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Flor27
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 1195
Location: Paris, France
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 Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:55 am Post subject: Kyocera 100mm f1:4 Macro for C/Y |
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Flor27 wrote:
It has been a long time for me to search for a good macro lens on budget - two things that are often opposite. And as I am on budget for camera accessories too, why not get a macro lens with integrated ring flash ? 
Actually you can find some lenses of this kind made mainly for medical usage : the Medical / Oral / Dental cameras lenses. Yashica, Nikon and probably Canon did those in various flavour - the first so called Yashica Oral-Eye was a suitcase containing an Electro GT rangefinder, a 55mm f1/4 macro lens and a battery grip (see more at www.yashica-guy.com).
My idea was to get such a kit to... get the lens. My favorite one is the Yashica Medical 100DX, a 35mm SLR Yashica body with a removable 100mm f1:4 C/Y mount lens, integrated ring flash with external battery pack and some electronic servo to control the apperture (see more at www.mir.com.my)
But they often goes for more than 100 € on eBay and are not that commonly seen. 
So when I see a latest variation of the Yashica serie (Dental-Eye III) goes for cheap, I couldn't resist - why cheap ? Because the camera was sold as broken; "I don't care !" I said, just wana that nasty lens !! 
Yesterday the kit in its dedicated suitcase arrived, e baste con le chiacchiere, here are some pictures of the beast !
As you can see and as written in the provided documentation, "the Dental-Eye III is a one-piece 35mm single-lens reflex camera with 100mm/F4 macro lens and build-in flash". Yes, one-piece camera ! I guess it was pure marketing shade of smoke, I can't imagine this lens (optically the same as for Medical 100DX camera kit) being re-engineered) 
So let's go for a little surgery - what a shame for a medical camera 
- Under the camera, battery door removed you will find 6 screws, remove them all :
- Remove the under cover carrefully (there are 2 wires for the battery attached to it) and now you can see under a bunch of wires a small "T" piece of metal that connect the lens to the body with 2 screws; unscrew the lens part :
- Now on the right side of the lens mount, you will find 2 small round rubber cache : remove the top one's - it hides the lens blocker lever actually found on other Yashica cameras.
- Insert a thin metal tool (small screwdriver) into this hole, and while pushing it, turn the lens counter-clockwise. Here we are !
Now and as expected (you said I was lucky ? It's pure genoious brain, man !! ), I have a C/Y mount 100mm f/4 macro lens with built-in ring flash ! This was the easy part, because I now need to wire myself the built-in flashes (there are 3 !) and electronic apperture to be abble to use fuly this "little" gem 
But no latter than now, let's put it in front on my EOS 350D body with hands (I still dont have any C/Y to EOS adapter) and take some shots of my beloved Helios-44-2 lens !
1:15 macro ratio, full frame resized & unsharpened :
100% crop with some sharpening :
1:1 macro ratio, full frame resized & unsharpened :
100% crop with some sharpening :
I also have the 2:1 lens add-on that screw in front of the camera but it's not really usable with a strong lens to camera link - mine was virtually none here, so some camera shakes are clearly visible.
Cheers !
P.S: oh, did I write "Kyocera" as subject ? Well actually, Yashica is a brand owned bu Kyocera, and this maker has some strong experience in optical products, appart from many other things - the lens is 100% kyocera made.
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patrickh
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 8551
Location: Oregon
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:16 am Post subject: |
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patrickh wrote:
Unbelievable
Good for you
Amazing
patrickh
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DSLR: Nikon D300 Nikon D200 Nex 5N
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 300/4.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Arsat 50/1.4, Kiron 28/2, Vivitar 28/2.5, Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
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Exakta: Topcon 100/2.8(M42), 35/2.8, 58/1.8, 135/2.8, 135/2.8 (M42), Kyoei Acall 135/3.5
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, Zeiss Planar 50/1.4, Distagon 25/2.8
Hexanon: 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 40/1.8, 50/1.7, 52/1.8, 135/3.2, 135/3.5, 35-70/3.5, 200/3.5
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Biometar 80/2.8, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Minolta SR: 28/2.8, 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 45/2, 50/2, 58/1.4, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, 200/3.5
RF: Industar 53/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2
Enlarg: Rodagon 50/5,6, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, Vario 44-52/4, 150/5.6 180/5.6 El Nikkor 50/2,8,63/2.8,75/4, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, 135/5.6 Schneider 60/5.6, 80/5.6, 80/4S,100/5.6S,105/5.6,135/5.6, 135/5.6S, 150/5.6S, Leica 95/4 |
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F16SUNSHINE
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 5486
Location: Left Coast
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:43 am Post subject: |
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F16SUNSHINE wrote:
I love it! The step by step dismantling is great fun.
Very environmental of you as well as crafty  A perfect example of re-use before recycle. What will you do with the body? To bad it is inop, it looks just like a Contax ST which was a great Kyocera built camera of the same era. BTW I just received a chipped C/Y to eos adapter from roxsen. I have read in this forum that some people had trouble with them. My adapter arrived in 4 days from HK to Seattle and works perfectly. Maybe this means they have improved recently. |
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Richard_D
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2378
Location: Faversham Kent UK
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Richard_D wrote:
Thanks for that - great photo story
That was a great price.
