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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Nikos wrote: |
Anyway, I hope Leica will get better soon... |
A FF mirrorless Leica will be unaffordable for most of us! _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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Nikos
Joined: 17 May 2010 Posts: 1077 Location: Greece
Expire: 2015-01-02
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Nikos wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
Nikos wrote: |
Anyway, I hope Leica will get better soon... |
A FF mirrorless Leica will be unaffordable for most of us! |
I am not rich, Carsten, just a worker.
(It just happens that I spend 60% of my money on lenses).
For the moment I only have a used and beaten Leica lens, which I got for 330 Euros.
However, I think digital sensors have started to mature (see 5D Mark II vs III),
and I believe buying a good rangefinder would offer many years of joy. _________________ Νίκος • www.diafragma.gr
Cameras: Canon EOS 5D Mark II, Sony α7R, Sony NEX-5N
MF lenses:
SLR:
Canon TS-E 17mm f/4, Zeiss 2.8/21 ZE, Zeiss 2/28 Contax, Zeiss 2/35 ZE, Zeiss 1.4/50 Contax, Zeiss 1.4/85 Contax, Zeiss Makro 2/100 ZE,
Zeiss 2/135 Contax, Zeiss 2.8/135 Contax, Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 35-70 Contax, Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 100-300 Contax, Zeiss F-Distagon Rollei, Canon FD 24mm f2, Minolta MD Rokkor 35mm f2.8
Rangefinder:
Zeiss 4.5/21 C Biogon ZM, Zeiss 2/35 Biogon ZM, Voigtländer 15mm f/4.5 Heliar L39, Leica Tele-Elmarit 2.8/90mm, Zeiss 2/45 Contax G, Zeiss 2.8/90 Contax G, Canon 50mm 1.8 LTM
AF lenses: Canon 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye, Canon 24-70 f/2.8 L, Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II, Canon 70-200 f/4 L, Canon 300 f/4 L IS, Canon 100 f/2.8 macro
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AhamB
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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AhamB wrote:
Nikos wrote: |
However, I doubt they could easily match Sony's NEX video quality.
NEX-5N is far superior to 5D Mark II regarding video.
Possibly it is also better than 5D Mark III. For example, it does 1080p at 60fps... |
The Panasonic GH2 easily beats the 5Dmk3 here (except in tonality): http://www.eoshd.com/content/7631/panasonic-gh2-vs-5d-mark-iii
Quite shocking, IMO. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I do wonder if this new Canon mirrorless won't just be a G1X with a lens mount instead of a built-in zoom...
Nikon went for a small sensor and Panasonic, Pentax and Olympus have small sensors.
Leaving Sony and Samsung as the best options in mirrorless for users of MF lenses, not counting the Leica M9 as it's out of the reach of most people, the Fuji camera looks interesting but also expensive and the X100 wasn't impressive in IQ.
If Samsung can make a great mirrorless camera with a APS-C sensor for less than 200eu then why can't the others? _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
and the X100 wasn't impressive in IQ. |
According to Nadir magazine, X100's IQ is better than Nex-3's:
http://tinyurl.com/c2msv7x _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I was just going by the X100 samples I've seen, reminded me of the NEX with kit lens. Maybe the X100 sensor is good but hamstrung by the lens? _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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me
Joined: 02 May 2012 Posts: 10
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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me wrote:
@AhamB Glad someone mentioned the GH2, which hacked actually beats all of the above, and even holds a torch to the RED. The hacked GH2 has become the standard for DSLR video with absolutely no competition (yet)
This video is not even the highest end Hack, and Vimeo greatly reduces the bit rate, not to mention knocked my video down to 30fps (was shot at 720p 60fps, bit rate is variable averaging around 100 before vimeo reduction). The video was shot with the boring kit 14-42 lens too
https://vimeo.com/41250032
You can download the original MTS file here http://www.2shared.com/file/H-rCwOAf/00049.html to watch this in full quality. Be forewarned, it's a big file, and allot of computers aren't up to the challenge of playing it smoothly. But if yours can, it's worth it. Beee you tee full !
Sorry, my camera wins |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
I was just going by the X100 samples I've seen, reminded me of the NEX with kit lens. Maybe the X100 sensor is good but hamstrung by the lens? |
Nadir's review shows a good lens on a good sensor.
Then liking is subjective, but based on the comparison images they posted, there is visible evidence that the X100 does a better job than the Nex-3 at the subject portrayed.
