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Tokina AT-X 2.5/90mm "The Bokina II"
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:51 pm    Post subject: Tokina AT-X 2.5/90mm "The Bokina II" Reply with quote

This "legendary lens", which was opened after the collapse of the company Vivitar in the way of patent acquisition for the Vivitar Series 1 Macro Tokina 2.5/90mm with different Mounts reintroduced in the 80s , reached me in Canon FD Mount. During the time the brand Vivitar did exist, this Vivitar Series 1 2.5/90mm lens was already produced by Tokina.


During the reconstruction efforts the conversion FD to EF Mount seemed to be difficult due to the mechanical arrangement of the aperture lever and its dominant transmission lever that the time required for the parts to be produced and building "workarounds" but would be thrilled if you wanted to make high demands.

After about six hours of working, the lens was actually only in a "temporary" solution state. The lens could be used, but it would still at least as many hours of working on the lens, after the final route for the professional conversion was clear to me.

Back to the IQ of Tokina AT-X 2.5/90mm there is to say that this lens in many opinions one of the best 90mm macro at all. .

This Tokina AT-X 2.5/90mm have even the slight improvements compared to the Vivitar Series 1 Macro 2.5/90mm yet. The improvments are on coatings.
So the Tokina has got a better flare compensation..

A conversion documentation I skip, because nobody wants to do voluntarily, as long as he can get this lens with a different Mount like Nikon or Pentax". However, it is also rare and in demand in other types of Mounts.


Technical spec's

Focal length = 90mm, 87mm effective
f = 2.5 Intensity = 2.5
Aperture range of 2.5-32; 2.8 to 4 and then halfsteps to 32
8 elements in 7 groups
Eight aperture blades
Filter diameter 55mm
Minimum Focus Distance 39cm .. 1:2

Here is a link to the American patent for the Vivitar formerly belonging Patent 3942875 to find in which, among other specifications for a 1.9/90mm macro are.

The Tokina macro has the lettering on the lens barrel USA PAT.NO. 3942875, is thus ultimately produced under this patent. Santa

Monica was the headquarters of Vivitar .. if I remember correctly. The company Ponder & Best Inc., two German immigrants who

founded the company in 1938.. and then in 1979 the company founded the Vivitar brand..

http://www.super8data.com/database/m...v_/vivitar.htm

Here, the patent ..No.

http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/3942875.html

What it looks like the Vivitar 2.5/90mm lens was probably "planned" as a Vivitar 1.9/90mm.. if I correctly interpret this page.

Whether and why the specification of the patent has not kept feeding, the lens has "only" an aperture of f2.5 has .. I do not know. But find it really interesting ..


Here are some samples.. EOS 5D MKII, @f2.5 for Bokeh, @5.6-f8 for really macro shots.. , mostly 800px crops..

#1

#2

#3



#4


#5


#6


#7


#8


#9


#10


#11



#12


#13


The Tokina AT-X is one of the finest lenses i do use in this focal lenght.

For everyone who is searching for a fast macro lens... this is a "must have".. and a bang for the buck..

Cheers
Henry


Last edited by hinnerker on Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:29 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And this is the from Canon FD to Canon EF converted Tokina AT-X 2.5
Bokina



Cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Henry, for posting this. I have the Vivitar and it was the first MF lens I targeted for purchase after I got back into DSLR photography. It took awhile before I found one with a price I could justify. However, mine is a Minolta mount and I have yet to complete the conversion to the Sony A-mount. It is not really too difficult, but I need to have a machinist do some work and I must plan it out precisely. The biggest issue is the rear element being attached to the bayonet portion of the mount. Otherwise I would have just shaved that portion off.

I have kept my eyes open for an M42 version, but as you say, they are rarely seen and when they are, they go quite high. Just last week one sold with a bid of $263.85 and a few days ago another with a Nikon mount went for over $200. I consider myself lucky to have found mine for $98 including the 1:1 adapter.

I'm looking forward to being able to use it as a regular short tele. For my use, the 1:2 macro ability is plenty, but still, I expect mostly to use it as a regular lens. I'm surprised when I rarely see it mentioned when people discuss lenses in the 85mm range. I have copied the following from an interesting blog. The blog can be found using the link that follows the quote.

