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Annoying Phraseology
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The over use of the word "stunning" when applied to boring lens test snapshots, when clearly they are not "stunning" photographs. A photograph such as the little girl running down the road after being napalmed could rightly be called "stunning", boke shots of leaves are not.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kryss wrote:
Hi kuuan... If it wasn't so expensive I would ship you tons of snow,we have far too much in Canada this year.Anyway you and yours have a very merry and safe Christmas and a fantastic New Year.Regards


Yep, kryss is right. Regarding the snow this year.
I already shoveled around 4 foot of snow out of my driveway. And I have a big one.
The winter just began.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Merry Christmas, when I lived in Montreal in 70s( South shore) We loved the snow because it was an excuse to party on Crescent St.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
anscochrome wrote:
The over use of the word "stunning"


+1 agree that word really is stunningly misapplied.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Whatever.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The phraseology that annoys me is when people refer to a film camera as an analog camera.

Photography with film is a chemical process and the term "analog" is not adequate to differentiate between a camera that uses film and a camera that process the image electronically. The sensor in a camera that we all refer to as digital actually receives the light in analog form which is then converted into digital format, so it could be argued that they are both analog cameras.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kryss wrote:
So you have minty..Trousers, shoes ,car,bicycle,Wife etc. I don't understand how it should apply to photographic equipment.


What?

Anyway, in my experience with this forum's members, (and I have said this before) I'm impressed with member's language skills. Having grown up in the US, a second language was never a necessity. Sure, I took the mandatory years of a second language in school, in my case, Spanish. However, I never had enough opportunity to use it to the degree that I would become more proficient, so I have forgotten all but the basics. Many here in the US have grown up using slang and unfortunately, many do not use proper English. After all these years, I'm still learning things about grammar and still finding mistakes I make.

I'll bet most English speaking people do not understand the difference between words such as disorganized and unorganized; disinterested and uninterested; lit and lighted; hanged and hung; and the list goes on and on. I actually find English more interesting now than when I had to study it in school. I try to be more careful with my grammar today, but still catch myself making silly errors. And in recent years I seem to be making more typos than ever before. At times I type an entirely different word than I was thinking; I have no explanation for that.

Certain words are confused on a regular basis, for instance then and than, and use and used. When speaking in the past tense, it should always be used except when after the word did or didn't. As examples... I used to own film cameras. Or, didn't you use to own film cameras? There are still many examples of wording that I find difficult to remember.

I do not have much of a problem with mnty as slang for near mint condition. In these cases when referring to lenses or other items, the word mint is borrowed from the coining process at a government Mint. The word is most used in coin collecting to mean perfect, or as it came from the Mint. A mint or minty flavor is another meaning of the same word.

There is something that is said here in MFL in different ways. I would not say that it is at all irritating to me, but technically, the words do get misused. I'm talking about aperture, which has several associated words that get interchanged. I'll give my understanding of the words and then it should be better understood when to use each of them. They are:

Aperture - The number designation that represents the focal length divided by the diameter of the lens opening.
Diaphragm - The multi-bladed (most often) device internal to a lens which limits light throughput.
Iris - The opening of the diaphragm that allows the light throughput.

Do those sound like fair definitions? So, the diaphragm will open or close with the rotation of the aperture ring, creating an iris of a size relative to the lens focal length which is defined by numbers on the aperture ring.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:

Do those sound like fair definitions? So, the diaphragm will open or close with the rotation of the aperture ring, creating an iris of a size relative to the lens focal length which is defined by numbers on the aperture ring.


Sounds fair. But people tend to simplify and I bet most of us will use the word aperture as before.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
kryss wrote:
So you have minty..Trousers, shoes ,car,bicycle,Wife etc. I don't understand how it should apply to photographic equipment.


What?

Anyway, in my experience with this forum's members, (and I have said this before) I'm impressed with member's language skills. Having grown up in the US, a second language was never a necessity. Sure, I took the mandatory years of a second language in school, in my case, Spanish. However, I never had enough opportunity to use it to the degree that I would become more proficient, so I have forgotten all but the basics. Many here in the US have grown up using slang and unfortunately, many do not use proper English. After all these years, I'm still learning things about grammar and still finding mistakes I make.

I'll bet most English speaking people do not understand the difference between words such as disorganized and unorganized; disinterested and uninterested; lit and lighted; hanged and hung; and the list goes on and on. I actually find English more interesting now than when I had to study it in school. I try to be more careful with my grammar today, but still catch myself making silly errors. And in recent years I seem to be making more typos than ever before. At times I type an entirely different word than I was thinking; I have no explanation for that.

