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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:36 am Post subject: Price increase on best lenses |
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Orio wrote:
Have you noticed the price increase on the best used lenses recently?
In spite of the world financial crisis.
Two-three years ago, I could find, for instance, Distagon 1.4/35 quite commonly (often 2-3 copies for sale at a time on Ebay), at average price from 300 to 400 Euros. Today, it shows up much less often, and for prices that are around the 600-700 Euros on average (with 900 Euros peaks)
Also, two-three years ago I could find Distagon 2/28 for sale at around 350-400 Euros (I don't count my copy bought for 190 Euros as it was a real lucky strike). Today, it is quite difficult to find one for less than 500-600 Euros. This in spite of the fact that a new and presumably better version has been released by Zeiss recently, a thing that should have lowered the value of the old Contax lens.
I could go on with further examples.
I find this really strange. It's really going against the world's current financial situation.
In any case this proves that buying good old lenses is not a waste of money. In some cases, it could even prove to be an investment.
- _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:07 am Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Yes, but seeing it as an investment is risky business. First of all you don't know which lenses will become more expensive in the future and if you buy "blue chips" like Zeiss or Leica, you need to invest a lot of money when buying, which also is risky when we talk about used lenses.
I think the chances to make real money with buying and selling lenses are not that high. It perhaps can pay for your hobby, though. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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rawhead
Joined: 09 Feb 2009 Posts: 1525 Location: Boston, MA
Expire: 2014-04-29
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:15 am Post subject: |
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rawhead wrote:
It's really not strange. The clear reason is... well me!
To be more accurate, people like me. Who am I? Somebody that just got (back) into (digital)SLR photography after a ten-year stretch of shooting digital compacts.
The kind of amateur photo lover, who couldn't resist the allure of digital, but could not even come close to affording the expensive DSLRs during the early-mid 2000's. But with the rapid decrease of DSLR prices, people like me have come back to the SLR world, for the versatility of the format, and the unmatched quality of its pictures.
Now, the rest isn't quite shared with all the recent DSLR converts; but a certain subset of them, including me, are going immediately to the world of legacy glass, for their quality, price/performance ratio.. well, I don't need to explain further to anybody in this forum, do I?
But that is obviously it. And that's why the most versatile of lenses, namely M42s, have seen, I believe, the most dramatic rises in market prices––tell me if I'm wrong here; my first DLSR was a K200D I bough last July, and I've only been in the manual focus lens market for... let's see here.... Ok, exactly three months come Feb. 26th _________________ Sony α7R, Pentax 67II, Kiev-60, Hasselblad 203FE, 903SWC, Graflex Norita 66, Mamiya M645 1000s, Burke & James 8x10, Graflex Pacemaker Speed Graphic (4x5 and 3x4), Century Graphic (2x3), R.B. Graflex Seried D, Rolleiflex SL66E, Rolleiflex 2.8C Xenotar, Mamiya C330f, a few M42, six P6, three OM, four Hasselblad, two Pentax 67, two Mamiya 645, one Noritar, and a sprinkle of EF. Oh, and an Aero Ektar and Leica Noctilux |
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sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008 Posts: 2475 Location: South West UK
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: |
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sichko wrote:
I think that it is not only the Serie A players that are increasing in price but also members of the lower divisions such as the CZJ Flektogon and Sonnar, and Russians such as the Jupiter 9 and Tair 11A. I have been viewing the market for about 8 months and I have seen serious increases in prices in all of these - and others.
It has been suggested (see for example, http://forum.manualfocus.org/viewtopiv.php?id=13171) that the availability of (relatively) cheap DSLR bodies has driven up the prices of quality MF lenses. Camera bodies may be cheap but high quality lenses to go with them are not - the "glass ceiling" to steal a phrase. Although this may be true I think there are other factors at play..
1. The increasing presence of dealers on ebay. Whenever one sees a Praktica, together with a Flektogon and/or Sonnar, on ebay there is nearly always a "red star" dealer sitting on it. It is very difficult for the individual "photographer" to obtain a "bargain".
2. Notwithstanding general price increases there seems to be a clear differentiation between collectors' items and those which are entirely functional but not really suitable for the cabinet. The increasing premium on cabinet items serves to pull up the prices of user lenses.
3. Although we are in an economic recession there are many people with lots of free cash available - and as far as "boys' toys" go camera lenses are relatively inexpensive.