The Vivitar S1/Tokina 90mm f/2.5 can be found ranked among the top few lenses on Photodo's greatest lenses chart. Below are Photodo's top 5 ranked lenses, based on an array of scientific performance tests:

1. Grade: 4.8 35mm/AF Canon EF 200/1,8L USM
2. Grade: 4.7 35mm/AF Contax G Planar 45/2,0
3. Grade: 4.6 35mm/MF Tokina AT-X 90/2,5 macro (Vivitar Series 1 90mm)
4. Grade: 4.6 35mm/MF Pentax SMC-A 85/1,4
5. Grade: 4.6 35mm/MF LeicaR Elmarit-R 90/2,8 discontinued


http://makingnottaking.blogspot.com/2009/10/vivitar-series-1-90mm-f25-vmc-12-bokina.html

Please post more photos as you can. I'd love to see other than close-up shots.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how the Vivitar 90mm f/2.8 (made by Komine, I believe) stacks up against this one. Anybody know? Just idle curiosity on my part.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was researching, the f/2.8 was considered very good, but consensus was not as good as the f/2.5.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
I wonder how the Vivitar 90mm f/2.8 (made by Komine, I believe) stacks up against this one. Anybody know? Just idle curiosity on my part.


I also did a test to answer exactly this question.. and came to the same conclusion as woodrim

the candidates/competitiors (l. to r.).... Vivitar 2.8/90mm (Komine), Panagor 2.8/90mm, Kiron 2.8/105mm.. against the Tokina AT-X 2.5/90mm. All shots taken on a very heavyweight and solid "Linhof" double-leg tripod and using LiveView on the 5D MKII.. and my best glasses.. Very Happy







The Panagor and the Vivitar are absolutely the same lenses...
you can see also in the follwing shots.. (only different cosmetics on the engravings..)... so i will no longer test the Panagor.. its equal to Vivitar.



As you can see, the Kiron shows a lot of CA and glowing effect on harsh edges, IMHO the Tokina is the best controlled lens under this terms..

A boring shot against a building 25m away shows the sharpness and contrast of the competitors..



With another shot i will show, the reason why i prefer the Tokina ..
in terms of microcontrast, the Tokina leads the range..

A well known 20 Euro note...



As you can see, the Tokina is the best.. in kontrast and sharpness. Especially in the secure/hologram zone/area, the Word "Euro" shows the difference exactly..

In the next days i will do some shots at longer distances and i get the chance to make a comparison between the

Tokina AT-X 2.5/90mm vs. Voigtlander APO Lanthar 2.5/125mm..
a friend of mine will give me his copy for this test..

Cheers
Henry


Last edited by hinnerker on Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

superb review Henry, great macros captures


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much for your report, Hinnerker. It appears to me that, not only is the Tokina the sharpest, but that the legendary Kiron is the least sharp of the bunch.

Can I assume that my Vivitar S1 105/2.5 is the same optic as the Kiron? Mine is a late S1 with the late style rubber grip, and s/n beginning in 22.

I have found with my own testing of my Vivitar/Kiron that it is not as sharp as my Tamron 90/2.5 52B. The drawback to the Tamron, of course, is its notorious hotspot, but I don't really find it objectionable with the sort of macro work I've done with it.

I don't suppose you've had the occasion to add a Tamron 52B to your stable yet, and give it a similar test?


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Bokina and I know it's qualities very well. Nice samples, but I have many like those so I am more interested in the conversion because mine is also in FD mount. Wink I was afraid the conversion would be quite complicated. Is there no shortcut to get a bit longer maximum focus distance without infinity?

I've been wondering how the new Tamron 90/2.8 stacks up against this lens. I'm getting a bit tired of stop-down metering and I would like the 9-blade rounded aperture of the Tamron for nicer OOF highlights (not ugly octagons).


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
Thanks very much for your report, Hinnerker. It appears to me that, not only is the Tokina the sharpest, but that the legendary Kiron is the least sharp of the bunch.

Can I assume that my Vivitar S1 105/2.5 is the same optic as the Kiron? Mine is a late S1 with the late style rubber grip, and s/n beginning in 22.

I have found with my own testing of my Vivitar/Kiron that it is not as sharp as my Tamron 90/2.5 52B. The drawback to the Tamron, of course, is its notorious hotspot, but I don't really find it objectionable with the sort of macro work I've done with it.

I don't suppose you've had the occasion to add a Tamron 52B to your stable yet, and give it a similar test?