Certain words are confused on a regular basis, for instance then and than, and use and used. When speaking in the past tense, it should always be used except when after the word did or didn't. As examples... I used to own film cameras. Or, didn't you use to own film cameras? There are still many examples of wording that I find difficult to remember.

I do not have much of a problem with mnty as slang for near mint condition. In these cases when referring to lenses or other items, the word mint is borrowed from the coining process at a government Mint. The word is most used in coin collecting to mean perfect, or as it came from the Mint. A mint or minty flavor is another meaning of the same word.

There is something that is said here in MFL in different ways. I would not say that it is at all irritating to me, but technically, the words do get misused. I'm talking about aperture, which has several associated words that get interchanged. I'll give my understanding of the words and then it should be better understood when to use each of them. They are:

Aperture - The number designation that represents the focal length divided by the diameter of the lens opening.
Diaphragm - The multi-bladed (most often) device internal to a lens which limits light throughput.
Iris - The opening of the diaphragm that allows the light throughput.

Do those sound like fair definitions? So, the diaphragm will open or close with the rotation of the aperture ring, creating an iris of a size relative to the lens focal length which is defined by numbers on the aperture ring.


I agree with all of the above. We are lazy with our English.

And although I know the difference between Iris, Aperture and Diaphragm I often use aperture and iris interchangeably that is just laziness. People mixing depth of focus and depth of field annoys me as does analog(ue) when used to describe non digital photography. The only analogue photographic process i am aware of was old style camcorder video recording. As it used an analogue signal. Image making on film uses a complicated chemical process not an electronic signal.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Getting back to the incorrect use of the word MINTY in describing something in as new or better condition.

1 Minty..Having the flavour or aroma of mint.
Adjective..Mintier,Mintiest.

2 Minty (slang)..Homosexual or Effeminate.

There is no such word as Minty relating to newly minted coins or any other object that is new or to describe it as such, So you are welcome to use the word either in description 1 or 2, or continue to be ignorant of the English language.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kryss wrote:
Getting back to the incorrect use of the word MINTY in describing something in as new or better condition.

1 Minty..Having the flavour or aroma of mint.
Adjective..Mintier,Mintiest.

2 Minty (slang)..Homosexual or Effeminate.

There is no such word as Minty relating to newly minted coins or any other object that is new or to describe it as such, So you are welcome to use the word either in description 1 or 2, or continue to be ignorant of the English language.


You are absolute right. However; there is the valid phrase of "mint condition" with a different meaning and there are at least two meanings I know of:

1. Coins still untouched coming from the mint and
2. Vinyl records in unplayed or mint condition.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards, Thomas


PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
While I see kryss' point, and pretty much understand it, I think there would be better places and moments to pull out this sort of pedantry.
I mean, this is (as far as I understand) a gear-oriented forum with users from all over the world: the commonly understandable language is an amazingly powerful tool.
In my opinion, to have this tool working at its best it needs to satisfy two fundamental requirements:
first, it needs to be clear enough for the concepts discussed, then it needs to be shared by as many people as possible, so that the potential knowledge base is as wide as possible.
With these premises, I'd happily accept terms as "minty" - that when used here will refer to an item being in like mint condition 99% of the times, no matter what dictionaries say - and "stunning" refered to a lens performance on a boring shot, because they are extremely clear for a huge number of people natively speaking different languages.
Then there are situations in which I find the "grammar-nazi" attitude extremely useful, and I too tend to be on the purist side when speaking about my native language: simply I don't think it's a much pertinent and productive attitude in this specific context.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Every year new words are added to the dictionary. This past year selfie was added. That word was also improper until it became widely accepted as a short for self portrait with a cell phone camera. But for the record, I prefer to say near mint rather than a cutsie word like minty. Did I say cutsie?


PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The new words added each year are mainly added by the younger generation, either because they are uneducated or lazy or both,if this trend continues, in 15-20 years conversation will have regressed to Neanderthal grunts.Fortunately, I will not be around to witness.Only my opinion,but I feel the best years for civilization have passed and started to declined since 1980s.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kryss wrote:

There is no such word as Minty relating to newly minted coins or any other object that is new or to describe it as such, So you are welcome to use the word either in description 1 or 2, or continue to be ignorant of the English language.

Oh, so now we know what bee is in your bonnet.
Minty Smile

For me; it's the wrong proununciation of data, status, have, hotel, etc, the list is long.
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