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Rollei Planar 1.8/50: if you have it, keep it !
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
taunusreiter wrote:
Orio wrote:
I read somewhere that the Singapore lenses were build in the Mamiya facility.

All Rollei/Zeiss/Voigtländer "Made in Singapore" lenses were actually made in the huge ROLLEI factory in Singapore which was closed 1981 in the big Rollei bankcrupty. What happened to the factory later I don't know.

Re: the 50/1.8 Planar: According to Dr. Tronnier jun., son of the designer of this lens, the GERMAN made Planar (7 elements/ 6 groups) was the last design of A.W.Tronnier and was changed to a simpler 6/4 design when Rollei moved production to Singapore. I haven't opened both lenses to confirm this.



Hmmmm, I don't think that makes sense; the "seventh" element of the 50/1.8 is the very first element, concave in the original Carl Zeiss Ultron 50/1.8, but changed to a more traditional convex, yet very flat primary element with the Color-Ultron 50/1.8, identical to the HFT Planar 50/1.8. The Rollei one I have that is definitely made in Singapor has the exact same flat looking primary element as my Color-Ultron and the HFT Planar that looks identical to it.

Ref.
http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Rollei_QBM_Zeiss_dt.html
http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Bessa_RF_histo.html


PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Taunusreiter wrote:

Quote:
All Rollei/Zeiss/Voigtländer "Made in Singapore" lenses were actually made in the huge ROLLEI factory in Singapore which was closed 1981 in the big Rollei bankcrupty. What happened to the factory later I don't know.


That should be easy to find out by asking some of the knowledgable people in the newsgroup I already mentioned. They almost all come from Malaysia/Singapore, and many of them love to use MF-lenses, especially those made by Zeiss.

http://www.shutterasia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22378&page=50


PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Little did I know that the two links I gave above was to "taunusreiter"'s own site Laughing Ignorance is bliss!! Just want to say I've found your site immensely informative, and have made purchase decisions based on it more than a couple times in the past several months Smile


PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
One on ebay? With camera attached. Wink


PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Has someone tested the lens on a 5dii?

Are there also any infinity issues?


PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have finally got a very good EOS-Rollei adapter (previous one was not very good). So I shoot a series of tests with the Rollei Planar 1.8/50.

My tests conferm (empirically) what Marco Cavina reports in his article: this lens is really sharp wide open! In this test series you have a wide open shot first followed by a stopped down shot. You can see that in all the wide open shots, the focused part is perfectly sharp, and you can really tell the smaller aperture of the stopped down shot by the depth of field only.

The colours are nicely realistic (not too warm not too cold).
The bokeh wide open is better, highlight-wise, than the Contax series (1.4 and 1.7). Stopped down, the bokeh becomes gorgeous.

This lens is really, probably, Erhard Glatzel's less known masterpiece. Note that my copy is a "humble" Singapore copy, 18 Eur cost.

Which confirms my impression: it doesn't really matter where a lens is build: what counts is the committant, the project, the materials and the workmanship. in my opinion, Zeiss managed to keep a high level of these production factors also in the abroad productions. I have yet to try a new "Z" lens so I can not comment on those. My impression from the Contax and Rollei lenses made abroad is, once again, absolutely positive.










P.S. to answer Magnet's question: note that in order to use this lens on a 5D MkII, you need to use live view for distances longer than 3mt.


PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shocked Shocked that's a damn good lens


PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
I have finally got a very good EOS-Rollei adapter (previous one was not very good). So I shoot a series of tests with the Rollei Planar 1.8/50.........

Orio, these are good samples and let me decide to keep mine.
Thanks. Smile


PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
I have finally got a very good EOS-Rollei adapter (previous one was not very good). So I shoot a series of tests with the Rollei Planar 1.8/50.........

Orio, please share your EOS-Rollei adapter. How much you get it?


PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
djmike wrote:
Orio wrote:
I have finally got a very good EOS-Rollei adapter (previous one was not very good). So I shoot a series of tests with the Rollei Planar 1.8/50.........