X100 images that Larry showed here were very good in my humble opinion. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Yes Larry's were, others weren't, but Larry is a great shooter.
I think the images that failed to impress me were higher ISO shots, I never shoot at higher ISOs so performance at those settings is moot to me, I own a tripod. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 1974
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:04 am Post subject: |
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fermy wrote:
It's pretty much universally accepted that Fuji X100 eats NEX-3 for lunch for IQ, high or low ISO. As always, it's a hyperbola, but it does have a slight IQ edge over NEX. On the other hand Fuji is a finicky camera, with various firmware glitches, aperture blades getting stuck and what not. |
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Hood
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 469 Location: Perth, Australia
Expire: 2013-09-16
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:15 am Post subject: |
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Hood wrote:
I think if you did the comparison to the nex5n the advantage would shift again.
I have come across a few M9 owners now who also own 5n's for shooting thier M glass when not wanting to risk thier M9 or for higher iso work.
...and I have heard on more occasion than one, that these guys have trouble telling the difference between the files from each camera. The IQ from the 5n is that good!
...then again I have also seen similar comparisons between the M9 and the X100. _________________
-Josh
Currently shooting:
Digital:Sony Nex-5, Nex-5n, Pentax KX, Pentax K30 and Fuji JZ100
Film: Minolta x700, Contax 137MD, Chinon Memotron, Minolta 500si, Minolta 700si, Canon Ex-auto, Minolta 35DL weathermatic, Pentax espio 738, Minolta Himatic-G, Olympus Trip 35, Elixa Reflex-B, Pentax MZ-60
Lens Collection:Slr Magic 28/2.8, Slr Magic 35/1.7, Minolta Rokkor 45/2, Minolta Rokkor 50/1.4, Minolta W-Rokkor-sg 28/3.5, Minolta 35-70/3.5, Minolta Rokkor-PF 55/1.9, Minolta W.Rokkor 28/3.5, Monolta MD 50/2*2, Minolta 50/1.7, Minolta zealox bellows, Minolta e.Rokkor 75/4.5, Sony 18-55 3.5/5.6, Sony 16/2.8, Asahi Smc Takumar 55/1.8, Asahi Smc Takumar 50/1.5, Meyer Gerlitz Dimoplan 50/2.8,Meyer Gerlitz Orestegon 50/1.8, Tamron 35/2.8, Tamron 70-220/4, Tamron aspherical 28-200 3.8-5.6, Seimar 28/2.8, Aus Jena Tessar 50/2.8, Industar 50/3.5, Industar 26m 50/2.8, Industar 61 55/2.8, Industar 69 28/2.8, Carenar 45/2.8, Pentacon electric 50/1.8, Pentacon 30/3.5, Pentacon 29/2.8, Helios 44m 58/2, Miida 35/2.8, Miida 75-205/3.8, Cosina 28/2.8, Kenlock 135/2.8, Kenlock 35/2.8, Kenlock Mc-tor 28/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2, Vivitar 28-85 3.5-4.5 macro, Vivitar 28-80 3.5-5.6 macro, Exacta 35-70 3.5-4.8 macro, Sigma 35-70 2.8-4, Sigma 100-200 4.5, SamYong 18-28 4-4.5, Photax-Pharagon 35/2.8, Travenar 35/2.8, Travenar 50/1.8, Tokina 70-210 4-5.6, Tokina 28/2.8, Promura 200/3.5, Sirius 20-200 3.9, Soligor 200/3.5, Canon FL 50/1.8, Canon FD 35-70 3.5-4.5, Auto Focal 75-200/4.5, Zenit Zenitar 50/2,Tokina353 35-300mm(KX), Pentax 18-55(KX), Pentax 35-80(KX), Sigma 14mm F2.8(KX), Sigma 70-200mm(KX), Sigma 24-70mm(KX), Pentax 35-135 macro(KX), plus I have a few in for service right now and I'm always collecting more...
It's been a few years now, I need to sit down and update this list...it has grown considerably! haha
My Blog:
http://www.joshpereraphoto.com/
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Hood wrote: |
I have come across a few M9 owners now who also own 5n's for shooting thier M glass when not wanting to risk thier M9 or for higher iso work.
...and I have heard on more occasion than one, that these guys have trouble telling the difference between the files from each camera. The IQ from the 5n is that good! |
A 25mm lens becomes a 40mm lens on the Nex, if they can't tell the difference, they're quite distracted photographers _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Hood
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 469 Location: Perth, Australia
Expire: 2013-09-16
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Hood wrote:
They are not talking about the focal length mate.
