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DISTAGON 2.8/28 MM JAPAN - some samples
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject: DISTAGON 2.8/28 MM JAPAN - some samples Reply with quote
Hi there, just a couple of examples by DISTAGON 2.8/28 MM --- JAPAN

one landscape shot:

www.homer.sk/mf_lenses/004_Distagon_28_28/IMG_3996.jpg

one interior:

www.homer.sk/mf_lenses/004_Distagon_28_28/IMG_0814.jpg


PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very nice! So much Zeiss, first link is broken.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
Very nice! So much Zeiss, first link is broken.


Thanks Attila. The link should be fixed.. try again Smile thanks


PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
First shoot is a difficult one , looks made with an AF lens. Hard to make good one without polar filter I guess.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Were these wide open? It's nicely sharp in the centre, but falls off drastically at the edges.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Farside wrote:
Were these wide open? It's nicely sharp in the centre, but falls off drastically at the edges.


Yep, I was writing the same.

Still japanes Zeiss lenses don't appeal me anything more than Tamrons or Tokinas and surely less than Nikkors. I'm sorry but I can't force me to trust in all that "zeiss quality control and supervision" hype.

It is the same as musical instruments. Japanes ones are technically perfect but they always lack of something...


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Don't know I have a CZ Sonnar 180mm f2.8 MM Japanese lens, it is extraordinary.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Farside wrote:
Were these wide open? It's nicely sharp in the centre, but falls off drastically at the edges.


thanks for your comment -- I dont know - was maybe f/5.6 but the thing was that edges were further than middle of the object - thats the reason of falling Smile


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A G Photography wrote:
Farside wrote:
Were these wide open? It's nicely sharp in the centre, but falls off drastically at the edges.


Yep, I was writing the same.

Still japanes Zeiss lenses don't appeal me anything more than Tamrons or Tokinas and surely less than Nikkors. I'm sorry but I can't force me to trust in all that "zeiss quality control and supervision" hype.

It is the same as musical instruments. Japanes ones are technically perfect but they always lack of something...


My friend is a musician - he plays the cello - he played with his orchestra in Japan ... and said to me Japanese are perfect in classical music but they put different emotions in the music Smile never mind! different culture... -- they love music from the europe anyway Smile

but the guitar KOHNO SAKURAI - made in JAPAN - lack NOTHING !!! - - ABSOUTELY PERFECT PRECISION MADE GUITAR is one of the best classical guitars in the world (I know some classical guitarists and I personally held and played on this guitar)... :Smile) see this link:

http://www.casalebauer.com/listpdf/Kohno_2007.pdf

the cheapest guitar starts at the price approx. 4000 EUR the top is 11000 EURos...


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A G Photography wrote:

Still japanes Zeiss lenses don't appeal me anything more than Tamrons or Tokinas and surely less than Nikkors. I'm sorry but I can't force me to trust in all that "zeiss quality control and supervision" hype.
It is the same as musical instruments. Japanes ones are technically perfect but they always lack of something...


In the Contax line at Kyocera, the glass design was Zeiss, the glass recipes were Zeiss, there were Zeiss supervisors and the quality control was made by Zeiss engineers on Zeiss machinery.
Only the workers were Japanese.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
First shoot is a difficult one , looks made with an AF lens.


The Distagon 2.8/28 has often been considered as the "less Zeiss" or "more Japanese" of the Contax/Yashica Zeiss lenses. The design is more modern than most of the other Zeiss Contax lenses, and the concept behind it, according to Marco Cavina, is more related to the (then) contemporary Japanese lenses, than to the tradition of Zeiss design.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have been playing at one wedding TODAY the drink reception on the YAMAHA SILENT GUITAR SLG120-NW
Made in JAPAN : )

http://www.yamahamusic.com.au/products/musicalinstruments/guitars/images/SLG120NW.jpg

oops - people love that unusual shape Smile) and accidentally (Smile) took some pics of the flowers just behind the marquee with Canon EOS 30D and CZ Distagon 2.8/28 MM oops! made in Japan again Smile)

Just developed in A.Lightroom - no adjustments. slightly contrast and brightness only :

www.homer.sk/mf_lenses/004_Distagon_28_28/IMG_9700.jpg


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A G Photography wrote:
It is the same as musical instruments. Japanes ones are technically perfect but they always lack of something...