Sorry, but i cant say anything about the Tamron.. i simply have no chance to get a copy for a test..

I also dont know something about the similarities between Kino Precisions = Kiron Macro 2.8/105 mm or the Vivitar 105mm.

I only have the Vivitar 2.8/90mm and only swap this for the Tokina. The Tokina and Vivitar change hands, after its going to be clear during the conversion from FD to EF mount that it becomes "uneconomical work"...

So the owner decided to take the Vivitar instead of paying lots of money for the conversion. And i finished the work on my own risk and time.

The Tokina AT-X is maybe the best MF macro i have tested in the "economical range"..

One thing i have to point out: The sharpness in the Viewfinder "snaps-in" very, very clearly. Havent seen this with nearly no other lens. So this makes the work with the lens very easy and nice.

The max rotating of the focusring to get 1:2 is about 320-340 degree...
The other lenses do have a lot longer way to reach close/infinity distance (Kiron 700 degree, Vivitar 990 degree !!!)

So for "fast freehand work" the Tokina is perfect as you can see on my macros in the first post.

Another thing to classify the lenses .. the Vivitar and Panagor move the whole optical group during rotating from infinity to 1:1.
The Kiron and the Tokina do have a fixed rear glass - element and only the rest-part of the optical group is moving when changing from infinity to 1:1 !!!!

Another interesting comparison with a money note i did with a Leica Summicron 2.0/90mm. In the nearfield, the Tokina is more contrasty and sharper ..




But if you come to medium distances, the Lenses become equal ...

This is another interesting thing.. the Vivitar/Panagor and the Kiron fails on medium and longer distances..

The Tokina is also very good for distance shots.. and also on infinity..
Tokina left, Leica Summicron right...



In the next days i will do some shots with normal sujets on medium and longer distances..

Also the comparison with the Apo Lanthar 2.5/125mm seemed intersting to me..
I expect a better CA correction on the Apo Lanthar, but in terms of sharpness and contrast, the Tokina could be a good competitor..

Cheers
Henry


Last edited by hinnerker on Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:36 pm; edited 5 times in total


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhamB wrote:
I have the Bokina and I know it's qualities very well. Nice samples, but I have many like those so I am more interested in the conversion because mine is also in FD mount. Wink I was afraid the conversion would be quite complicated. Is there no shortcut to get a bit longer maximum focus distance without infinity?

I've been wondering how the new Tamron 90/2.8 stacks up against this lens. I'm getting a bit tired of stop-down metering and I would like the 9-blade rounded aperture of the Tamron for nicer OOF highlights (not ugly octagons).


The trick is to bring the aperture Lever into the tubus.. the aperture inside of the Tubus moves up and down, depending on the extension of the lens. Therefore its neccesary to use the old, long lever inside of the lens tubus. So the conversion is not reversible..



but there is no place in the tubus to .... bad.

So you have to make a "workaround".. take the aperture lever and reform the end of the lever to fix it against the aperture ring.. That only works with 2k-glue as an improvisation. Otherwise you have to machine a new part/ring, which can hold the lever and connect the new part with the aperture ring.

In this solution you lost one of the screw - holes, for connecting/screwing the new EF Adapterplate on the Tubus rest, because the new lever- will take place where the 3rd hole is and if you would use the hole, the rotation way of the aperture ring will blocked at f8. So you have to drill a new whole on another place to connect both parts (Adaptermount and Tubus).

Thats not all... finally you have to machine a new distance - block and a light seal ring. First item to get correct infinity and the second item to prevent the new construction from light coming from the side..
There is also a complication possible, if the second lever counterpart is not holding in place during the conversion. On all Canon FD lenses is a small lever, which switches inside of the Tubus and blocked the aperture from moving, if you dont pay attention of that "block-lever".. if that happens, you have to de-block this lever with a second srewdriver and return the aperture lever to its normal position... sophisticated work if this happens..

complicated and i dont wont to do that a second time.. it takes a lot of time. Better to sell the lens cheap and look for another one with Nikon or Pentax, M42 or another mount..

Cheers
Henry


Last edited by hinnerker on Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:17 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superb test, Henry! I'm looking forward to comparison with a Lanthar 125. Wink


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hinnerker wrote:


In the next days i will do some shots at longer distances and i get the chance to make a comparison between the

Tokina AT-X 2.5/90mm vs. Voigtlander APO Lanthar 2.5/125mm..
a friend of mine will give me his copy for this test..

