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How to increase popularity of film
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The mass photography market has left film behind and won't come back. But the niche areas, in which I include amateur/enthusiast, professional and artist, will always turn to film if the task warrants it as just another means to an end result. The cost, not of the film itself but the 'overheads', becomes less important.
Anyway....
Some niche users may have got a bit happy on digital and been hooked by evangelistic converts. They will return! If only occasionally.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This chap talks about how much it all costs...


http://www.edbuziak.workzsites.com/darkroom_film_processing_costs.html


PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is an interesting thread. I have a couple of Zenits that arrived with lenses I bought. I keep thinking that they would provide an extra camera for free! But then I remember all the hassle of my film cameras ie. having to finish a whole film before seeing any results, having to pay for the whole roll being developed and printed only to find 2 good prints from a roll of 36. Sad With digital my poor shots don't matter and I rarely get prints done, so the cost is minimal. What costs and equipment would be involved to just develop the negatives which I can then scan into the computer?

Pete


PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mad_Sunday wrote:
What costs and equipment would be involved to just develop the negatives which I can then scan into the computer?

For colour neg, a five litre Tetenol kit will work out about 90p/roll; for B&W, about 30p or less. Bulk film is still easy to come by and scouring ebay for out-of-date stock in rolls is worthwhile.
Processing equipment costs for B&W are minimal - pick up a Paterson tank for less than a tenner; for colour you can still do it really cheaply using a home-made waterbath, but the way I've chosen to go is to get an old-model Jobo for €29, which will replace the Paterson processor that got smashed in the post.



Xpres wrote:
This chap talks about how much it all costs...


http://www.edbuziak.workzsites.com/darkroom_film_processing_costs.html

Ed had a bit of a darkroom clearout recently and I have a box of his expired film. Be interesting to see how it goes.

His costs on that article were a mere twenty pounds per week, but of course, back in the late Seventies, twenty pounds was worth much more, probably triple in today's terms.
Still, it's not really that much in total for a three decade heavy user of film.

Last edited by Farside on Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mad_Sunday wrote:
What costs and equipment would be involved to just develop the negatives which I can then scan into the computer?


The fact of having 2 good pictures on 36, depends on you. I don't think that people do miss shoots on digital on purpose, when you want to have a good picture, i don't see why you would miss it if you take your time Very Happy

now equipment : there are threads about, but quickly you need a equiped tank ( reel included which is the most important as you put film into ) bottles, water supply, gloves etc. plus chemicals. Cost of all is about 50€ and you can develop up to 20 films depending on the developer. C41 for color films goes up to 16 films , but maybe more. The kit costs 20€ ( Tetenal C41 )


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hexi wrote:
Mad_Sunday wrote:
What costs and equipment would be involved to just develop the negatives which I can then scan into the computer?


The fact of having 2 good pictures on 36, depends on you. I don't think that people do miss shoots on digital on purpose, when you want to have a good picture, i don't see why you would miss it if you take your time Very Happy

now equipment : there are threads about, but quickly you need a equiped tank ( reel included which is the most important as you put film into ) bottles, water supply, gloves etc. plus chemicals. Cost of all is about 50€ and you can develop up to 20 films depending on the developer. C41 for color films goes up to 16 films , but maybe more. The kit costs 20€ ( Tetenal C41 )


You also need paper, a paper safe, timers, dark room lights, weighted clamps, squeegees, tongs, trays,dark bag, drying rack, and more.

All my dark room stuff cost me quite a bit in USD. Way over the 50 euro that you mention.

If your just going to develop the negs then scan them, then it would be much cheaper. A tank, some chemicals, clamps, squeegees, and your pretty much set. I actually thought we were talking complete dark room techniques, not just developing negs.

Last edited by spiralcity on Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:58 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
"If your just going to develop the negs then scan them, then it would be much cheaper"

Yeah thats what I wanted to hear Smile

So where do I find the info regarding the "how to" of turning exposed film into a negative. I'm assuming that I simply scan the negative and then invert the colours in my "digital darkroom"?

Pete


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mad_Sunday wrote:
"If your just going to develop the negs then scan them, then it would be much cheaper"

Yeah thats what I wanted to hear Smile

So where do I find the info regarding the "how to" of turning exposed film into a negative. I'm assuming that I simply scan the negative and then invert the colours in my "digital darkroom"?

Pete


I dont like scanning negs on my scanner. I would have to buy a better scanner in my case... Shocked MORE MONEY! Twisted Evil

Be sure you buy a tank. I have two sizes pictured below. One will hold 4 rolls 0f 35mm film the other 1 roll. The small tank is GREAT to start with.



You will also need some weighted clamps as pictured below.



You will also need a GOOD squeegee. My squeegee is garbage, I need a new one. The photo below is from a store on the web.



Once you have these basics, you are well on your way.

If you need help developng negs, you can send me a PM and I will help you.

I do believe we will have a area dedicated to this shortly.

Last edited by spiralcity on Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You're right spiralcity a full lab costs more, but the first step is to develop the film . So my price given would be close.

I'm doing developing in order to learn a bit about it, have regular results, understand then avoid errors, have fun too Very Happy and join a photo club in some times, surely next year and then see how to do prints, cause that's the final aim. At least i'll come with some negatives already.

