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What is the best 25mm or 28mm manual lens for landscapes?
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jamaeolus wrote:
I queried the repair expert at Zeiss Ikon Contax repair site and the gentleman said that lens suffered from aberrent lens element issues and I should not waste my time on my copy.

Unfortunately the few remaining people who can repair such old gear often are simply unwilling to do certain repairs although they could do it. They have a finite amount of time and simply reject repair orders they don't deem "worthwhile" with doubtful reasons.


PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
Antoine wrote:
I would strongly advise against the Canon nFD 24 mm f 2.8. I bought it initially but it has plastic bearing who degraded over the years. ...


D1N0 wrote:
The earlier Canon FD lenses were full metal. in nFD more plastics were introduced. It really depends on how (much) the lens was used. A lot of copy variation.


Antoine specifically was talking about the plastice bearings used in Canon FD/nFD lenses ..

1) with IF (internal focusing)
2) with RF (rear focusing)
3) with floating elements
4) with zooms

They often (usually?) have decayed, causing easily visible "wobble" for the elements concerned. Of course this can degrade the original performance of a lens quite drastically - which really is a pity since nFD lenses were among the best when they were introduced.

S


Does the rubber bearing issue applies to breach lock FD 's as well? Despite being IF RD Floating or zooms?


PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
lumens pixel wrote:


Does the rubber bearing issue apply to breach lock FD's as well? Despite being IF RD Floating or zooms?


Yes, the breach lock FD lenses are affected as well. Among the zoom lenses I've repaired, the push-pull designs did not have rubber bearing problems since Canon used rollers made of plastic instead of brass with rubber.

I've had three samples of the nFD 24 mm f/2,8 and all had problems with the focussing (one roller) and the "floating elements " (three rollers) that could be fixed quite easily. Once repaired, the lens proved to be as sharp as my Nikkor Ais and the Olympus Zuiko OM 24 mm f/2,8 lenses (with less vignetting compared to the Zuiko) at infinity throughout the frame and sharper than my SMC Pentax 24 mm f/2,8 sample (with Sony A7/A7R full-frame bodies).


PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
The earlier Canon FD lenses were full metal. in nFD more plastics were introduced. It really depends on how (much) the lens was used. A lot of copy variation.


When they came out, Canon NEW FD lenses were considered by many as being less reliable than FD (breach lock) lenses but meanwhile, they've proven to be as durable as the older lenses. The fact that they used plastics (on the outside mainly and all over for the last few lenses made after 1985) didn't change the outcome - they didn't use plastic helicoids and the main and crucial parts of the lens were still made of metal.

Apart from the bearing woes, Canon lenses don't have any particular weakness. They are just as reliable as lenses of other major brands.


PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
lumens pixel wrote:

Yes. this why I sold my 50 1,4, 28 2,0, 35 2,0, 24 2,8 and bought the lowlies 28 2,8, 35 2,8, 50 1,8.

Problem: it seems the nFD 28 2,8 is not completely immune to the problem...


The nFD 28 mm f/2,8 does not have rubber bearings so there shouldn't be any problems...


PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alsatian2017 wrote:
lumens pixel wrote:

Yes. this why I sold my 50 1,4, 28 2,0, 35 2,0, 24 2,8 and bought the lowlies 28 2,8, 35 2,8, 50 1,8.

Problem: it seems the nFD 28 2,8 is not completely immune to the problem...


The nFD 28 mm f/2,8 does not have rubber bearings so there shouldn't be any problems...


That was also my expectation. I did not disassemble the lens so i cannot say much about that but I have noticed that in the process of focusing in magnified view quite often I would see the image "drop" in the viewfinder and a shift in the focal plane. I thought that was in relation with the bearings but the issue might be different. Note that when I focus properly and that shift does not happen the lens is quite sharp.


PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
lumens pixel wrote:
Alsatian2017 wrote:
lumens pixel wrote:

Yes. this why I sold my 50 1,4, 28 2,0, 35 2,0, 24 2,8 and bought the lowlies 28 2,8, 35 2,8, 50 1,8.

Problem: it seems the nFD 28 2,8 is not completely immune to the problem...


The nFD 28 mm f/2,8 does not have rubber bearings so there shouldn't be any problems...


That was also my expectation. I did not disassemble the lens so i cannot say much about that but I have noticed that in the process of focusing in magnified view quite often I would see the image "drop" in the viewfinder and a shift in the focal plane. I thought that was in relation with the bearings but the issue might be different. Note that when I focus properly and that shift does not happen the lens is quite sharp.