Would you like to more specific? I agree with trifox. My Yamaha euphonium and bass trombone both lack the horrible ridges at the joints and sticky valves that I've seen on some European instruments and they lack the poor resonance, poor intonation and the range limitations. The euphonium alone was nearly £4,000. Honestly, you need to think again - they're truly professional.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Really nice one!


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't know about musical instruments, but I have used many many Contax lenses of all types and I often could compare German made and Japan made versions and I was never able to pick any significant difference.

On the contrary, the difference between MM and AE versions of some lenses is evident and the location of build has nothing to do with it.

This is my personal experience, and I think I can speak a little of the Contax lenses.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
Really nice one!


thanks attila! I have got some pics taken with Jupiter-11A..


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Let we see them!


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
yes, but firstly see this, and then I'll open new topic --- JUPITER 11A-black-cheap portrait lens Smile oki?

two more "accidents" Smile taken by distagon 2.8/28 MM Japan..Smile

1-"SUSHI a la DISTAGON 4/18 (Made in Japan by the way) - see these sticks!

www.homer.sk/mf_lenses/004_Distagon_28_28/IMG_0045.jpg

2-my second Jupiter-11 its my lovely lens!!
www.homer.sk/mf_lenses/004_Distagon_28_28/IMG_0047.jpg


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Surely, please open a new topic.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
Surely, please open a new topic.


new topic done:
http://forum.mflenses.com/jupiter-11a-4-135-black-cheap-dandy-t9249.html


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
In the Contax line at Kyocera, the glass design was Zeiss, the glass recipes were Zeiss, there were Zeiss supervisors and the quality control was made by Zeiss engineers on Zeiss machinery.
Only the workers were Japanese.


Orio wrote:
The Distagon 2.8/28 has often been considered as the "less Zeiss" or "more Japanese" of the Contax/Yashica Zeiss lenses. The design is more modern than most of the other Zeiss Contax lenses, and the concept behind it, according to Marco Cavina, is more related to the (then) contemporary Japanese lenses, than to the tradition of Zeiss design.


I'm not saying they're bad lenses. Not at all. And I'm looking forward to buy 2-3 of them asap. I've got the 50/1.4 Planar in top position in my buying list. There are also the Cosina-Voigtlander lenses that really shine.

Still your first comment above is marketing stuff, if the only difference were the workers I couldn't see the convenience for Zeiss to produce in Japan where the working cost wasn't and for sure now isn't lower than in Europe (the opposite actually).
I guess why then Hasseblad and other professional MF Zeiss lenses were and are still produced in Germany, strange indeed.
The difference I guess is in the production capacity of the japanese industrial plants.

I think your second comment goes right to the point instead.

I'm not talking about quality level but "different" quality in comparable levels.

The same about musical instruments: the japanese ones are maniacally perfect and professional. They're just too perfect for my tastes and if I'd have to spend those amounts of money on a guitar I'd go to some liuters I know, I'd choose together with them the woods (Val di Fiemme fir wood for the acoustic plane for example, well seasoned in the right ambient), etc
Khono guitars are great, but still... Wink


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A G Photography wrote:

Still your first comment above is marketing stuff, if the only difference were the workers I couldn't see the convenience for Zeiss to produce in Japan where the working cost wasn't and for sure now isn't lower than in Europe (the opposite actually).


All the article and books that I read, speak clearly of Zeiss taking the decision to produce the Contax line in Japan because of the lower cost of work. But since of course you are the owner of the truth, there is not much point in continuing this conversation.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
A G Photography wrote:

Still your first comment above is marketing stuff, if the only difference were the workers I couldn't see the convenience for Zeiss to produce in Japan where the working cost wasn't and for sure now isn't lower than in Europe (the opposite actually).


