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The New way forward? Ricoh GXR
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:07 am    Post subject: The New way forward? Ricoh GXR Reply with quote
Check this out: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/RicohGXR/

Interchangeable sensor? Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's a fascinating idea. The problem is that instead of having to buy one high-price part (the lens) you have to buy two (lens + sensor). Surely this must make it more expensive than an equivalent DSLR.

As I understand it, the reason our cameras cost so much is primarily because sensors are expensive to produce.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmmm . . . it almost seems more like a solution in search of a problem to me. I'm skeptical that this sort of system will become popular.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I believe this is a dead idea, it will never go to production or/and it will never be same popular than current technologies.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, it is a fascinating idea.

You will have a closed unit (lens and sensor) and therefore no more problems with dust etc. Furthermore you get always an aligned (optimal sensor for the lens type) combination.

As you can see on dpreview the costs (basic unit + lens unit) will be higher than others.

Maybe that there is another problem. Due to the fact that the sensor resolution of each unit is different you will get different results within a serie so the look and feel isn´t homogeneous

Furthermore it is a (closed) Ricoh standard with no other supplier (at the moment ?)



Wink


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
PaulC wrote:

As I understand it, the reason our cameras cost so much is primarily because sensors are expensive to produce.


The small sensors used in compacts and cell phones may cost less than a dollar each if you buy by the crate - and one-two generation outdated APS-C size sensors are somewhere in the low tens. Ok, a current FF or medium format sensor may cost as much as $100-500, but these would be too big to mate to the GXR, and even they are not expensive in relation to the lenses and mechanics of the associated camera systems.

The idea to integrate the fairly cheap electronics with the expensive lens rather than the expensive user interface is unusual, but it is not wrong - it might even be less wrong than the traditional sensor-body integration, as sensor and lens have optical interdependencies while the grip controls and sensor have none.

Hard to tell whether Ricoh got that right in this first attempt, it certainly does not seem to be designed in a cost effective way. But the idea behind it is not as stupid as it may seem.

Last edited by Sevo on Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I pray that this idea wrecks.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This idea not allow to use MF lenses, so I DON'T LIKE AT ALL. Twisted Evil


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was quite surprised by the samples quality at 800 or 1600 iso.

I find it an interesting engineers' R&D project.
Imagine those people working in a think tank.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sevo wrote:
PaulC wrote:

As I understand it, the reason our cameras cost so much is primarily because sensors are expensive to produce.


The small sensors used in compacts and cell phones may cost less than a dollar each if you buy by the crate - and one-two generation outdated APS-C size sensors are somewhere in the low tens. Ok, a current FF or medium format sensor may cost as much as $100-500 . . .


I recently read a Canon white paper that discussed this topic. Canon claims that the FF sensors are very expensive to make, and represent a major portion of the price of their FF cameras.

Not gonna agree or disagree -- just passing it along.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
This idea not allow to use MF lenses, so I DON'T LIKE AT ALL. Twisted Evil


True...that was my first reaction as well.

What is more evident in general is that Ricoh appears to be on their own in its development. If it does not catch on it will dissappear like a drop in an ocean.

It is going to be usuccessful IMHO as people do not want another FD to EOS transition (just an example...you know what I mean) as they do not like to be left behind. Just my 2 cents.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
I pray that this idea wrecks.

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Why?


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It kinda ultra new transformer of modern age, albeit small. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shiladitya wrote:
Attila wrote:
This idea not allow to use MF lenses, so I DON'T LIKE AT ALL. Twisted Evil


True...that was my first reaction as well.

What is more evident in general is that Ricoh appears to be on their own in its development. If it does not catch on it will dissappear like a drop in an ocean.

It is going to be usuccessful IMHO as people do not want another FD to EOS transition (just an example...you know what I mean) as they do not like to be left behind. Just my 2 cents.


They will never come out, this is commercial only to make free advertise for Ricoh I believe this.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A brave, bold, dead end.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You know, I really *like* this idea... I'm assuming the lens/sensor unit is easier to make than an entire camera - so Ricoh could just make all the strange lens/sensor units that specialist markets want. If they make the one you want, and no-one else does, you'll buy the camera. And, then, maybe you'll get another unit later on...

For example: a black and white only APS-C sensor with the 28mm GR lens? That'd be pretty special - and no-one is going to make a black and white only camera any time soon...


PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:25 am    Post subject: surprised at reaction! Reply with quote
Wow! such negativity. Surprised

Personally I can see many advantages:
The whole system seems predicated on favouring 'niche markets', e.g. specialist combo of sensors and lenses, which (to me) indicated small production runs, so the flexibility in manufacturing must be factored into the design.
I think this could opens the door for a 'legacy' M42 system, or even PK, given Ricoh's ancestry.

Well, more so than anything else on the market now.

Capturing marginal opportunities must figure prominently in the smaller manufactures ambitions, and the success of the micro 4/3's adaptability with many manual lenses can't have not been noticed by Ricoh...
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