I know you are just joking around.
They are talking about the IQ. _________________
-Josh
Currently shooting:
Digital:Sony Nex-5, Nex-5n, Pentax KX, Pentax K30 and Fuji JZ100
Film: Minolta x700, Contax 137MD, Chinon Memotron, Minolta 500si, Minolta 700si, Canon Ex-auto, Minolta 35DL weathermatic, Pentax espio 738, Minolta Himatic-G, Olympus Trip 35, Elixa Reflex-B, Pentax MZ-60
Lens Collection:Slr Magic 28/2.8, Slr Magic 35/1.7, Minolta Rokkor 45/2, Minolta Rokkor 50/1.4, Minolta W-Rokkor-sg 28/3.5, Minolta 35-70/3.5, Minolta Rokkor-PF 55/1.9, Minolta W.Rokkor 28/3.5, Monolta MD 50/2*2, Minolta 50/1.7, Minolta zealox bellows, Minolta e.Rokkor 75/4.5, Sony 18-55 3.5/5.6, Sony 16/2.8, Asahi Smc Takumar 55/1.8, Asahi Smc Takumar 50/1.5, Meyer Gerlitz Dimoplan 50/2.8,Meyer Gerlitz Orestegon 50/1.8, Tamron 35/2.8, Tamron 70-220/4, Tamron aspherical 28-200 3.8-5.6, Seimar 28/2.8, Aus Jena Tessar 50/2.8, Industar 50/3.5, Industar 26m 50/2.8, Industar 61 55/2.8, Industar 69 28/2.8, Carenar 45/2.8, Pentacon electric 50/1.8, Pentacon 30/3.5, Pentacon 29/2.8, Helios 44m 58/2, Miida 35/2.8, Miida 75-205/3.8, Cosina 28/2.8, Kenlock 135/2.8, Kenlock 35/2.8, Kenlock Mc-tor 28/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2, Vivitar 28-85 3.5-4.5 macro, Vivitar 28-80 3.5-5.6 macro, Exacta 35-70 3.5-4.8 macro, Sigma 35-70 2.8-4, Sigma 100-200 4.5, SamYong 18-28 4-4.5, Photax-Pharagon 35/2.8, Travenar 35/2.8, Travenar 50/1.8, Tokina 70-210 4-5.6, Tokina 28/2.8, Promura 200/3.5, Sirius 20-200 3.9, Soligor 200/3.5, Canon FL 50/1.8, Canon FD 35-70 3.5-4.5, Auto Focal 75-200/4.5, Zenit Zenitar 50/2,Tokina353 35-300mm(KX), Pentax 18-55(KX), Pentax 35-80(KX), Sigma 14mm F2.8(KX), Sigma 70-200mm(KX), Sigma 24-70mm(KX), Pentax 35-135 macro(KX), plus I have a few in for service right now and I'm always collecting more...
It's been a few years now, I need to sit down and update this list...it has grown considerably! haha
My Blog:
http://www.joshpereraphoto.com/
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Hood wrote: |
They are not talking about the focal length mate.
I know you are just joking around.
They are talking about the IQ. |
The M9 does not have an antialiasing filter.
If the Nex-5 has one, which I think it does, then it must use in-camera sharpening, so how can a processed image have the same quality level of an unprocessed one?
I'm speaking of pure image quality.
My 5D Mark II is an excellent camera, yet it's obvious when you inspect the files 100% that the 5D Mark II pixels are software sharpened while the M9 pixels are immaculate. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Hood
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 469 Location: Perth, Australia
Expire: 2013-09-16
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Hood wrote:
I am just repeating opinions that I have read expressed on photographers blogs.
