and Yashica. It would be 11 more years before the company would make its first lenses. the company was killed off by hostile takover by kodak in 1997 when they finally gained a 50.1% share holding. (Laws were enacted in the US but not Japan to prevent Kodaks habit of buying and killing companies. Agfa and Gaevert merged to prevent a hostile Kodak takeover, as did Ciba and Ilford; others were not so lucky.)
as per http://photodevoto.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/known-history-of-photography-a-timeline/[/url][/url]

Last edited by Blue on Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:52 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Alpa Chinons Reply with quote

Blue wrote:
spiralcity wrote:
Blue wrote:
spiralcity wrote:
paulhofseth wrote:
I collected the entire spectrum of new Alpa-Chinons, remaindered, from a downtown NewYork store in the 1990es.

Chinon made wides, normals and telephotos as well as at least one zoom for Alpa. I assume that the lens-marketing deal came as a contractual obligation when when they had fallen upon hard times and could no longer only make their cameras in Ballaigues, but started to modify Chinon bodies.

Even a few of the famous apochromatic Macro Switar came in a Chinon mount once the Kern factory in Aarau found that their mount was too expensive to produce. I do not have time to take the snaps you might wish for, but assume that searching for it would bring up the sales brochures. Otherwise the Lothar Thewes book gives almost all Alpa facts.

p.


If you have documentation please post it, thats what this site is all about.

The Chinon/Chinar mounts I see are K mounts and M42 mounts. People claim Chinon did not manufacture glass, so if you have proof the did i would like to see it.

Real documentation not an opinioin.


This cuts 2 ways, no one has proved they didn't make them either. There has been similar debates about Mamiya glass.


Hi Blue, I seen you over at the Penatx forum.

I dont want to sound rude, but I disagree with your statemnet. It dosent cut both ways. Without documentation it becomes nothing but opinion, and we all have opinions. Im looking for truth.

By the way: Im a believer that they did manufacture lenses, I just cant prove it.


Then provide your documentation to the contrary.

Chinon - Camera-wiki.org - The free camera encyclopedia

http://photoguide.jp/txt/PhotoHistory_1940s

Quote:
1943 Chino Hirishi established Sanshin Seisakusho which, in 1973, became Chinon Industries. The company makes lens barrels and mounts for cameras such as Olympus, Ricoh, and Yashica. It would be 11 more years before the company would make its first lenses. the company was killed off by hostile takover by kodak in 1997 when they finally gained a 50.1% share holding. (Laws were enacted in the US but not Japan to prevent Kodaks habit of buying and killing companies. Agfa and Gaevert merged to prevent a hostile Kodak takeover, as did Ciba and Ilford; others were not so lucky.)
as per http://photodevoto.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/known-history-of-photography-a-timeline/


I posted this bit of info already, thanks for reposting.

And you may want to reread my last post.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Alpa Chinons Reply with quote

spiralcity wrote:


I posted this bit of info already, thanks for reposting.

And you may want to reread my last post.


In this particular thread?


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:42 pm    Post subject: no proof of who made them, but the fingerprint says"Chi Reply with quote

I appreciate the quest for evidence.

My glass is engraved "Auto-Alpa", or in some cases, "for Alpa Swiss" with "Japan" engraved on the lens flange. Like the Alpa Takumars they had M42mounts and would fit in Alpas M42 to Al adapter. No sign of Chinon, but the contemporary Chinon catalogue indicates equivalence. You may also compare the Alpa 3000 and its lens with the similar Chinon and draw your own conclusions. Thewes also elaborates on this.

The answer to whomever were behind Chinon at the time might well be as intricate a web as the current relationship between Zeiss and Chinon or Voigtlnder and Chinon today. I leavethat to the Japanese to unravel.

If no one else can scan the Alpa brochure and photograph the lenses, I will. when I have time, post snaps.

p.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would seem that up until about 1971, the company that became known as Chinon was Sanshin Seikakusho. That company had made components for Yashica, Olympus and Ricoh as well as interactions with Alpa,


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Alpa Chinons Reply with quote

Blue wrote:
spiralcity wrote:


I posted this bit of info already, thanks for reposting.

And you may want to reread my last post.


In this particular thread?


No Blue. quite some time ago. This argument comes up every now and then.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiralcity wrote:
Chinar was made or distributed from Korea, a division of Chinon...


