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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: My little identification discovery: Tomioka myth busted |
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Pancolart wrote:
Please see this topic for Tomioka alternatives search: http://forum.mflenses.com/the-story-of-mitake-t64648,start,15.html _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS
Last edited by Pancolart on Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:29 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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buerokratiehasser
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 470
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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buerokratiehasser wrote:
Yes yes the SUPER carenar! and believe me if you take it in hand it feels even "bigger" (compared to the nice 55 mm baubles) |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
I suspect even the notorious M42 1.8/35mm fits!
http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=43783 _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Huh, tough luck for Tomioka myth. Here COSINA 2.8/100mm:
_________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
5/300mm:
Frequent brand names: Eyemik, Photax-Paragon, Doron-Color, Revuenon-Special, Weltblick...
Here M42 2.5/24mm:
And the craziest one of them all: 1.8/135mm PORST / Mitake from this topic: http://forum.mflenses.com/its-huge-porst-135-1-8-t24111,start,30.html
_________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I had that 5/300, it was absolute garbage, well made, all metal but the IQ was excreable.
I had one if these too:
I forget what brand it had on it now, Prinzflex maybe. Again, it was garbage.
Honestly, I don't think it matters who made these bottom rung of the ladder lenses, they are crap. At the time they were made, people were using them to produce low quality 6x4 lab prints so their crappiness wasn't exposed like it is when you put them on a modern 12mp or higher digicam and discover a whole world of optical abberations and softness.
To be tongue-in-cheek, trying to id these old lenses is like trying to working out what dog left a particular pile of poo on the pavement. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
But Ian you now compare everything to Biogon F5.6 .
Frequent brand names used: Eyemik, Photax-Paragon, Doron-Color, Revuenon-Special, Weltblick, PORST-WW, Spiratone Plura-coat. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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buerokratiehasser
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 470
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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buerokratiehasser wrote:
It's still not out who really made these, the 135/2.8 seems built differently (like, it has no A/M at all.) |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Both versions exists. You can see forefather here including the typical DOF scale symbol:
From this topic:
http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=33372 _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Velectron
Joined: 03 Dec 2012 Posts: 13 Location: Singapore
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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Velectron wrote:
Why notorious? I think I have this lens under the brand of Formula 5. Canon FD mount with older bluish coatings prone to wear. It perform pretty nicely I think, just that it is very prone to flare. Night scenes are definitely no-no.... |
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Mos6502
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Posts: 960 Location: Austin
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Mos6502 wrote:
Will anybody explain what identifies these lenses as Cosina products? |
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casualcollector
Joined: 01 Aug 2008 Posts: 749 Location: Spaced out on Florida's Space Coast
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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casualcollector wrote:
Good detective work! _________________ In Search Of "R" Serial Soligors
Found: 135/2.8 #R407660, 200/4 #R405526, 300/5.5 #R411127 |
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: My little identification discovery: Tomioka myth busted |
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dimitrygo wrote:
It seems this Revuenon Special has completely different mount construction.
That Eyemik 100mm F2.8 is for sure not Tomioka but how do you know it's Cosina?
I think several DOF marks presented in this thread are different, rather rounded than square, and I also think this square kind of DOF mark is also associated to Tokina. |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
Pancolart: Unless I missed something, you didn't say where this revelation came from and how. _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
And what is so bad about COSINA?
Just because it was built by Cosina a lens is not necessarily garbage!
Yes, there might be some lenses that were built by them and which are bad.
But there is a reason why Zeiss cooperates with Cosina, isn't it?
And all my Voigtländer lenses for Leica were built by Cosina and those lenses are simply amazing!! _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Pancolart wrote: |
But Ian you now compare everything to Biogon F5.6 . |
Yes, this is true.
However, there are some cheap lenses that are good and some that are good only as paperweights. I think it's important to try to highlight examples of both the good and the bad so people can avoid them. I remember that 5/300 well, really nice feeling lens, very well built, but it was so bad it was useless. Bad compared to anything else I've tried, not just the good stuff. Considering all the cheap nasty lenses i tried looking for good ones, for anything to stick in my mind as truly awful it must have been pretty bad. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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TrueLoveOne
Joined: 30 Sep 2012 Posts: 1839 Location: Netherlands
Expire: 2013-12-24
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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TrueLoveOne wrote:
Interesting..... indeed the Revuenon 135 Special looks indentical to the 200 Pentor i was asking questions about. I had the Revuenon, and it was not bad!
I do still have that Revuenon special 35mm. I still need to give it a try. It's new, forgotten old stock from a shop.
That 5/300 lens you are showing: I do have that exact one as well. But with the name "Kenlock" on it. Never gave it a try either....