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Richard
The interesting bit:
Nikkors: 20mm f2.8 AIS, 24mm f2.8 AIS, 28mm f2.8 AIS, 35mm f2 AIS, 50mm f1.4 AI, 50mm f1.48AI, 50m f2 AI,
55mm f3.5 AI'd, 105mm f4 AI, 135mm f2.8 AI'd, 135mm f3.5 AI'd, 200mm f4 AI'd .
Nikon E Series: 100mm f2.8 .
Soviet Nikon Mount: Zenitar 16mm f2.8, Arsat/arax/photex 85mm T&S f2.8 .
Other: Asahi Super Takumar 55 mm f2 (M42) ,Tamron 300mm f5.6 SP, Tamron 500mm f8 SP.
DSLR: Nikon D700. 35mm SLRsNikon FE, Pentax S1a.
TLR: Rolliecord II.
Sub-Minature: Pentax Auto 110, 18mm f2.8, 24mm f2.8, 50mm f2.8.
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 29545
Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Excellent photographic reportage, Flor! And very instructional.
And I must say, impressively huge piece of lens!! My Makro-Planar disappears in the comparison.
The ring flash sounds like the perfect tool to use for macros, I hope that you can make it work.
Congratulations on a great piece of hardware!
BTW love the camera also. Is the camera fully functional after the surgery?
Orio
P.S. your beloved Helios is a little filthy I would say 
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 10471
Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
| Quote: |
| It's pure genoious brain, man !! |
You are a crazy genius brain Florent, congrats
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Flor27
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 1195
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Flor27 wrote:
Thanks for all you comments !
The camera was sold as broken, vendor says "flash fire, shutter works but once a film is loaded into the camera, it is not winded and the shutter won't works no more".
This surgery is fully reversible and the camera should work without the lens, but as I have no battery yet I can't try to repair it.
About this camera, it's a fully automatic one, you cannot choose speed nor apperture... controls available are : +1/-1 EV in 1/3 step. Flash/No flash/2 lower lights of flash only; date back; ISO from DX film cardrige; ON/OFF and that's all. I guess you will understand that it will not be too much loose if I can't make it works again
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Flor27
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 1195
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Flor27 wrote:
| Orio wrote: |
| P.S. your beloved Helios is a little filthy I would say |
Oh yes, and I must take macro shots of the front lens to show you how much scratch there are... anyway, all pics appart the macro ones were done with this Helios at f/22
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montecarlo
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 1865
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:12 am Post subject: |
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montecarlo wrote:
| Flor27 wrote: |
| ...all pics appart the macro ones were done with this Helios at f/22 |
...but the Helios goes from f:2 to f:16 only (as you can see in you picture)
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Flor27
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 1195
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Flor27 wrote:
Ooops sorry, my coffee haven't yet makes me up fully... Yes you are right, f/16 shots.
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Flor27
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 1195
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Flor27 wrote:
I now remenber where I got hint about the possibility to remove the lens :
Click here to see on Ebay
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F16SUNSHINE
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 5486
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Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 6549
Location: Ireland
Expire: 2013-12-27
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Farside wrote:
Wow - excellent piece of kit and nicely done.
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Flor27
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 1195
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Flor27 wrote:
Update : in order to mount this lens on EOS body with a C/Y adapter, you will need to slim the rear's end of the black conical part as it's too protruding. It will not affect in any way the lens functionnalities and it will still possible to mount it on the Dental camera.
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patrickh
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 8551
Location: Oregon
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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patrickh wrote:
Simply amazing Flor. Good for you! and my hat is off.
patrickh
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DSLR: Nikon D300 Nikon D200 Nex 5N
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 300/4.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Arsat 50/1.4, Kiron 28/2, Vivitar 28/2.5, Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Vivitar 28/2.5, Tamron 28/2.5, Formula5 28/2.8, Mamiya 28/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Flektogon 35/2.4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Takumar 35/3.5, Curtagon 35/4, Takumar 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro, Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Takumar 50/2, Industar 50/3.5, Sears 55/1.4, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Takumar 105/2.8, Steinheil macro 105/4.5, Tamron 135/2.5, Jupiter 135/4, CZ 135/4, Steinheil Culminar 135/4,5, Jupiter 135/3.5, Takumar 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, CZ 135/2.8, Taika 135/3.5, Takumar 150/4, Jupiter 200/4, Takumar 200/4
Exakta: Topcon 100/2.8(M42), 35/2.8, 58/1.8, 135/2.8, 135/2.8 (M42), Kyoei Acall 135/3.5
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, Zeiss Planar 50/1.4, Distagon 25/2.8
Hexanon: 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 40/1.8, 50/1.7, 52/1.8, 135/3.2, 135/3.5, 35-70/3.5, 200/3.5
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Biometar 80/2.8, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Minolta SR: 28/2.8, 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 45/2, 50/2, 58/1.4, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, 200/3.5
RF: Industar 53/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2
Enlarg: Rodagon 50/5,6, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, Vario 44-52/4, 150/5.6 180/5.6 El Nikkor 50/2,8,63/2.8,75/4, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, 135/5.6 Schneider 60/5.6, 80/5.6, 80/4S,100/5.6S,105/5.6,135/5.6, 135/5.6S, 150/5.6S, Leica 95/4 |
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Nelson
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 618
Location: close to Paris, France
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Nelson wrote:
Excellent !