Even if that is true, it has so little to do with Japan Chinon lenses, we'll exclude them from this list.

@Blue: It's strange how http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Chinon says nothing of CHINON Alpa and Tomioka connection. Someone should update their data.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pancolart wrote:
spiralcity wrote:
Chinar was made or distributed from Korea, a division of Chinon...


Even if that is true, it has so little to do with Japan Chinon lenses, we'll exclude them from this list.

@Blue: It's strange how http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Chinon says nothing of CHINON Alpa and Tomioka connection. Someone should update their data.


I know what you mean. I used to have a site marked with information about Alpa "giving" Chinon a 35mm body design. This site mentions it in the discussion of the CEII Memotron.

http://www.thecamerasite.net/01_SLR_Cameras/Pages/chinon.htm


http://www.alpa.ch/en/about/history/1976/1976.html?year=2011&num=3

auto-alpa lens by Chinon

http://www.alpareflex.com/Lenses/Chinon_28_28.htm


PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pancolart wrote:
spiralcity wrote:
Chinar was made or distributed from Korea, a division of Chinon...


Even if that is true, it has so little to do with Japan Chinon lenses, we'll exclude them from this list.

@Blue: It's strange how http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Chinon says nothing of CHINON Alpa and Tomioka connection. Someone should update their data.


Well. it is true and it is a Chinon, so a complete line of Chinons should include all lenses correct?

Just a thought, after all it is your list.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiralcity wrote:

I dont need to post a link I have all the proof i need.

Here's real documentation of the connection of the two names.



Well, this proves only that Chinon USA has distributed also Chinar lenses. It doesn't say anything about relationship between Chinon and Chinar lenses and companies.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dimitrygo wrote:
spiralcity wrote:

I dont need to post a link I have all the proof i need.

Here's real documentation of the connection of the two names.



Well, this proves only that Chinon USA has distributed also Chinar lenses. It doesn't say anything about relationship between Chinon and Chinar lenses and companies.


Yea, you must be right. LOL. Geeeez


PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have posted some information about Japanese glass foundries and the relationship between Chinon, Tomioka, Tokina etc. within the following thread:
http://forum.mflenses.com/exclude-the-tomioka-impostor-t40764,highlight,%2Btomioka.html

It would be helpful to have the precise years when Chinon camera models and lenses were marketed because that may give an indication as to the manufacturer (and quality) of the lenses.

When was the first Chinon SLR camera with interchangeable lenses released?

Also sample pics are always welcome.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chinon definetly started a Korean factory. I not only have the Chinar glass marked from Korea and released through Chinon, I also have 3 Chinon branded lenses marked Korea.

Somewhere along the line they started a Korean connection.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. But i am sure it deserves new topic:
http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,1148992.html#1148992


PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue wrote:
I know what you mean. I used to have a site marked with information about Alpa "giving" Chinon a 35mm body design. This site mentions it in the discussion of the CEII Memotron.

I have read that the Memotron was made by Cosina. Cosina did make a camera that looks almost identical to my CE-3.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: CHINON lenses COMPLETE LIST OF PRIMES M42 & PK Reply with quote

Pancolart wrote:
I'll skip zooms. There are many and most probably from too many subcontractors.

Regarding the primes there are two obvious lines: older M42 (only) and later PK (& M42) also sold as REVUENON, AGFA, possibly Avanar, Auto-Cintar...

Please correct my mistakes and add your suggestions. Links to descriptions, photos and reviews will be appreciated.
You are free to manipulate the list yourselves. Triggered questions will be dealt at the time.



CHINON PRIMES :


older line M42:

3.5/21mm (Tomioka)
2.8/35mm ?? http://m42.org.ua/275 (link no longer useful)
2.5/24mm. "tapered barrel" series, mid-late 1970's. Tamron. Small scan from chinon catalogue here.
2.8/28mm "tapered barrel" series. Tamron. See http://blog.bkspicture.com/review_Expert_28mm_f2.8.html
2.8/35mm "tapered barrel" series. ?tamron. See http://blog.bkspicture.com/review_Expert_35mm_f2.8.html
1.9/50mm
1.7/55mm coated & MC version (Tomioka)
1.4/55mm coated & MC version (Tomioka)
1.2/55mm (Tomioka) http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevemckenzie/tags/tomioka
2.8/100mm (Tomioka) http://forum.mflenses.com/tomioka-auto-chinon-100-2-8-t28433,highlight,%2Bchinon.html
2.8/135mm. "tapered barrel" series. Tamron. See http://blog.bkspicture.com/review_Expert_135mm_f2.8_M42.html
3.5/200mm "tapered barrel" series. Tamron. Pic here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/userreviews/tamron-adaptall-200mm-f-3-5-ct-200.html
5.6/300mm "tapered barrel" series. Tamron. See http://blog.bkspicture.com/review_Expert_300mm_f5.6.html

The "tapered barrel" series are also found with Expert (?Scandinavia) and Alpa (Switzerland) nameplates, presumed due to distributional agreements.