Cheers
Henry


Hello,

that will be very interesting because the Tokina has many(!) CAs, I think it is too contrasty and unusable for shooting metals.

M.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

komet wrote:
hinnerker wrote:


In the next days i will do some shots at longer distances and i get the chance to make a comparison between the

Tokina AT-X 2.5/90mm vs. Voigtlander APO Lanthar 2.5/125mm..
a friend of mine will give me his copy for this test..

Cheers
Henry


Hello,

that will be very interesting because the Tokina has many(!) CAs, I think it is too contrasty and unusable for shooting metals.

M.


Yes and no... it has CA on reflecting metallic surfaces in conjunction with heavy sunlight conditions, as the following crops will show..


This candle-holder is made of polished pure silver.. reflecting very strong !!



And here are the crops on different apertures..




Sure, the APO Lanthar has apochromatic correction, but the CA is easily correctable in PS...and there is really no need to say, this lens would be unusable for shooting metal..

There i have seen lots of "bigger brand" lenses.. with more CA in such situations..

Cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Henry: Thanks for the description of the conversion. Too bad they made the construction so complicated. That seems to be the case with many FD lenses. I'll just keep using my FD copy for macro only.

I think the CA isn't bad, but in many cases it's definitely not correctible. At f/2.5-4 there is blue/yellow LoCA that overlaps with the areas before and behind the focal plane. There is no way you can remove that CA with PP.

I never shoot metal objects so I rarely get purple fringing.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great presentation Henry! Many thanks! #6 , #7 my favorite ones from series. I have Vivitar Series 1 90mm f2.5 + matched converter. Unfortunately mine is heavily fungused it's impact picture quality pretty well. Now when I see your beautiful images I have to think about more to clean her soon.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhamB wrote:
@Henry: Thanks for the description of the conversion. Too bad they made the construction so complicated. That seems to be the case with many FD lenses. I'll just keep using my FD copy for macro only.


The Minolta mount I bought is a very easy conversion to other mounts. The mount is very thick, allowing for trimming to other registrations.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my test of the macro lenses, i realized, that Panagor, Vivitar and Kiron are not made for distances longer than macro.. they are "specialists"..not more and not less..

So its a good idea to show how my favourite Tokina works near infinity and as a normal short telephoto lens for portrait. Totally different from the others.. so you can use it with great results at medium and far distance shots..

Here are the results.. first a total of a boring scene..



and the infinity crop..



At medium distances, for example portrait work, this lens is a great perfomer. Normally i hate to shot portrait with a macro lens, because is more a dermatology scan than a portrait.. but it has some advantages, if your model is not to close.. or only a bit younger than mine.. Very Happy
(But im in love with her since nearly 30 years..)

All shots taken @2.5-4 (mostly 2.5)

#1


#2 nice OOF highlights..


#3


#4


#5



IMHO this lens is a must have...

Cheers
Henry


Last edited by hinnerker on Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The test with the APO Lanthar will be a very difficult one for the old Bokina to compete. I am interested in seeing the results, but from pictures I've seen from the Lanther, well... This will be a 35 year old design against the best of today.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
The test with the APO Lanthar will be a very difficult one for the old Bokina to compete. I am interested in seeing the results, but from pictures I've seen from the Lanther, well... This will be a 35 year old design against the best of today.


Yes, but its an interesting thing to see differences clearly...

I already did some very fast test shots with the APO Lanthar in front of the
5D MKII and what i realized was the very fine correction of CA on metallic surfaces.. but in terms of sharpness and contrast, there is IMHO not such a big difference for the money.. but lets wait and see..

A friend in the german forum did ask me to look for a competitor from today.. a Canon 2.8/100mm Makro II or an old Zuiko 2/90mm.
So i would do him the favour.... and organized this APO Lanthar.
(Maybe later i have the chance to buy this from my old photograph-collegue)

But the only lens i could have in a comparison is an APO Lanthar 2.5/125mm. So i would be an idiot if i would let this chance passing by.

Cheers
Henry


Last edited by hinnerker on Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:12 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great conversion hinnerker. You have most likely created a very unique and desireable iteration of this lens. I have never seen one of these converted to EOS before.

