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Tokina AT-X 2.5/90mm "The Bokina II"
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

komet wrote:
this is very interesting and confirms my experiences, the Nikon MF 2,8/105 is the winner

I included the Nikkor for comparison; Canon, Zeiss, Pentax also got 4 stars
I noted that no 100mm got 'Excellent'
if you can use normal focal, lens like Leica 60, Zeiss 60, Nikkor 55 should give even better results


PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

poilu wrote:
komet wrote:
this is very interesting and confirms my experiences, the Nikon MF 2,8/105 is the winner

I included the Nikkor for comparison; Canon, Zeiss, Pentax also got 4 stars
I noted that no 100mm got 'Excellent'
if you can use normal focal, lens like Leica 60, Zeiss 60, Nikkor 55 should give even better results


Yes, i have got the Elmarit 2.8/60mm and this lens is phantastic. But i missed the Macro 90mm in my range of lenses.

The reports you post here, confirm my results and opinions about the Tokina and the Kiron from my test..

Thanks again for posting. Poilu

Cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhamB wrote:
komet wrote:
Hello,
this is very interesting and confirms my experiences, the Nikon MF 2,8/105 is the winner.
M.


But that test only evaluates sharpness. In the bokeh department the Bokina most probably still wins. Smile


yes, ive got the same opinion..

AhamB Where are you located in germany?

Cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
Thanks for posting the review, Poilu! Very interesting results. I guess, according to chasseur d' Images the Tamron and Nikkor did best. Personally, I suspect the Tokina they obtained may not have been a typical example. I've seen too many amazing images taken with that lens to rate it simply "bon."


I also question the validity of those tests.

Unless they tested three to five new lenses from the manufacturer,I would say those tests are pretty much invalid.

Not to mention the Micro-Nikkor 2.8/105 doing so well on the macro tests.I've had a few copies of the Micro-Nikkor 2.8/105 (in search of a copy that would shoot well at 1:1,being a Nikkor collector this was truly sad Sad )and while the lens shoots well from 1:2 to infinity,I've never been impressed with it's 1:1 macro capabilities.When using with the PN-11 extension tube to go 1:1 the images are no where close to the Tokina 2.5/90,the Vivitar Series 1 2.5/90 or the Kiron 2.8/105 for that matter.Also giving the lens high marks at f16 is a joke,the lens shoots best from f5.6-f11 with f5.6-f8 being optimum.

Bjrn Rrslett's opinion reflects what I've experienced using the lens...

http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_spec.html

"This complex lens design features CRC correction to give it very good image quality over its entire focusing range from 1:2 to infinity. Unexpectedly, peak performance occurs for distant objects and the image quality is slightly reduced when it is brought to its near limit at half life-size. The focal length is a mere 88 mm at the near limit. To go beyond 1:2, it's necessary to add the PN-11 extension ring. However, the CRC system isn't working optimal when the extension is added so Nikon advises the lens be stopped down more to retain flat-field correction. The lens flares easily and the use of a long lens shade is recommended at all times. Best image sharpness occurs at f/5.6-f/8 and the quality deteriorates very rapidly beyond f/16"


PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hinnerker wrote:
cooltouch wrote:
.....

My camera is a Canon XS (1000D) with a 10mp APS-C sized sensor, which renders images with a max resolution of 3888x2592 pixels. My in-camera sharpness is set to 7 and contrast to 0 (neutral). I will not perform any PP other than cropping and resizing images.


Sharpness to 7 ??? Whow.. Shocked
Me, i only take the standard profile with sharpness to 3! otherwise you will get strong stair-artefacts on highlighted edges..


I haven't noticed this, and I hate stair-stepped diagonals. I bumped my camera's sharpness up shortly after I bought it about a year and a half ago, and just haven't bothered with changing it. Seemed like my pics just weren't sharp enough coming out of the camera, which is why I did this. I have noticed if I bump up the sharpness too high in Canon's DPP, get other types of artifactual "noise" that I don't care for.

Quote:
I have two cams.. EOS 5D MKII (FF, 22mp) or an EOS 400D (APS-C, 10mp)... the 400D has no LiveView, so its a bit difficult to nail the focus with the cam

In terms of resolution i can switch down the 5D MKII to SRAW1 Mode.. 3861x2574 pixels to make it compairable?

What kind of light do you prefer and its arrangement?


I think your 5DII's SRAW1 Mode is plenty close enough to mine's maximum for this sort of test. I wonder if it will even make that much of a difference in terms of sharpness testing?

For lighting, I mounted my camera/lens onto a copy stand, and brought it outdoors, then set it up in open shade. The time was close to mid-day, so the ambient light's color temperature was correct. For the coin, I used an incandescent light located off to one side, then color-corrected the white balance in Canon's DPP software.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
The test with the APO Lanthar will be a very difficult one for the old Bokina to compete. I am interested in seeing the results, but from pictures I've seen from the Lanther, well... This will be a 35 year old design against the best of today.