300mm and 35mm, x-post.


Last edited by marcusBMG on Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other thread moved on already, so I'll answer your question here - no, I have not come across any other prime lenses in the "tapered" series, neither Chinon nor Expert, so they aren't very common, I guess.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Chinon tapered series are good lenses, I have the 300 / 5.6 which is excellent. Like a fool I sold the 200 and regretted it. I believe there are other lenses in the series but I've never seen them.

I also have a Chinon Auto 200 / 3.5 in M42 mount that is OK, just a bit above average.

Shorter lenses...the PK mount Auto Chinon MC 50 / 1.7 is very good, the 55 / 1.7 Auto Chinon with the early 'leather look' grips is also very good. But the Chinon Auto Reflex 28 / 2.8 disappoints me, I think it should be sharper - maybe mine is a bad one?


PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject: references Reply with quote

The call for reliable references above reminded me that there are two issues here.

* The issue I commented on above is on Alpa being among the flavours of Chinon optics.

The referance i gave to Thewes assumed that you all were familiar with his work, so I neglected to provide an exact reference. His book on Alpa "50 jahre anders als alle andere" is ISBN 3-928126-14-8 and was published by Lindeman. In the first edition, the info on Chinon starts at page 69. The second edition is slightly enlarged. Another reference is a tri-lingual work by Alfred Columberg endorsed by the last chairman of Pignons, dated 2004, but no ISBN number. It has the Alnea logo on the front and three tiltles; the one in English is "A Swiss photo-camera".

Both works are quite thorough, with camera serial numbers and lens production numbers, although prototypes and (factory approved) modifications do occur without being listed. The US Alpa and Kinoptic distributor, Karl Heitz did for instance provide some long manual Kinoptic lenses with genuine Alpa mounts, even if those focal lengths did not occur in the Pignons catalogue. In those cases they came with Kinoptic bayonet sunshades and front caps and not with the Alpa snap-in and clip-on variety.

* As to whether Tomioka made the innards, and Chinon the mounts, that needs other evidence. Here Japanese historians will have to contribute, looking at company cross-holdings and speaking with anyone still able to be interviewed.

The only piece of info I can contribute is that in the case of the last few Macro Switars (which came in M42 mount + adapter), Kern had made the innards and apparently Chinon the mechanics of the lens.

p.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a circa 1983 K-mount 50mm 1.9, min aperture = 16, weight = 4.9oz, aperture ring is plastic.

I didn't keep any test shots. It was a quite good lens, very comparable IMO to my Super Tak 50mm 1.4.

#3


#2


#1


ETA: I have a few other lens photos to share, and some questions, but I may have to wait for moderation of my 1st post.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCS wrote:
This is a circa 1983 K-mount 50mm 1.9, min aperture = 16, weight = 4.9oz, aperture ring is plastic.

I didn't keep any test shots. It was a quite good lens, very comparable IMO to my Super Tak 50mm 1.4.

#3


#2


#1


ETA: I have a few other lens photos to share, and some questions, but I may have to wait for moderation of my 1st post.



Welcome here! Thanks for joining! Now your images will show!


PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:
Welcome here! Thanks for joining! Now your images will show!


Thanks!

This is a circa 1979 K-mount 50mm 1.9, min aperture = 16, weight = 6.1oz, aperture ring is aluminum.

It looks identical to the lens in my first post, but has obvious differences: 1.2oz heavier, metal instead of plastic aperture ring, different SN imprint.

#1


#2


#3


I'm not sure, but I think this lens was made a few years earlier than the lens in the previous post (cost cutting in later versions?)

Here are samples from this lens. K5, handheld. These are just snapshots taken to evaluate focus accuracy, color rendition, etc.
#1



#2 Aperture wide open



#3 Aperture f/8