I cannot talk from personal experience. _________________
-Josh
Currently shooting:
Digital:Sony Nex-5, Nex-5n, Pentax KX, Pentax K30 and Fuji JZ100
Film: Minolta x700, Contax 137MD, Chinon Memotron, Minolta 500si, Minolta 700si, Canon Ex-auto, Minolta 35DL weathermatic, Pentax espio 738, Minolta Himatic-G, Olympus Trip 35, Elixa Reflex-B, Pentax MZ-60
Lens Collection:Slr Magic 28/2.8, Slr Magic 35/1.7, Minolta Rokkor 45/2, Minolta Rokkor 50/1.4, Minolta W-Rokkor-sg 28/3.5, Minolta 35-70/3.5, Minolta Rokkor-PF 55/1.9, Minolta W.Rokkor 28/3.5, Monolta MD 50/2*2, Minolta 50/1.7, Minolta zealox bellows, Minolta e.Rokkor 75/4.5, Sony 18-55 3.5/5.6, Sony 16/2.8, Asahi Smc Takumar 55/1.8, Asahi Smc Takumar 50/1.5, Meyer Gerlitz Dimoplan 50/2.8,Meyer Gerlitz Orestegon 50/1.8, Tamron 35/2.8, Tamron 70-220/4, Tamron aspherical 28-200 3.8-5.6, Seimar 28/2.8, Aus Jena Tessar 50/2.8, Industar 50/3.5, Industar 26m 50/2.8, Industar 61 55/2.8, Industar 69 28/2.8, Carenar 45/2.8, Pentacon electric 50/1.8, Pentacon 30/3.5, Pentacon 29/2.8, Helios 44m 58/2, Miida 35/2.8, Miida 75-205/3.8, Cosina 28/2.8, Kenlock 135/2.8, Kenlock 35/2.8, Kenlock Mc-tor 28/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2, Vivitar 28-85 3.5-4.5 macro, Vivitar 28-80 3.5-5.6 macro, Exacta 35-70 3.5-4.8 macro, Sigma 35-70 2.8-4, Sigma 100-200 4.5, SamYong 18-28 4-4.5, Photax-Pharagon 35/2.8, Travenar 35/2.8, Travenar 50/1.8, Tokina 70-210 4-5.6, Tokina 28/2.8, Promura 200/3.5, Sirius 20-200 3.9, Soligor 200/3.5, Canon FL 50/1.8, Canon FD 35-70 3.5-4.5, Auto Focal 75-200/4.5, Zenit Zenitar 50/2,Tokina353 35-300mm(KX), Pentax 18-55(KX), Pentax 35-80(KX), Sigma 14mm F2.8(KX), Sigma 70-200mm(KX), Sigma 24-70mm(KX), Pentax 35-135 macro(KX), plus I have a few in for service right now and I'm always collecting more...
It's been a few years now, I need to sit down and update this list...it has grown considerably! haha
My Blog:
http://www.joshpereraphoto.com/
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me
Joined: 02 May 2012 Posts: 10
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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me wrote:
Is the GH2 like the giant squid we all just ignore?
Not knocking the other cameras, but for video on a M 4/3 it's much worth checking out why the GH2 leaves the others in the dirt if you haven't already. If you are unfamiliar with the hacks that turn this camera into a beast, check out personal-view.com I am shooting at 720p at around 100 mega bits per second, 1080p hacks can be as high as 170, and there are lower end hacks for more conservative users. This is up from the original 17 mbs that the camera is shooting at stock.
Not trying to plug here, and I have no loyalty to panasonic, just the hacked version of the camera and the community that makes it possible. |
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Aanything
Joined: 27 Aug 2011 Posts: 2187 Location: Piacenza, Italy
Expire: 2014-05-30
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Aanything wrote:
Quote: |
I am shooting at 720p at around 100 mega bits per second, 1080p hacks can be as high as 170 |
Bit rate means nothing.
I mean, higher bitrate may mean higher quality if the compression algorythm is the same. If it isn't, it's impossible to tell which is better only counting mbps.
Then, again, lgorythms are optimized for the kind of data the sensor produces, pushing the amount of data doesn't necessarily mean the video quality is going to be that better. Surely it must be, since the growing number of enthusiasts users of hacked panasonic cameras, but the number alone means nothing but more storage needed. _________________ C&C and editing of my pics are always welcome
Samples from my lenses
My gear
My Flickr |
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me
Joined: 02 May 2012 Posts: 10
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:35 am Post subject: |
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me wrote:
You are correct, and the ceiling for quality was around 170 and many of the top hacks are between 70 and 150. Most of the stuff to do with the creations of the hacks is over my head still, but I assure you the hacks have been optimized for quality, many things beyond the bit rates have been changed, including color profiles. The latest hack is called VY Canis Majoris and the creator is Driftwood. If you want to follow the testing of the hack now is a good time since it was just released 4 or 5 days ago. here is the link. http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/3056/driftwood-vy-canis-majoris-night-day-pm-skin-tone-soft...-more-to-come/p1 |
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Aanything
Joined: 27 Aug 2011 Posts: 2187 Location: Piacenza, Italy
Expire: 2014-05-30
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:49 am Post subject: |
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Aanything wrote:
Thanks, really interesting. _________________ C&C and editing of my pics are always welcome
Samples from my lenses
My gear
My Flickr |
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ramcewan
Joined: 02 Mar 2012 Posts: 198 Location: New England, USA
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 11:09 am Post subject: |
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ramcewan wrote:
lets be honest with each other for a moment.... Most people in the mirror-less market are and will remain those looking for something better than a P&S that can be used with multiple lenses like a DSLR. In this arena two things matter most; lens choice and price.