OK, so I guess you've got some loose screws connecting the barrel to the helicoid. I guess it might be a trivial thing to fix it.

P.S Since I've got a partly disassembled copy of the nFD 28 2,8 lying around I've had a look at it. In the back of the lens, there's a metal key connecting the inner barrel and the helicoid to the outer barrel. It's held by one single screw which creates some play when it's not fastened...


PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="Alsatian2017"]
D1N0 wrote:
The earlier Canon FD lenses were full metal. in nFD more plastics were introduced. It really depends on how (much) the lens was used. A lot of copy variation.


When they came out, Canon NEW FD lenses were considered by many as being less reliable than FD (breach lock) lenses but meanwhile, they've proven to be as durable as the older lenses. The fact that they used plastics (on the outside mainly and all over for the last few lenses made after 1985) didn't change the outcome - they didn't use plastic helicoids and the main and crucial parts of the lens were still made of metal.

Alsatian2017 wrote:
Apart from the bearing woes, Canon lenses don't have any particular weakness.

True, as far as I know.

Alsatian2017 wrote:
They are just as reliable as lenses of other major brands.

Not true. Minolta MC/MD/AF lenses for instance (a brand I know particularly well) do not have bearing woes, and therefore they are much more reliable.

S


PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:

Not true. Minolta MC/MD/AF lenses for instance (a brand I know particularly well) do not have bearing woes, and therefore they are much more reliable.

S


Well, I've mentioned the bearing problems Wink One thing I noticed is that Minolta MC/MD lenses are more often than FD/nFD lenses affected by fungus (I still have nearly forty Canon lenses and about twenty Minolta lenses and have bought, repaired, and sold about the same number so I guess I'm not completely biased...). What I really appreciate about Minolta MC/MD lenses is the sheer simplicity of the aperture mechanism and the smoothness of the MC lenses helicoids.


PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alsatian2017 wrote:
One thing I noticed is that Minolta MC/MD lenses are more often than FD/nFD lenses affected by fungus (I still have nearly forty Canon lenses and about twenty Minolta lenses and have bought, repaired, and sold about the same number so I guess I'm not completely biased...).


Interesting - out of about 250 Minolta lenses I have only one was affected by fungus (a MC-X 1.2/58mm), so I wasn't aware of that problem. Out of my about 75 Canon FL/FD/nFD lenses at least three were affeted by fungus. Thanks for sharing your observations!

S


PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
Alsatian2017 wrote:
One thing I noticed is that Minolta MC/MD lenses are more often than FD/nFD lenses affected by fungus (I still have nearly forty Canon lenses and about twenty Minolta lenses and have bought, repaired, and sold about the same number so I guess I'm not completely biased...).


Interesting - out of about 250 Minolta lenses I have only one was affected by fungus (a MC-X 1.2/58mm), so I wasn't aware of that problem. Out of my about 75 Canon FL/FD/nFD lenses at least three were affeted by fungus. Thanks for sharing your observations!

S


Well, I guess you buy your lenses mainly in Switzerland (good climatic and storage conditions and thoughtful and meticulous people) while I buy them mainly in France where a lot of lenses end up in humid basements. I guess the Swiss just dispose of musty old lenses while the French don't mind selling them on Wink


PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alsatian2017 wrote:
lumens pixel wrote:
Alsatian2017 wrote:
lumens pixel wrote:

Yes. this why I sold my 50 1,4, 28 2,0, 35 2,0, 24 2,8 and bought the lowlies 28 2,8, 35 2,8, 50 1,8.

Problem: it seems the nFD 28 2,8 is not completely immune to the problem...


The nFD 28 mm f/2,8 does not have rubber bearings so there shouldn't be any problems...


That was also my expectation. I did not disassemble the lens so i cannot say much about that but I have noticed that in the process of focusing in magnified view quite often I would see the image "drop" in the viewfinder and a shift in the focal plane. I thought that was in relation with the bearings but the issue might be different. Note that when I focus properly and that shift does not happen the lens is quite sharp.


OK, so I guess you've got some loose screws connecting the barrel to the helicoid. I guess it might be a trivial thing to fix it.

P.S Since I've got a partly disassembled copy of the nFD 28 2,8 lying around I've had a look at it. In the back of the lens, there's a metal key connecting the inner barrel and the helicoid to the outer barrel. It's held by one single screw which creates some play when it's not fastened...


Great info. Any pic of that screw?


PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
lumens pixel wrote:
Alsatian2017 wrote:
lumens pixel wrote:
Alsatian2017 wrote:
lumens pixel wrote:

Yes. this why I sold my 50 1,4, 28 2,0, 35 2,0, 24 2,8 and bought the lowlies 28 2,8, 35 2,8, 50 1,8.

Problem: it seems the nFD 28 2,8 is not completely immune to the problem...


The nFD 28 mm f/2,8 does not have rubber bearings so there shouldn't be any problems...


That was also my expectation. I did not disassemble the lens so i cannot say much about that but I have noticed that in the process of focusing in magnified view quite often I would see the image "drop" in the viewfinder and a shift in the focal plane. I thought that was in relation with the bearings but the issue might be different. Note that when I focus properly and that shift does not happen the lens is quite sharp.


OK, so I guess you've got some loose screws connecting the barrel to the helicoid. I guess it might be a trivial thing to fix it.

P.S Since I've got a partly disassembled copy of the nFD 28 2,8 lying around I've had a look at it. In the back of the lens, there's a metal key connecting the inner barrel and the helicoid to the outer barrel. It's held by one single screw which creates some play when it's not fastened...


Great info. Any pic of that screw?


You are right. Just checked the lens again. It is a matter of connection of inner barrel and helicoid. But where is that screw?


PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
lumens pixel wrote:


You are right. Just checked the lens again. It is a matter of connection of inner barrel and helicoid. But where is that screw?


Here it is (the one in the brass key on the top ). You have to remove the connectors on the back (three screws on the side) and the aperture ring in order to gain access to that part.



If that doesn't improve things, you will have to fasten the six screws under the name ring - in order to pop that out, you might use the tip of a small screwdriver or a toothpick...

Salutations d'Alsace

Volker


PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Merci!

By any chance I have the same problem with the 35 70 f4. Would it be the same fix or the bearings?


PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
lumens pixel wrote:
Merci!

By any chance, I have the same problem with the 35 70 f4. Would it be the same fix or the bearings?


In my opinion, the nFD 35-70 mm f/4 is the worst among them all - not in terms of image quality (as good as or better than the MD 35-70 mm f/3.5) but in terms of build quality. You'll hardly find one which doesn't have problems with the bearings and when attempting to fix them, you'll most likely ruin the screws holding them because the sticky black goo of the rubber bearings keeps them from moving. So I wouldn't buy one unless it costs less than 10 € and repairing them has an uncertain outcome.

I've managed to fix one of them while moving another five into the spares box...


PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jopenmx wrote:
One oppinion more for SMC Pentax K 28 f/3,5 . A really wonderful lens , that seems specially designed for landscapes. I own two copies , and it has been my most used lens since the analogue times. The " Hollywood " K 28 f/2, is of course a class on its own. But it´s more heavy , and wonderful in close upand also landscape. But I normally prefer to carry in my bag the K 28 f/3,5 . It is a warranty, and results in my DSLr´s , concerning landscape pictures are similar to obtained with the K 28 f/2.


Hi: I just ordered the K 28/3.5 so really looking forward to using it!

-Charles


PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jamaeolus wrote:
I had a copy of the contax zeiss distagon 28 2.8 that was very soft, even stopped down. I assumed it had been mistreated but could find no evidence of someone opening it. I queried the repair expert at Zeiss Ikon Contax repair site and the gentleman said that lens suffered from aberrent lens element issues and I should not waste my time on my copy. I like the Konica 24mm 2.8 and the Minolta MD 24mm 2.8.


I shall research these two latter lenses. Thank you!


PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alsatian2017 wrote:
lumens pixel wrote:


You are right. Just checked the lens again. It is a matter of connection of inner barrel and helicoid. But where is that screw?


Here it is (the one in the brass key on the top ). You have to remove the connectors on the back (three screws on the side) and the aperture ring in order to gain access to that part.



If that doesn't improve things, you will have to fasten the six screws under the name ring - in order to pop that out, you might use the tip of a small screwdriver or a toothpick...

Salutations d'Alsace

Volker


Well well... I spent two nights (untill 3 in the morning) tinkering with my nFD 28.

Disassembly is quite straightforward. I tried to tighten the screw indicated but there was no need. The problem was putting back the mess altogether.

You need to do it once in a lifetime to experiment true frustration about a somewhat futile matter since nothing critical is at stake.

I ended up watching some videos on you tube and mikeno62 made my day (my night) on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q18bIxtAbcE so many thanks to him. His channel is full of remarkable videos.