4. The presence of forums such as this one which serve to "talk-up" the prices of lenses. _________________ John
Last edited by sichko on Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
@Carsten:
Well, I said it could be an investment in some cases
Of course in most cases you will just get your money back.
However my main point is, that in these times of crisis, one would expect the prices to fall, and this is not happening.
I think that the only reason that can explain this, is an increase in the demand, i.e. more people are searching for and buying old lenses. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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sichko
Joined: 20 Jun 2008 Posts: 2475 Location: South West UK
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: |
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sichko wrote:
Orio wrote: |
...more people are searching for and buying old lenses. |
I think that this is true - whatever the reason. _________________ John |
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PaulC
Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 2318
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:23 am Post subject: |
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PaulC wrote:
Orio wrote: |
@Carsten:
Well, I said it could be an investment in some cases
Of course in most cases you will just get your money back. |
I just wish I had spent that $45,000 on used lenses two years ago, instead of putting it into a "safe" stock market tracking fund. "Just getting your money back" after a couple of years sounds pretty bloody good these days _________________ View or buy my photos at:
http://shutterstock.com/g/paulcowan |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16652 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:53 am Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
Well I guess it is similar to good wine. If you buy cheap wine, it ages fast, loses taste and its value also fast. If you invest in really good wine, you'll preserve that investment over a long period 10...20 or more years and sometimes the prices even (often) increase over time (if you don't drink it of course...). Same with lenses: Zeiss, Leitz etc. i.e. the top notch brands are useable after many years (not so the camera bodies esp. digital now) and keep their value, even better increase it more than inflation (the good and rare ones). _________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:28 am Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Orio wrote: |
@Carsten:
Well, I said it could be an investment in some cases
Of course in most cases you will just get your money back.
However my main point is, that in these times of crisis, one would expect the prices to fall, and this is not happening.
I think that the only reason that can explain this, is an increase in the demand, i.e. more people are searching for and buying old lenses. |
You're right, Orio.
Just the "cheap" lenses do not get any dearer. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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hacksawbob
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1293 Location: LANCS UK
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:18 am Post subject: |
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hacksawbob wrote:
Unlike wine the quality of the lens does not improve over time, but our perception of them does. _________________ LENS LIST |
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PaulC
Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 2318
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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PaulC wrote:
hacksawbob wrote: |
Unlike wine the quality of the lens does not improve over time, but our perception of them does. |
The assessment of quality depends on what qualities you desire, it doesn't just mean the maximum possible resolution. I want to make a collection of photographs that capture aspects modern life in a way that has an old-fashioned look. For that, vignetting and some softness, combined with the narrower sensitivity of film are an advantage.
Somebody (here, I think) showed a flower shot with a meniscus lens of the kind that went out of fashion about 150 years ago. There was nothing "sharp" about it but it was still a great photo because it created the dreamy effect the photographer intended.
Another factor is that the sharpness/quality of the worst lens exceeds the expectations of 99% of people with the commonest DSLRs. I'm currently scanning negs I shot 20-30 years ago, which I thought were great when I saw the original "en-prints" or (at most) 5x7 inch prints. Now I can see that almost all of them had bad camera-shake which degraded the image to way below what the lens was capable of. I'd lay odds that the sharpness of most images shot today is also defined by camera-shake, not by the lens (unless it is purely a flash photo).
What that means is that when the ordinary punter compares a shot taken with the very sharpest prime produced today by Canon or Nikon against - say - a Meyer triplet for 1950, the images will be equally sharp (or unsharp) because the defining parameter is user error. The only benefit modern lenses offer in such circumstances is the auto-focus (even that benefit is offset to some degree by the weight of AF lenses).
No wonder a significant number of people reckon the cost saving for MF glass is worth the loss of AF ability (which I find isn't such a great loss, anyway, in most situations). There is also a limited amount of old glass out there and an unlimited supply of new DSLRs. _________________ View or buy my photos at:
http://shutterstock.com/g/paulcowan |
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Puplet
Joined: 09 Aug 2007 Posts: 410
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Puplet wrote:
Let us not forget all the people who bought full-frame cameras last Christmas - they must be looking for lenses now too, and clearly have money because they could afford a Canon 5D Mk II etc.