Cannon does well in the DSLR market and the SLR market before that because not only can you get a nice camera for a decent price (most of their sales are not the 5D type) from Cannon but you can get many many lenses for that camera. Likewise Nikon still does well in this market by offering affordable bodies with many lens choices.
Olympus and Panasonic are doing well in the M4/3 market because they have a shared lens mount with many choices. Adding adapter for FT and all the MF lenses the user of these cameras has many choices. Not to mention all the models are very affordable with even the OM-D being just under a grand for the body.
Sony does well in the mirror-less market because they make an excellent product and it is very adaptable to MF lenses as evidence by the number of users here with Nex cameras. Likewise it is very affordable.
Nikon and Samsung mirror-less are niche cameras in part because they went with their own mounts and there is less choice for lenses.
Fuji is too much $$, you're over $2,000 USD just for a camera and a lens. This appeals to those who would also consider a Leica and well if you had the choice and obviously money isn't a concern you'd go for the Leica, what's a few grand more when you're at double the price of an OM-D alread?
Sigma is building 19mm and 30mm lenses for just two mirror-less mounts; m43 and Nex, they clearly agree this is where the market is.
Cannon could own the market in a few years if they made a mirror-less that supported AF/AE for a large number of legacy lenses from Cannon or they went with a m43 mount. If Cannon adopts it's large sensor P&S to be interchangeable lens and sells a few lenses in a new mount then it will not do well and Oly/Panny and Sony will continue to dominate. _________________ Olympus e-pl2 with VF-2
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Mflenses: Hexanon 50mm f1.8 AR, Hexanon 40mm f1.8 AR, Hoya 80-200mm f4 in AR, Sigma Super-Wide 24mm f2.8 AR, Jupiter-8 50mm f2, Tair 3 300mm f4.5 Brussels Grand Prix
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MFT Digital lenses: Panasonic 45-200mm f4 OIS, Panasonic 14mm f2.5, Olympus 14-42mm II f3.5, Olympus Zuiko 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6 ED (FT with MFT adapter) |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I dunno about Samsung being 'niche' they offer a APS-C sensor at a great price and apart from c-mounts (where very few will cover the sensor) anything you can put on a NEX you can put on an NX.
Samsung's lenses are great and cheap too, I just hope they can continue to build market share because they are offering a superior product to most of the others at a lower price, that is the way to go.
Considering a brand new NX10 with a 14mp APS-C sensor and an excellent 20-50 kit lens cost me 180ukp from a major high-street retailer, then the offerings from others look distinctly overpriced and with their smaller sensors (apart from the NEX and Fuji) are much less capable with old MF lenses.
Obviously Samsung saw the great sales of the NEX so created the NX, let's hope the OM-D sells really well then Samsung will produce something similar but with an APS-C sensor, that would be a fantastic camera.
I do wonder why the NEX-7 sold so well when the NX200 was such a good camera and cheaper, I guess a large part of it is because people like to be able to boast 'ooh look, I have a NEX-7 or a Fuji X100 etc' and the Samsung name doesn't have the same cachet.
I'm a photographer, not a gear freak, I could care less what it says on the front of my camera or who made it, I just want the best bang for my buck. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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ramcewan
Joined: 02 Mar 2012 Posts: 198 Location: New England, USA
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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ramcewan wrote:
Ian,
Yes the Samsung is probably a better camera then the m43s, in fact I am somewhat miffed I didn't see or consider it when I was buying. Samsung is great at coming out with something very similar to a top market leader and selling it for a cheaper price, often times after being involved in the manufacture of the top market leader's device. Take for example the iPhone which Samsung made many parts for and then Samsung comes out with the Galaxy phones, ditto the iPad and Samsung Tab series, they can't even come up with original names, I mean the NX series is one letter away from the very similar NEX series. I remember when Samsung first appeared in the USA they were making VCRs that were almost exactly the same as the Sony ones but at 1/3 less price, back then Samsung was an off brand, now they've got their own name but they still continue to copy the competition, a win for the consumer but frustrating for the competition.