I have owned most of the macro we discuss on this forum, save for the expensive voigtlander and zeiss lenses (cant afford those yet). Some have been since sold but at any given time I have owned the Vivitar 90mm f/2.8 (Komine-made), Vivitar Series 1 90mm f/2.5, Kiron 105mm (also have a copy of the Lester Dine 105, and Vivitar Series 1 105), Nikon 105mm f/4, Nikon 55mm f/3.5. It was only recently I came across a Tokina 90mm f/2.5 Bokina (That wasn't priced at some outrageous amount of money).

The Tokina 90mm doesn't leave me bag. Honestly, I have no use to most of the others at this point. I love having them. I even take them out merely out of pity sometimes (It feels like Toy Story, where all the lenses are like "I wish he still used us...") But the fact is, the Tokina 90mm is just better. It is extremely crisp (appears to out-resolve my sensor fairly easily) and this includes being used at f/2.5. I have never owned a lens that made images this sharp wide open!

The only MF macro that has come to close to performing nearly as well in my regular shooting, across the board, has been my Kiron and Lester A. Dine 105mm lenses. Interest to note, I have owned two copies of the Vivitar Series 1 105mm, the supposed identical formula made by Kiron, for Vivitar. And neither of them were as sharp at early apertures as the Kiron/Dine. The Vivitar 105mm consistently showed CA where the Kiron/Dines showed FAR less. Hinnerker, I find your Kiron 105 results to be interesting. It appears as CoolTouch said, the Kiron 105 is the poorest performer of your test subjects. Could be the sample of your lens, or perhaps I managed to get a pretty good one! But regardless, the Tokina 90mm still bests all of these optically.

The Komine-made Vivitar 90mm I have found to be not all that impressive. It is a good lens, that can produce sharp results and some nice OOF effects, but nothing spectacular. And it suffers wide open.

Even the supposed identical formula Vivitar Series 1 90mm f/2.5 sits a step below the Tokina 90mm in my mind. Both produce outstanding sharpness wide open. Some say they find the Vivitar's OOF smoother due to a rounder aperture than the Tokina at f/2.8 and f/4 because due to the design of the aperture, the blades create a "sawblade" shape rather than a smooth circular shape with the Tokina. The Vivitar's remains roundish the entire range. I have found this to be a little difference and instead think the newer coatings of the Tokina to truly enhance the images and capabilities tenfold.

I cannot agree with those here on the forum more who are saying the Tokina 90mm, when it can be had at a reasonable price, is the best thing for the money. It's the best macro lens I have ever used.

Personal Ranking Macro Lenses
(Based on all factors in general use including Sharpness, CA, Aesthetic qualities, and more)

1. Tokina 90mm f/2.5
2. Lester A. Dine 105mm f/2.8 and Kiron 105mm f/2.8
3. Vivitar Series 1 90mm f/2.5
4. Vivitar Series 1 105mm f/2.5
5. Vivitar 90mm f/2.5 (sometimes labeled f/2.8, all Komine-made)


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hinnerker wrote:


Sure, the APO Lanthar has apochromatic correction, but the CA is easily correctable in PS...and there is really no need to say, this lens would be unusable for shooting metal..

There i have seen lots of "bigger brand" lenses.. with more CA in such situations..

Cheers
Henry


Hello,
if you would try it at 1:1 with a wrist watch for example you would see the CAs better. A "normal" Tamron SP MF 2,8/90mm here is much better. I believe that the Tokina has too much contrast which seems to be more sympathic. Many lenses have too much contrast at the expense of resolution. But it is a very good one with mythos...

M.





M.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those macro shots are quite amazing!


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Komet...

First of all, the APO Lanthar reached 1:1 if i remember correct.. the Tokina only 1:2... and i cant use the lens with the extension, because now its an EF Mount.. dont know if the normal extender is a ring or a lens construction like the old vivitar ...

So i can compair the lenses only at 1:2 ratio.

here are some shots and crops from an very old and crappy wrist watch.. to show the CA.. at 1:2 and @ 2.5, 2 Strobe units bouncing from the ceilling..
(sorry for not showing a Lange or Breitling watch.. Very Happy )




and a crop out of the pic..



@f4



Please keep in mind, that Tokina did change the coatings of the glases.. its other then the old Vivitar SEries 1 Bokina !! Definitely!

Cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe even better portrait than macro lens, I was amazed by portraits!