Also, if the price of digital AF lenses goes up, the price of alternative MF lenses goes up too? |
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Puplet
Joined: 09 Aug 2007 Posts: 410
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Puplet wrote:
Interest rates on savings and mortgages ... if your mortgage is cheaper now, and your savings aren't earning you so much interest, maybe you feel you have more money for lenses... |
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cilinderman
Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 317 Location: Canillo, Andorra
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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cilinderman wrote:
Keith G wrote: |
hacksawbob wrote: |
Unlike wine the quality of the lens does not improve over time, but our perception of them does. |
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I would call this inflation , even if the term doesn't fit the situation perfectly. _________________ 5D & Fujica ST801|| Carl Zeiss Planar MM 50/1.7 (departed for resurrection) || Carl Zeiss Distagon 28/2.8 AEJ || Meyer Orestor "Pentacon" (relabeled) 135/2.8 || Carl Zeiss Jena 135/3.5 || Carl Zeiss Sonnar MM 85/2.8 || Carl Zeiss Flektogon MC "White" 35/2.4 || Olympus Zuiko OM MC 21/3.5 || Super Takumar 55/1.8 || Rollei Planar HFT 50/1.8 || "The three tenors" from Orio (Nikkor pre-AI 85/1.8, 135/3.5 & 105/2.5) |
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008 Posts: 2495 Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
I know a long-time MFL user, who buys lenses only locally and he told me, that just a few years ago typical price of e.g. Biotar 75/1.5 was about €40-50 and nobody it wasn't easy to sold it for the price _________________ (almost) complete list of Helios lenses |
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Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 6557 Location: Ireland
Expire: 2013-12-27
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Farside wrote:
kds315* wrote: |
Well I guess it is similar to good wine. If you buy cheap wine, it ages fast, loses taste and its value also fast. If you invest in really good wine, you'll preserve that investment over a long period 10...20 or more years and sometimes the prices even (often) increase over time (if you don't drink it of course...). Same with lenses: Zeiss, Leitz etc. i.e. the top notch brands are useable after many years (not so the camera bodies esp. digital now) and keep their value, even better increase it more than inflation (the good and rare ones). |
Twenty years ago someone gave me a bottle of 12 year-old malt. I don't drink whisky and it's 32 years old now. Ten years back another person gave me a fresh bottle of scotch. The same thing - it's now matured a bit.
The problem is - should I get pished? _________________ Dave - Moderator
Camera Fiend and Biograph Operator
If I wanted soot and whitewash I'd be a chimney sweep and house painter.
The Lenses of Farside (click)
BUY FRESH FOMAPAN TO HELP KEEP THE FACTORY ALIVE ---
Foma Campaign topic -
http://forum.mflenses.com/foma-campaign-t55443.html
FOMAPAN on forum -
http://www.mflenses.com/fs.php?sw=Fomapan
Webshop Norway
http://www.fomafoto.com/
Webshop Czech
https://fomaobchod.cz/inshop/scripts/shop.aspx?action=DoChangeLanguage&LangID=4 |
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Puplet
Joined: 09 Aug 2007 Posts: 410
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:37 am Post subject: |
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Puplet wrote:
Clearly you don't drink whiskey - whiskey only matures while it is in the cask; once it's bottled it stops |
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Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 6557 Location: Ireland
Expire: 2013-12-27
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:47 am Post subject: |
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Farside wrote:
Puplet wrote: |
Clearly you don't drink whiskey - whiskey only matures while it is in the cask; once it's bottled it stops |
I do sometimes drink whiskey, but don't like whisky much - violent headaches result. It's ok with some lemonade and ice and maybe a shot of rum in it. Har har. _________________ Dave - Moderator
Camera Fiend and Biograph Operator
If I wanted soot and whitewash I'd be a chimney sweep and house painter.