That said you can't argue with the numbers, in Japan in 2011 Olympus had 36.6 percent share, Panasonic 29.3 percent, and Sony 27.3 percent. That is 2/3 of the mirror-less market between the three of them. I expect we'll see that trend continue for 2012.
I know the sensor size is easy to grasp onto and say the m43 will never be that good because it has a small sensor size but I tend to disagree. The m43 sensor is big enough to achieve the DOF missing from smaller sensored cameras. I think given the performance seen from the latest crop of 16 MP m43 sensors in the Panasonic and OM-D people are not going to feel like they are missing something. Megapixels will go up for m43 and noise will decrease or remain manageable.
The lenses and ergonomics are what make the difference for many and Olympus has that nailed imho. If the OM-D is as huge a hit as it's shaping up to be m43 is going to keep dominating. _________________ Olympus e-pl2 with VF-2
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Mflenses: Hexanon 50mm f1.8 AR, Hexanon 40mm f1.8 AR, Hoya 80-200mm f4 in AR, Sigma Super-Wide 24mm f2.8 AR, Jupiter-8 50mm f2, Tair 3 300mm f4.5 Brussels Grand Prix
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MFT Digital lenses: Panasonic 45-200mm f4 OIS, Panasonic 14mm f2.5, Olympus 14-42mm II f3.5, Olympus Zuiko 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6 ED (FT with MFT adapter) |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Well, the M4/3 sensor is too small for me, it doesn't suit my lens collection. I really don't like this trend towards smaller sensors. I don't want to use modern plastic zoom lenses, I want to use superb old lenses made of metal and glass that have already lasted 50 or more years, how many of these modern plastic pieces of crap will still work in 5 years, let alone 50? A friend has had 5 copies of the Canon EF 1.8/50 in the last 6 years since he bought his digital EOS, he loves the IQ of that lens and just lives with the fact it will fall apart and he will have to buy another one, he reasons 'it's only 80 quid' and I laugh because I know full well I have a dozen 50mm lenses that are as good and will never break unless I really abuse them and they cost a mere fraction of that 80 quid.
I really don't see what people have against Samsung, they are providing a great product at a great price, makes it hard to understand why people fawn over something like the OM-D when you can buy something like the NX11 for a lot less:
I still think it largely boils down to boasting, people like to be able to boast 'look I got an OM-D' or 'look I got an iphone' when to me, they look stupid because they spent more money for no good reason other than image and name tag. It's part of the capitalist mentality that I truly abhor. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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ramcewan
Joined: 02 Mar 2012 Posts: 198 Location: New England, USA
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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ramcewan wrote:
Quote: |
...in fact I am somewhat miffed I didn't see or consider it when I was buying... |
I really am kicking myself when I look at the samsungs now.
The NX200 is probably every bit as good as the NEX 7 at half the price, if it had an available EV-F it would be a sure winner. Somehow Samsung has missed the boat on marketing is all I can guess. _________________ Olympus e-pl2 with VF-2
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Mflenses: Hexanon 50mm f1.8 AR, Hexanon 40mm f1.8 AR, Hoya 80-200mm f4 in AR, Sigma Super-Wide 24mm f2.8 AR, Jupiter-8 50mm f2, Tair 3 300mm f4.5 Brussels Grand Prix
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MFT Digital lenses: Panasonic 45-200mm f4 OIS, Panasonic 14mm f2.5, Olympus 14-42mm II f3.5, Olympus Zuiko 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6 ED (FT with MFT adapter) |
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fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 1974
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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fermy wrote:
I agree that Samsung have a great system, but failing miserably to make any impact in sales. However, the main strength of their system is a good selection of well priced native lenses paired with APS-C sensor. I guess it's too subtle for most buyers, since m4/3 has the best selection of native lenses, while NEX has the best sensor.
As a platform for legacy glass though, Samsung is not that great. m4/3 has a distinct edge for Tele lenses, while NEX has distinct edge for wides due to better sensor, peaking, smaller form factor. In addition Samsung loses not only on c-mounts, but also on Leica M glass. |
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