Yes, but we will see...


Here's the opponent..

One of the nicest looking lenses i have ever seen and hold in my hand...





During the next days i am going start the research.. and post results..

Cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before starting the comparison in some pic's.. some further impressive shots with the Tokina AT-X 2.5/90mm with a P-Cir filter from Leica to eliminate the reflections on the window glas..

This little boy caught himself between my window and a fly screen door to my balkony. So the shots are taken through the window glass.. a great model for some minutes. All images are 800 pix crop, EOS 5D MKII










Cheers
Henry


Last edited by hinnerker on Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:32 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, lets talk about the comparison with the Voigtlnder APO Lanthar 2.5/125mm.

First of all.. the APO Lanthar is one of the best macro lenses ever build.
To hold this lens in hands, is like .... its a Masterpiece of mechanical craftmanship. I like it to work with that lens.
The lens has electronical communication with the EOS Circuit, so the aperture can be closed by camera electronic and the only thing you have to do is to "nail the focus".. The Lanthar is a dream...

For me it would be interesting to see, how an old formula, like the Vivitar/Tokina made AT-X 2.5/90mm works against a modern formula.

Here are some shots in comparison.. (to equal the different focal lengths, the position of the Tripod was slightly changed)

TOP= Lanthar, Down = Tokina



Crop of both..



Not that big difference..

Here are two Crops.. compairing the CA on metallic surfaces..
Left Lanthar, right Tokina..



and this was the sujet in total..



I think you can forget this CA / Purple fringing..

But one thing i realized seemed to be important... a bit of glowing on edges on the Tokina..

First the complete scene..



And now crops out of this.. top= APO Lanthar, bottom= Tokina AT-X




For my eyes, there is not such a big difference in Lanthar and the Bokina in terms of optical quality. (always left Lanthar.. shown)









Not to run in the risk with APO Lanthar owner, i must say.. the Lanthar is a great lens.. indeed. But the optical difference for me is to small, to pay the difference in price of about 1.000 Euro for this Lanthar. For sure, the Lanthar is the overall better lens in terms of CA correction, glowing and colorrendering

but

the Tokina is very close, for a 25 Years old product.

During my test shots i did have many electronic faults with the Lanthar..

ERR01.. on display..

After removing the Lanthar, switch off the cam and repeat sometimes up to 3 times the procedere, the Lanthar works again.

So me, i decided to keep my Tokina in my bag. The APO Lanthar is a great lens.. of course, but for me, there is a lot of "HYPE" with this Lanthar.

Cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting set of tests, Henry. Considering the price difference and the number of errors you were getting, I'm afraid I'd have trouble justifying the expense of the Lanthar also.

The Lanthar appears to provide a higher contrast image, which might be illustrated best by the Tokina's edge glow and the Lanthar's lack of it. A bit of purple fringing with the Tokina, which can be fixed easily enough, but they appear to be very close in terms of sharpness.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am really amazed by the Tokina and even more by the Lanthar, how did they manage to make such well corrected lens and are there any macro lens out there that equals its low CA? Zeiss Macro-Planar?

About the Kiron, this proves my worst fears about this lens, my test showed same results in fact my Takumar 50/1.4 with extension tubes were sharper in some instances. And I thought my findings had to do with a bad MD->MAF adapter that has some play on the MAF side, well that could also be a factor but it seems it doesn't account for all the sharpness. The Kiron still have very pleasant color rendering on my KM5D though so it's still my preferred lens for macro Smile


PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
A bit of purple fringing with the Tokina, which can be fixed easily enough, but they appear to be very close in terms of sharpness.


I've said this before, but you can't correct longitudinal CA or purple fringing when it's superimposed on your main subject (in case of macro shots). When you try to desatureate it you mess up the subject as well... This, and the glow makes the Tokina less usable wide open.

Not that you'd shoot scenes like this very often, but I think the Tokina wouldn't look as good here: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/810600/7#7736422 Wink


PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This lens is quite scarce on ebay and basicly everywhere else, I've never seen one in several times I looked recently. Is this because it was made in a small number of copies or because the people don't ever think of selling theirs? Twisted Evil


PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

symphonic wrote:
This lens is quite scarce on ebay and basicly everywhere else, I've never seen one in several times I looked recently. Is this because it was made in a small number of copies or because the people don't ever think of selling theirs? Twisted Evil


Keep looking! I sold three of them already on Ebay. Kept one and will never sell that on Smile


PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

symphonic wrote:
This lens is quite scarce on ebay and basicly everywhere else, I've never seen one in several times I looked recently. Is this because it was made in a small number of copies or because the people don't ever think of selling theirs? Twisted Evil


Keep looking! I sold three of them already on Ebay. Kept one and will never sell that on Smile


PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may sell mine some time, but it's an unconverted FD version (so close-up/macro only). That also means the price will be pretty low of course. Wink
I have to to try some replacements first though (I have one or two in mind).


PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhamB wrote:
cooltouch wrote:
A bit of purple fringing with the Tokina, which can be fixed easily enough, but they appear to be very close in terms of sharpness.


I've said this before, but you can't correct longitudinal CA or purple fringing when it's superimposed on your main subject (in case of macro shots). When you try to desatureate it you mess up the subject as well... This, and the glow makes the Tokina less usable wide open.


I agree about the glow, but I'm not sure I'm in complete agreement with your comments regarding CA. So I d/l'd your Opel badge comparision and tried the one-click purple fringe fix in Paint Shop Pro. And got this:



If you zoom in to 200% or so you can still see a tiny amount of purple fringing, but it's gone for all practical purposes.

Or was I misunderstanding your original comment? Because the above was what I meant about getting rid of the purple fringing.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
Or was I misunderstanding your original comment? Because the above was what I meant about getting rid of the purple fringing.


Yeah, it's gone there and that's indeed an example where PF correction can actually be done basically non-destructively. I was talking about LoCA in macro shots however, where the CA is spread out over a larger area. which includes the subject and/or coloured background which you don't want to desaturate.
I must say though that this has played up more strongly when I was using the Tokina on a crop camera (40D) -- it's better on my 5D.

I'll see if I can turn up a few shots from my 40D that demonstrate what I'm talking about.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhamB wrote:
I was talking about LoCA in macro shots however, where the CA is spread out over a larger area. which includes the subject and/or coloured background which you don't want to desaturate.


Okay, I follow you. In fact, I have run into this sort of thing before, but it wasn't really caused by the lens in my case. It was a quirk of the film, or perhaps the scanner, where backlit subjects -- tree branches in winter -- took on a red tinge. It was extremely difficult getting rid of this. Paint Shop Pro also has a CA correction filter where you can zero in on exactly what color you want removed, but if there is any of that color in an area of the photo you don't want messed with, well, too bad! Cool I guess you're talking more about that sort of situation, eh?


PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may need your advices
I am planning to convert an FD AT-X to EF


PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poilu wrote:
Swappo wrote:
How does the Tokina 90/2.5 compare to the Tamron 90/2.5?


I guess 10 test will give 10 differents results
as much as lens variation or personal bias
here are test from respected french 'chasseur d' Images'
centre is center - bord is border
acceptable -good - very good - excellent
moyen - bon - tres bon - excellent

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc62/par12345/ci-tok90-25.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc62/par12345/ci-tam90-25.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc62/par12345/ci-kiron105-28.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc62/par12345/ci-nik-105-28.jpg


the tamron in impressive !


PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi. After reading this a other posts about this lens, I finally managed to buy one in mint condition at ebay. It's a FD mount one and I use it on a nex-6 with an adapter. Here are my first shots, just for checking. Hopefully I'll learn more about using it and will improve the results, but it's quite amazing:


_DSC5861 por Jetulio, en Flickr


_DSC5842 por Jetulio, en Flickr


_DSC5852 por Jetulio, en Flickr


_DSC5790 por Jetulio, en Flickr


_DSC5860 por Jetulio, en Flickr

Regards


PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jetulio wrote:
Hi. After reading this a other posts about this lens, I finally managed to buy one in mint condition at ebay. It's a FD mount one and I use it on a nex-6 with an adapter. Here are my first shots, just for checking. Hopefully I'll learn more about using it and will improve the results, but it's quite amazing:


_DSC5861 por Jetulio, en Flickr


_DSC5842 por Jetulio, en Flickr


_DSC5852 por Jetulio, en Flickr


_DSC5790 por Jetulio, en Flickr


_DSC5860 por Jetulio, en Flickr

Regards


PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The NEX is a very good camera to use with this lens. Do you have the CA control option enabled in your NEX? I find it amazing how well it works; it has made several of my lenses nearly perfect.


PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
The NEX is a very good camera to use with this lens. Do you have the CA control option enabled in your NEX? I find it amazing how well it works; it has made several of my lenses nearly perfect.


Aha, the CA... maybe. Sorry about my ignorance, but, what is that? Embarassed I use the focus peaking option but it works for me better the MF assist.

Pancolart, thanks for uploading my photos properly, as I'm having problems to insert them and don't know why.

Regards


PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jetulio wrote:
woodrim wrote:
The NEX is a very good camera to use with this lens. Do you have the CA control option enabled in your NEX? I find it amazing how well it works; it has made several of my lenses nearly perfect.


Aha, the CA... maybe. Sorry about my ignorance, but, what is that? Embarassed I use the focus peaking option but it works for me better the MF assist.

Pancolart, thanks for uploading my photos properly, as I'm having problems to insert them and don't know why.

Regards


Is it maybe a Color Aberration correction? I always use RAW files, so I think that doesn't affect, does it?