Orio, please share your EOS-Rollei adapter. How much you get it?


It costed 28.90 Eur
They are made by an italian man who builds mechanical optical components.
This is the Ebay shop:
http://stores.ebay.it/COMA-Costruzioni-Ottiche-Meccaniche
note that the photo of the Rollei-EOS adapter shows one without the metal plate that stops the aperture pin, but, they sell both, so when you buy make sure to let them know that you want one with the pin-blocking metal plate.


PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nesster wrote:
Shocked Shocked that's a damn good lens


Yes. So far I only met some selected (and costly) lenses which are sharp wide open as they are stopped down. This lens is one of them, except the cost.


PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks again Orio for your invaluable information about this lens - I found one this evening by chance and got it for €24.74 Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mal1905 wrote:
Thanks again Orio for your invaluable information about this lens - I found one this evening by chance and got it for €24.74 Very Happy


You're welcome!
I'm happy when I can share some knowledge that I have.


PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes , I'll keep my 2 copies (one made in singapore, one made in germany)


PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio thank you for the information about 5dii compatibility.

You don't use spilt focus screen, do you? That's why you recommend usage of the live view.


PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
magnet-2009 wrote:
Orio thank you for the information about 5dii compatibility.

You don't use spilt focus screen, do you? That's why you recommend usage of the live view.


Actually you HAVE to use live view with the Rollei Planar.
This because the lens does not clear the mirror at focusing distances longer than 3 mt
So if you want to photograph distant subjects, your only possibility is to do things in this order:

1- activate liveview
2- mount lens
3- shoot
4- remove lens
5- stop live view.


PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ok Orio I got it.

This must be a problem with digital bodies. The sensors are very sensitive to dust. The lens must be super special to work that way and take the risk to have dust on the sensor................

I would prefer lenses without 5d/5dii mirror problems.[ I have ordered my 5dii and I'll have it in 15-20 days [demand problems in Greece]


PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmmm, although I can't try it on my 5D, which does not have Live View, you should be able to:

Mount lens
Set focus to < 10m (I've tried on my 5D, mirror clears up to around 10m mark)
Turn Live View "on"
Shoot at any focus distance
Set focus to < 10m
Turn Live View "off"


Am I wrong?


PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is rawhead wrong? Very Happy


PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
Orio wrote:
So it looks like Zeiss did use HFT even for the lenses they produced in Oberkochen

I read that Rollei made by Zeiss use T*, it is called HFT for consistence with Rollei naming
Zeiss used 1 less lens element for the Rollei 85:2.8, I don't believe they do it to make it better but to do it cheaper.


Nope, the riffled SL lenses marked as "Made in Germany" were made by Optische Werke Voigtländer Braunschweig, as stated elsewhere


PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
dang!

I have two of these, the Singapore version. Got the first one for $10 I believe. Anyway I destroyed it (removed everything except the unit-focusing assembly) because I wanted to adapt it to Pentax (too long register distance). Well that failed...

The second one I have left alone, and it mounts on Pentax K! but, only focuses to c.a. 1.5m -- good enough for portraits.


PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
taunusreiter wrote:
poilu wrote:
Orio wrote:
So it looks like Zeiss did use HFT even for the lenses they produced in Oberkochen

I read that Rollei made by Zeiss use T*, it is called HFT for consistence with Rollei naming
Zeiss used 1 less lens element for the Rollei 85:2.8, I don't believe they do it to make it better but to do it cheaper.


Nope, the riffled SL lenses marked as "Made in Germany" were made by Optische Werke Voigtländer Braunschweig, as stated elsewhere


I don't know about SL lenses but my source is official from Zeiss Razz

Zeiss Camera Lens News 13 wrote:
The Planar®, Distagon®, Sonnar® lenses that Rollei produces under license from Carl Zeiss are all HFT coated by Rollei.
All the lenses that Carl Zeiss produces for Rollei at the Zeiss Oberkochen plant are actually Zeiss T*. coated.
However, the designation on these lenses is “HFT” in the interest of remaining fully consistent throughout the Rollei product range.


PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
taunusreiter wrote:
poilu wrote:
Orio wrote:
So it looks like Zeiss did use HFT even for the lenses they produced in Oberkochen

I read that Rollei made by Zeiss use T*, it is called HFT for consistence with Rollei naming
Zeiss used 1 less lens element for the Rollei 85:2.8, I don't believe they do it to make it better but to do it cheaper.


Nope, the riffled SL lenses marked as "Made in Germany" were made by Optische Werke Voigtländer Braunschweig, as stated elsewhere


I don't know about SL lenses but my source is official from Zeiss Razz

Zeiss Camera Lens News 13 wrote:
The Planar®, Distagon®, Sonnar® lenses that Rollei produces under license from Carl Zeiss are all HFT coated by Rollei.
All the lenses that Carl Zeiss produces for Rollei at the Zeiss Oberkochen plant are actually Zeiss T*. coated.
However, the designation on these lenses is “HFT” in the interest of remaining fully consistent throughout the Rollei product range.


So two different coatings have the same name? Thats great!

What about MC vs HFT on the rolleis? (see my question re: rollei 135)


PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Zeiss Camera Lens News 13 wrote:
The Planar®, Distagon®, Sonnar® lenses that Rollei produces under license from Carl Zeiss are all HFT coated by Rollei.
All the lenses that Carl Zeiss produces for Rollei at the Zeiss Oberkochen plant are actually Zeiss T*. coated.
However, the designation on these lenses is “HFT” in the interest of remaining fully consistent throughout the Rollei product range.


Obviously this is true for the present because the optical plant at Optische Werke Voigtländer in Braunschweig is long shut down, and there is only Oberkochen left.

Rumors say that in the 1970's the glass for the SL lenses was coming from Zeiss Oberkochen and then mounted in Braunschweig for complete lenses. But this can't be said for sure. In any way the SL, HFT coated lenses for the Rolleiflex SL35 were made in Braunschweig (home of the famous Apo Lanthar LF lens) before they moved it completely to Singapore. After all, Voigtländer was owned by Rollei to 100% 1973 and located in the same city, so they were virtually the same company (before, V. was owned by Zeiss)

They still produced the LF, MF stuff in Braunschweig, plus some single 35mm lenses like the "Rolleinar 55/1.4" I own, which looks perfectly like a Mamiya mount lens and should be Made in Japan but clearly say "Made in Germany". Since this is made between 1975 (shutdown of Optical Works Voigtländer) and 1981 (Rollei bankcrupty) it should be made by Rollei itself. And there are probably more lenses like this. Optcial-wise the 55/1.4 shows the going down of Rollei, because the design is just a cheapo remake of a 1960's Contarex Planar (copied by other cheapo lensmaker too which was allowed because of ended patent protection, and of course, Zeiss has lost interest on it because of the much better 50/1.4 designed by Behrens&Glatzel).

Thiele claimed the Rollei Planar 50/1.8 to A.W.Tronnier and it was never published who it designed in the 1970's. Tronnier still did Zeiss designs in the late 1960's working on the Zeiss Icarex lenses but never moved to Oberkochen himself but worked from Göttingen or Braunschweig. He was retired in 1973 or 1975.

There is a patent of Glatzel& Konschack of March 1971 where some diagrams looked very similar to these published by Rollei for the 50/1.8. Some even show 8 elements. Usually patent claims are made before production starts, but in this case the SL35 lens line was established in 1970. So we probably never know if they made it to production. In any case, Glatzel& Konschaks work based on Tronnier/Eggert/Überhagen's (Icarex Ultron with concave front element; patented 1968 for Voigtländer AG). Not so nice, that they didn't acknowledged it in their writing...


PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
taunusreiter wrote:
...


you made a great site http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/
thanks for sharing your knowledge with us !
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