I will make some time to give them all an honest try and put some pics up without any post processing. Now I want to know wether it is really garbage or not.... because the 2.8/135 was certainly not.
And if they really are Cosina, they've made some fine lenses in the past! _________________ My Flickr photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/chantalrene/
Sony A7, Canon 5D mkII, Minolta 7D + RD3000 and some more.....
Minolta and Konica collector.... slowly selling all the other stuff! |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
woodrim wrote: |
Pancolart: Unless I missed something, you didn't say where this revelation came from and how. |
It's a revelation indeed . Maybe like Sherlock Holmes said: "when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
Besides i do have few Cosinon lenses of the series above.
Frankly there is contender i cannot fully dismiss: Komine. But Komine is even more mystic then Tomioka.
The idea would only seem possible in case Vivitar Komine lenses are all newer and improved.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35322441@N00/4107174951/
A possible transitional lens from old style to Vivitar kind:
http://allphotolenses.com/lenses/item/c_985.html
Anyway if there are better ideas i'd gladly accept them. The line shares quite distinctive features that are pointing to one manufacturer. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS
Last edited by Pancolart on Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mos6502
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Posts: 960 Location: Austin
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Mos6502 wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
And what is so bad about COSINA?
Just because it was built by Cosina a lens is not necessarily garbage!
Yes, there might be some lenses that were built by them and which are bad.
But there is a reason why Zeiss cooperates with Cosina, isn't it?
And all my Voigtländer lenses for Leica were built by Cosina and those lenses are simply amazing!! |
Cosina in the 1970s was a much different outfit than it is today. But then again not everything they made back then was rubbish either. They made some pretty solid cameras for a number of brands.
Nobody has yet said how they could tell these lenses were made by Cosina, so I'm still wondering. |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7788 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
I gave one of these, under a different name that I can't remember now, to Ian a while back. I was about to throw it away, it was dire. But I thought I'd get a second opinion. _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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dimitrygo wrote:
Tokina lenses with this DOF marks:
200mm F3.5
300mm F5.5
200mm F2.8
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7788 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
The first lens shown - the 135 2.8 - looks very like this, so alike I think they are probably the same
But this is a Cimko
Other lenses I have with a similar distinctive aperture mark are.
Vivitar 2.8 135 Komine
Chinon Auto Reflex 2.8 28
Photax 3.5 200 maybe Tokina or Cosina ?
I know the aperture marks ar edifferent, but there is a style. _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I don't think it's possible to identify a lot of these lenses by barrel styles, I think there were companies supplying barrel parts to various lens makers, hence we see lots of lenses with similarities. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 6557 Location: Ireland
Expire: 2013-12-27
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:04 am Post subject: |
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Farside wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
I don't think it's possible to identify a lot of these lenses by barrel styles, I think there were companies supplying barrel parts to various lens makers, hence we see lots of lenses with similarities. |
Oh hell, yes. There were many parts-bins specials knocked out at that time. Some buyers insisted on choosing a particular set of body parts for some degree of house style, while others didn't really bother too much and I suspect many of the smaller photo-shops/supply houses didn't care, bottom-feeding their way along the end-of-line and bankrupt stock, etc, then doing some re-branding of their own in a garden shed _________________ Dave - Moderator
Camera Fiend and Biograph Operator
If I wanted soot and whitewash I'd be a chimney sweep and house painter.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:15 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Farside wrote: |
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
I don't think it's possible to identify a lot of these lenses by barrel styles, I think there were companies supplying barrel parts to various lens makers, hence we see lots of lenses with similarities. |
Oh hell, yes. There were many parts-bins specials knocked out at that time. Some buyers insisted on choosing a particular set of body parts for some degree of house style, while others didn't really bother too much and I suspect many of the smaller photo-shops/supply houses didn't care, bottom-feeding their way along the end-of-line and bankrupt stock, etc, then doing some re-branding of their own in a garden shed |
Well said Dave. Companies like Dixons sold all sorts of stuff under different brand names, and they also sold stuff with the maker's own brands, it's a very confused situation.
Also, how many lens makers were there in Japan? A LOT. We don't know what deals existed between the likes of Tokina, Sun, Kobori, Makina, Cima etc. They might have cooperated more than we realise.
Finally, even if you can identify the maker of a lens, it's pretty irrelevant anyways as you have little indication from this about the lens' quality or abilities. Tokina, for example, made both great lenses and crappy ones at the same time and in the same series. for instance, the RMC primes, the 3.5/17, 2.8/24 and 2.8/28 are all really good, but the 2.8/135 and 5.6/400 are not so good and the 3.5/200 and 4.5/300 are pretty poor. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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