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Helios 44/2
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Tamron 24mm f2.5 01B, 300mm f5.6 670Au, 75 250, 300mm f5.6 SP 54B, 500mm f8 SP 55B, SP 70 210 3.5, SP 60 300
my MF lenses
EF 50 1.8 I, EF 100macro f2.8, EF 70-200 F4 L is, EFS 17-55 f2.8 is, Sigma 10-20 EX, 18-50 2.8 EX, 300 f4 hsm, 400 5.6 hsm |
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Flor27
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 1195
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Flor27 wrote:
It's like a game: sometime, you see something that you think having already seen in the past but can't remember when and where... and then you are lucky - or not.
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Ballu
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 912
Location: Columbus, OH. USofA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Ballu wrote:
Where is the aperture ring... seems like always open condition (once dismantled)...
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http://balyanpage.blogspot.com/ |
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Nelson
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 618
Location: close to Paris, France
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Nelson wrote:
some news ?
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TAIR 3S
Helios 44/2
Meyer Optik Orestegor 200mm f4 Orestegor 300mm f4
Tamron 24mm f2.5 01B, 300mm f5.6 670Au, 75 250, 300mm f5.6 SP 54B, 500mm f8 SP 55B, SP 70 210 3.5, SP 60 300
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EF 50 1.8 I, EF 100macro f2.8, EF 70-200 F4 L is, EFS 17-55 f2.8 is, Sigma 10-20 EX, 18-50 2.8 EX, 300 f4 hsm, 400 5.6 hsm |
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ChrisLilley
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 1767
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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ChrisLilley wrote:
"No user serviceable parts"
"Oh rly?" screw prise wrench pop
So this lens is somewhat similar to the medical nikkor 120mm f/4?
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don’t. Key: Ai-P, Ai, Ai'ed, AiS
Camera: Nikon D90, D40, DK-21M eyepiece, ML-3 remote MF lenses: Nikkor 20mm f/4 K, AI'ed | N.K. Nikkor-N 24mm f/2.8 | Nikkor-N.C 24mm f/2.8 | Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AiS late model | Арсенал (Arsenal) Мир-24Н (Mir-24N) 35mm f/2 | Cosina Voigtländer Ultron SL II 40mm f/2.0 | Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AiS | Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 Ai | ЛЗОС (LZOS) Юпитер-9 (Jupiter-9) 85mm f/2 | Cosina Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 90mm f/3.5 SL | Nikkor-P 105mm f/2.5 pre-Ai, Ai'ed | Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/4 | Schneider Kreuznach Componon 105mm f/5.6 | Nikkor 135mm f/2.8, Ai'ed 1976 model | Nikkor 180mm f/2.8 ED AiS | Арсенал (Arsenal) ТЕЛЕАР-Н (Telear-n) 200mm f/3.5 | Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 Ai (full equipment list) |
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Flor27
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 1195
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Flor27 wrote:
Hi all,
Aperture is electronicaly activated by the body, as on Canon EOS lenses, so it stays full open otherwise. Also for the built-in flashes.
This job will not be started soon, I have too many other things to do prior this one, but here is the way I will try to hack it on spare time :
- connect the lens to the camera
- connect some oscilloscope on the wires
- take a picture
- write down the timeline of those two wire
- repeat for the other wires you didn't analyse
- try with other film sensitivity to see what's change
- try with other flash setting
- try to guess what each wire do, and how.
- simulate the camera body with home made electronics to have a fully working lens
What a job !
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 10471
Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
| Florent wrote: |
| try to guess what each wire do, and how |
Wow Florent! You are a hacker
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Flor27
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 1195
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Flor27 wrote:
| poilu wrote: |
| Florent wrote: |
| try to guess what each wire do, and how |
Wow Florent! You are a hacker |
I have studying electronic prior to working in IT, but it will not garantee any succes
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Ballu
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 912
Location: Columbus, OH. USofA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:18 am Post subject: |
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Ballu wrote:
| Flor27 wrote: |
| Update : in order to mount this lens on EOS body with a C/Y adapter, you will need to slim the rear's end of the black conical part as it's too protruding. It will not affect in any way the lens functionnalities and it will still possible to mount it on the Dental camera. |
But how do you control the aperture of this lens.. I am not seeing any aperture ring. I think, in latter models, the aperture control was from electronic control from camera...
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http://balyanpage.blogspot.com/ |
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Flor27
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 1195
Location: Paris, France
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: |
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Flor27 wrote:
| Ballu wrote: |
| But how do you control the aperture of this lens.. I am not seeing any aperture ring. I think, in latter models, the aperture control was from electronic control from camera... |
That what I have said, yes. In order to control the aperture, you need to reverse engineering the functionality of each wire that connect the lens to the body.
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