Once I understood the alignment issues when closing the rear part of the lens everything became quite simpler.

I also opened the nameplate of the lens to tighten the front screws but they were tight as well.

So I guess this is the nature of the lens to have minimal play and one should watch carefully in his viewfinder if he is on the path of the quest of ultimate sharpness because this lens is sharp.

Oh by the way my lens is declicked now, not that I wanted to, but this is a common fate when you get close to an aperture mecanism, you have to loose something. Since I have never been found of the aperture control haptics of nFD lenses this is not an issue for me.

So thank you Alsatian for putting me on the path of this new experiment. I always feel as a more competent tinkerer when I succeed putting back a lens altogether (almost) and I do recommend this lens for its photographic quality.

One more point: nFD lenses ARE robust. My copy survived many stupid actions in the disassembly reassembly process and it still works perfectly. And yes, internal mechanism is metal and in pretty good shape after all these years.


PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
lumens pixel wrote:
Alsatian2017 wrote:
lumens pixel wrote:


You are right. Just checked the lens again. It is a matter of connection of inner barrel and helicoid. But where is that screw?


Here it is (the one in the brass key on the top ). You have to remove the connectors on the back (three screws on the side) and the aperture ring in order to gain access to that part.



If that doesn't improve things, you will have to fasten the six screws under the name ring - in order to pop that out, you might use the tip of a small screwdriver or a toothpick...

Salutations d'Alsace

Volker




Well well... I spent two nights (untill 3 in the morning) tinkering with my nFD 28.

Disassembly is quite straightforward. I tried to tighten the screw indicated but there was no need. The problem was putting back the mess altogether.

You need to do it once in a lifetime to experiment true frustration about a somewhat futile matter since nothing critical is at stake.

I ended up watching some videos on you tube and mikeno62 made my day (my night) on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q18bIxtAbcE so many thanks to him. His channel is full of remarkable videos.

Once I understood the alignment issues when closing the rear part of the lens everything became quite simpler.

I also opened the nameplate of the lens to tighten the front screws but they were tight as well.

So I guess this is the nature of the lens to have minimal play and one should watch carefully in his viewfinder if he is on the path of the quest of ultimate sharpness because this lens is sharp.

Oh by the way my lens is declicked now, not that I wanted to, but this is a common fate when you get close to an aperture mecanism, you have to loose something. Since I have never been found of the aperture control haptics of nFD lenses this is not an issue for me.

So thank you Alsatian for putting me on the path of this new experiment. I always feel as a more competent tinkerer when I succeed putting back a lens altogether (almost) and I do recommend this lens for its photographic quality.

One more point: nFD lenses ARE robust. My copy survived many stupid actions in the disassembly reassembly process and it still works perfectly. And yes, internal mechanism is metal and in pretty good shape after all these years.



Sorry about your lack of success. You might be right that the lens was made with "built-in tolerances" but maybe the brass key in your lens is just slightly deformed which would explain the play. In fact, I've felt about the same frustration lately while trying to fix the wobble in the barrel of my Minolta MD 50 mm f/2 lens which is brilliant in optical terms but pretty bad in terms of built quality. Same problem as yours actually, I've done everything to fasten the screws and to regrease the (plastic) helicoid but it only got slightly better since at MFD the front barrel still has some play. I feel that the move to reduce the weight and size of the nFD and MD III lenses at the beginning of the 80s (Olympus is to blame mainly) just degraded the solid feel of these lenses. But as you mentioned, they keep staying pretty solid after all.


PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is fine and I am not unhappy at all. I have gained some experience and I know what to do to obtain the results I like.

With these little compromises you have top quality lenses at an incredible weight and price combination. No modern lens could compete by these standards.

Here is what I mean, pic taken today with my fantastic declicked lens (F4,5 nonetheless):

Eglise Stella Matutina | Saint-Cloud by lumens pixel, sur Flickr

By the way my MDIII 50 2,0 has no play at all.


PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
lumens pixel wrote:

By the way my MDIII 50 2,0 has no play at all.

That's pretty much my experiene with all Minolta MC/MD lenses.

S


PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
lumens pixel wrote:

By the way my MDIII 50 2,0 has no play at all.

That's pretty much my experiene with all Minolta MC/MD lenses.

S


Well, that's pretty much my experience with all my Minolta MC/MD lenses as well but that sample of MD 50 mm f/2 - the exception proves the rule...


PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I used to live 150 yards away from this church Lumens


PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
So nice to read! Are you far away now?
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