Way much cheaper, but i know you need an enlager, then chemicals again ( but some developer can do negatives and prints ) then paper. And space and time Very Happy

Mad_Sunday wrote:
I'm assuming that I simply scan the negative and then invert the colours in my "digital darkroom"?


If it's b&w you just scan the negative, in color case its the same way, no postprecessing needed afterwards, you invert nothing. You see what's on the negative, kinda digital viewer.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for your input guys. I found this wikipedia page that gives me the basics (it looks like some of you could help improve upon what they have) and I'm really thinking this might be fun Smile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_tank

I'm going to check out costs for a film scanner and the tank, reel and weights etc.

Pete


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you plan a good tank, i suggest the Paterson System 4. Just because of the very easy loading system and besides it can take up to two reels. Easily foundable on ebay, i've seen some new ( ironic for a 30 yo thing )

As for the weights, a cheap system can be done using a clothes peg one, preferably in wood, in one of them just attach something heavy like your cat Wink

by the way check the developing thread here on the forum, it can give you some answers > darkroom


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mad_Sunday wrote:
So where do I find the info regarding the "how to" of turning exposed film into a negative. I'm assuming that I simply scan the negative and then invert the colours in my "digital darkroom"?

Pete

Right here on this forum! Wink
http://forum.mflenses.com/bandw-developing-essential-answers-t3238.html

The scanning software generally takes care of converting neg to pos. Not long ago the software couldn't cope with the orange cast of colour neg. film but they've sussed that really well now.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
Mad_Sunday wrote:
So where do I find the info regarding the "how to" of turning exposed film into a negative. I'm assuming that I simply scan the negative and then invert the colours in my "digital darkroom"?

Pete

Right here on this forum! Wink
http://forum.mflenses.com/bandw-developing-essential-answers-t3238.html

The scanning software generally takes care of converting neg to pos. Not long ago the software couldn't cope with the orange cast of colour neg. film but they've sussed that really well now.


Thanks! Very informative Smile I cannot access the final (3rd) page tho? Sad

BTW can anyone recommend a film scanner that works with Linux?

Pete


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Vuescan works with Linux, just check out the list of supported scanners. http://www.hamrick.com/vsm.html


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mad_Sunday wrote:
Thanks! Very informative Smile I cannot access the final (3rd) page tho? Sad

BTW can anyone recommend a film scanner that works with Linux?

Pete

Don't worry, there is no page 3. This has been happening occasionally recently, we think it's because someone deleted all their posts and the thread shrink back to 2 pages.

I've got an Epson v700, primarily because I wanted to do 120 film (and I liked the flat top Smile). The v500 is much cheaper and has the same lens system I believe, but only does 135 film and slides. I just checked and you can download a Linux driver for both machines on their site. http://www.epson.co.uk/Support


PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't know about Linux compatibility, but the Epson 500 is a damned good scanner at a really reasonable price.

Prepare to be shocked by how easy it is to scratch a neg and how hard it is to keep dust from appearing in the finished digital file.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Scratch a neg ... never occured, i had other troubles. About dust, its amazing how it catches it fast ! I suggest not to use the cleaning tool from the scanners, rather carefully clean your negative with an antistatic rag, then put them right away into the protective sheets.

If you plan to scan only, but will do prints of some, take some time to have a pefect neg, cause dust on a scan is nothing, its much more disturbing on a print.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another avenue that hasn't been explored is to mate with like-minded
females. This would increase the population, anyway. Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Katastrofo wrote:
Another avenue that hasn't been explored is to mate with like-minded
females. This would increase the population, anyway. Laughing



Good idea in principle but I don't know any.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
PaulC wrote:
Katastrofo wrote:
Another avenue that hasn't been explored is to mate with like-minded
females. This would increase the population, anyway. Laughing



Good idea in principle but I don't know any.


+1


PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm getting the feeling you guys aren't trying hard enough... Laughing


PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Katastrofo wrote:
I'm getting the feeling you guys aren't trying hard enough... Laughing

Very Happy

I'm doing my bit. I've got 7 135x36 rolls to developed soon - 3 various colour neg (including your Walgreens, Bill), 1 PanF to do myself, 2 e6 (a Provia 100F and a Kodak E100G), and my first roll of BW400CN. I'm not expecting a lot as most of the shots were with cameras or lenses I was testing, but I might be lucky. More to follow.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Peter, looking forward to seeing these. Would like to see this Kodak E100G
film, how it compares to others.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've just bought 5 rolls of Portra and my scanner's arrived. I have most of the kit for processing my own B+Ws (that bit scares me!) and more 35mm cameras than I can shake a stick at.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Katastrofo wrote:
Peter, looking forward to seeing these. Would like to see this Kodak E100G
film, how it compares to others.

Bill, thanks. I bought a box of 5 rolls of E100G over a year ago. I didn't like it too much, it has an overall blueish cast and no matter what I do with PS, I can't correct it. I'm using it up as and when I can, but not for important shots. The 35mm pictures I took of Oxford were on E100G, they're still up if you want to see them. Looking at them again I'm still not impressed. Smile
http://forum.mflenses.com/my-city-t6752,highlight,oxford.html
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