The Lenses of Farside (click)
BUY FRESH FOMAPAN TO HELP KEEP THE FACTORY ALIVE ---
Foma Campaign topic -
http://forum.mflenses.com/foma-campaign-t55443.html
FOMAPAN on forum -
http://www.mflenses.com/fs.php?sw=Fomapan
Webshop Norway
http://www.fomafoto.com/
Webshop Czech
https://fomaobchod.cz/inshop/scripts/shop.aspx?action=DoChangeLanguage&LangID=4 |
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Esox lucius
Joined: 26 Aug 2008 Posts: 2441 Location: Helsinki, Finland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:02 am Post subject: |
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Esox lucius wrote:
I don't really follow the aftermarket prices for lenses that I have acquired. After a quick eBay and Google check the (only) ones that seem to have risen in value since I acquired them are
Voigtländer SL 180mm f/4 APO Lanthar (Nikon Ai-S mount)
Nikkor 28mm f/1.4D AF
Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 Ai-S _________________ Vilhelm
Nikon DSLR: D4, D800, Nikon D3, D70
Nikon SLR: Nikon F100, Nikon FM2n
Nikkor MF: 20/2.8 Ai-S, 24/2 Ai-S, 24/2.8 Ai-S, 28/2 Ai-S, 28/2.8 Ai-S, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 Ai-S, 45/2.8 GN, 50/1.2 Ai, 50/1.2 Ai-S, 50/1.4 Ai, 50/1.4 Ai-S, 50/1.8 AI-S "long", 50/1.8 AI-S "short", 55/1.2 Ai, 85/1.4 Ai-S, 85/1.8H, 105/2.5 Ai, 135/2.8Q, 135/3.5 Ai, 180/2.8 Ai-S ED
Nikkor AF/AF-S FX: 14-24/2.8G, 16/2.8D Fisheye, 16-35/4G VR, 17-35/2.8D, 24/1.4G, 24/3.5D PC-E, 24/2.8D, 24-70/2.8G, 28/1.4D, 28/1.8G, 35/1.4G, 35/2D, 50/1.4D, 50/1.4G, 50/1.8G, 60/2.8 Micro, 60/2.8G Micro, 70-200/2.8G VR, 70-200/2.8G VR II, 80-400/4.5-5.6D VR, 85/1.4G, 85/2.8D PC-E Micro, 105/2D DC, 105/2.8G VR Micro, 135/2D DC, 200/2G VR, 200-400/4G VR, 300/2.8G VR, 300/4D ED, 400/2.8G VR, 800/5.6E VR
Nikkor AF/AF-S DX: 10.5/2.8G Fisheye, 12-24/4G, 18-70/3.5-4.5G
Topcor: Auto-Topcor 58/1.4,
Voigtländer SL: 40/2 Ultron, 58/1.4 Nokton, 75/2.5 Color-Heliar, 90/3.5 APO-Lanthar, 125/2.5 APO-Lanthar, 180/4 APO-Lanthar
Zeiss ZF: Planar T* 85/1.4 ZF
M42 SLR: Voigtländer Bessaflex TM
M42: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.4, Tessar 50/2.8 T, Super-Takumar 55/1.8, Biotar 58/2 T, Pentacon 135/2.8, Sonnar 135/3.5
Medium format: several Zeiss Super Ikonta 532/16 Opton-Tessar 80mm f/2.8, Zeiss Ikonta 524/16 Opton-Tessar 75mm f/3.5
Leica: R7, M4, Super-Angulon-R 4/21, Elmarit-R 2.8/28, Summicron-R 2/35, Summicron-M 2/35, Summicron-M 2/50, Elmarit-R 2,8/180 |
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Laurence
Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 4809 Location: Western Washington State
Expire: 2016-06-19
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Laurence wrote:
Farside wrote: |
Puplet wrote: |
Clearly you don't drink whiskey - whiskey only matures while it is in the cask; once it's bottled it stops |
I do sometimes drink whiskey, but don't like whisky much - violent headaches result. It's ok with some lemonade and ice and maybe a shot of rum in it. Har har. |
Just keep drinking until you have it down to oh...about half a bottle left. You won't mind the headaches a bit, and it will taste better for sure. _________________
Assent, and you are sane;
Demur,—you ’re straightway dangerous,
And handled with a chain.
Emily Dickinson
Cameras and Lenses in Use:
Yashica Mat 124 w/ Yashinon 80/3.5,
CV Apo-Lanthar 90/3.5SL, (Thank you Klaus),
Pentax 645,
Flek 50,
Pentax-A 150
Pentax-A 120 Macro
Voigtlander Vitomatic I w/Color Skopar 50/2.8
Konica TC and zoom lenses (thanks Carsten)
Contax AX
Yashica ML 50/2
Yashica ML 35/2.8
Carl Zeiss Contax 50/1.4
Tamron Adaptall SP 17/3.5
Tamron Adaptall 28/2.5
Tamron Adaptall SP 300/2.8 LD (IF)
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