All the article and books that I read, speak clearly of Zeiss taking the decision to produce the Contax line in Japan because of the lower cost of work. But since of course you are the owner of the truth, there is not much point in continuing this conversation.


Chill out dude.

2005 manifacturing hourly wages from US department of labour:

Germany $ 28,83
Japan $ 29,33
Italy for the matter $ 24,81
US $ 23,65

Then if a japanese worker produces more in that hour than a german worker the work cost is diluited on a greater quantity of product (the unfamous labour productivity).
But this is also possible because of the efficiency of the product plants and work organization (the main reason why we in Italy have a low labour productivity).
So the reason why also new Zeiss lenses are produced in Japan is not because japanese work costs less but because japanese industries produces more with less work, so they don't follow european Zeiss workflow, for the worse or the better.

Still pro MF lenses from Zeiss were and are still produced in Germany, there should be a reason or is just MF shooters who are snobbish?


PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A G Photography wrote:

Chill out dude.


Chill out what?
You can not speak this way to me.

I have owned and used dozens of Contax lenses. I mean REALLY dozens. I compared the Japanese and German versions of nearly all the lenses in the line, and I could never find any significant difference. I trust my own eyes.

For your own admission, you have not owned one of them yet. And yet you pretend to know (by some divine revelation?) that the Japanese made Contax lenses don't work as well as the German made ones. Without having personally ever tried either.

Now I don't speak of things that I don't know, and I have the humbleness to admit when I don't have experience of something.

I sincerely find your "I-know-it-all" attitude presumptuous and quite arrogant and I do not wish to have exchanges with you any more if this has to be your attitude.

Quote:
2005 manifacturing hourly wages from US department of labour:


In case you have not noticed, the production of Contax lenses at Kyocera started in 1973, that is thirty-two years before your referenced data.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
A G Photography wrote:

Chill out dude.


Chill out what?
You can not speak this way to me.


I can when things goes on personal side (and I wasn't the one to start)

Orio wrote:

I have owned and used dozens of Contax lenses. I mean REALLY dozens. I compared the Japanese and German versions of nearly all the lenses in the line, and I could never find any significant difference. I trust my own eyes.

For your own admission, you have not owned one of them yet. And yet you pretend to know (by some divine revelation?) that the Japanese made Contax lenses don't work as well as the German made ones. Without having personally ever tried either.

Now I don't speak of things that I don't know, and I have the humbleness to admit when I don't have experience of something.


Trust me, I believe in you and your eyes but I tried the 1.7 and 1.4 Planars and the 135/2.8 Sonnar, all japanese made, that's the reason I wish to buy the 1.4, but at a reasonable price since I didn't found them real miracle-makers the same way as the Zeiss lenses for Hassy MF.

This is why I was a bit deluged by Contax lenses. I never said that those lenses are bad or low quality though, really, because I never had the opportunity to test many of them.
Sstill I heard plenty of stories like this about japanese ones: http://www.luciolepri.it/lc2/marcocavina/articoli_fotografici/Zeiss_85_1,4_lemon/00_pag.htm. But also more people saying the same as you that the two productions were identical (still in that example the second shot is what I was used to see from the Hassy Zeiss lenses).

I know it's like comparing tomatoes with apples but the difference between japanese lenses and the Zeiss ones in MF is impressive (and I'm not talk about quality, but difference in image rendering, Mamiyas for example seem sometimes even sharper but less 3d).

Quote:
2005 manifacturing hourly wages from US department of labour:


Orio wrote:
In case you have not noticed, the production of Contax lenses at Kyocera started in 1973, that is thirty-two years before your referenced data.


According to some the decision was made because Zeiss was closing its plant in Stuttgart and Japan would have been the huger market for the new Contax system and they could produce quality lenses at a lower price (high production costs were the reason why Zeiss was closing down its stuttgarter plant), plus they needed a body with an electronic shutter and Yashica was one of the biggest producer (they also asked Pentax).
http://keppler.popphoto.com/blog/2006/09/speaking_frankl_1.html
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