Kiev-4: incredibly beautiful and complicated

[Orio]

I just received the camera: WHAT A BEAUTY!

But... I don't understand a thing with it. Can not figure it out!

Help!

[montecarlo]

http://www.russianplaza.com/Kiev%20man/kiev4man.htm
http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/manuals/cameras/k4/k4.htm
http://mikebutkus.com/chinon/russian/kiev-4/kieva-a-splash.htm

[Orio]

OK, after the panic attack, I think I am beginning to figure it out

The infinity lock on the lens was the hardest thing to figure out. Second was how to set the shutter time. Third was to understand why at times the range finder seemd to work and at other times it did seem not to. Until I found out that the difference was made by my finger covering the range finder window

[Orio]

Thanks Cosmin.

[montecarlo]

Be careful with the shutter time and winding/cocking the shutter issue - like in the case of FED , Zorki and other older russian cameras !!!!!!
ALWAYS wind/cock the shutter and after choose the shutter time !!!!!!!

[montecarlo]

Weird... I just read the last link this "The shutter speed can be set with the shutter either cocked or fired. However, it is recommended that the shutter speed be changed with the shutter cocked."
In other cases (Zenit 3M, Zorki, FED...) the book says to cock first the shutter and not just recommends it.

[Orio]

[Orio]

My camera seems to have an improper takeup spool
I can not make the film fit in the slit

[Orio]

A photo that shows the problem: as you can see, the film leader is both larger than the slit, and placed in a lower position - while the slit is narrow and placed exactly in the middle of the spool.

[Farside]

Just cut a bit off the long side to make a centre tongue. Istr having to do that with some other cam years ago - might even have been one of them.

[Orio]

[F16SUNSHINE]

You can use a piece of tape just as the Kodak uses to attach the film to the spool. I had a missing take-up in an old leica IIIf body. The solution was a spool from a empty cartridge like you have. Before leaving the house I would put a piece of masking tape around the outside of each plastic film canister I carried for the day. It was the perfect solution as you don't have to try and save the tape each time. With the Leica the tape had an added benifit. The film leader did not pop of the spool during loading as Leicas load funky in my view. Here is an ebay link for an "original" spool for Kiev etc. It looks fragile and expensive. Try the tape trick. It works well. Also Rollei IR film has a spool with a proper slot. Some other films may also have a full height slot on the spool. Maybe check with your developing lab. They usually have a bin filled with empty spools to re-cycle.

Click here to see on Ebay

[Orio]

Wow, super helpful reply Andy. Thanks!
Tape eh? I will try.

Fed Zorki Kiev, aren't they different cameras?
Maybe I'll try and get this spool. I don't like the idea of going on with temporary remedies.

Also perhaps worth trying the Rollei infrared film. Maybe it costs less.

[Orio]

I found an IR film Rollei for sale in Italy.
Click here to see on Ebay
If you are sure the spool is OK I will get it - it will be cheaper than the Ukrain option.

[F16SUNSHINE]

Here I took a quick pic of the tape trick. As you can see I put the tape all the way around the spool so the leader is gripped from both sides. You would just fold over the tape end I left open and it is ready to load. The other spool is the type that you should try and find. This one is from my Yashica YF in the picture. Leica used the same one. Keep an eye out at camera shops and shows. To be honest the tape is more secure for the Leica style loading with a back door as pictured. For the Contax/Kiev this all metal spool is great. The full removable back on the Contax/Kiev is superior to Leica door in my view.

[F16SUNSHINE]

[Orio]

ok thanks

[Jieffe]

I may be late but have you seen this ? : Click here to see on Ebay

[Orio]

Thanks JF, looks nice but it's a whole tank, I wonder if you can take out of it just the spool...

[rick_oleson]

You can make a very good takeup spool for the Kiev out of a used film cassette and some epoxy cement. Here's how it looks (this works as well as the factory spool):



Second, on the issue of setting shutter speeds before or after cocking: The Kiev has NOTHING in common with the FED or Zorkis beyond the language of the instruction manual; it is based on the Contax, not the Leica, and there is not one screw in common between these two designs. Having used and repaired the Contax and Kiev for over 20 years now, I cannot think of any reason why it would make a difference whether you set the speed before or after cocking the shutter if the camera is in good working order. In some cases in a worn camera it will be better to set the speed BEFORE cocking the shutter, at least if you're changing from a slower to a faster speed setting. This is because the curtains move as you change speeds, and if the safety catch on the top curtain is worn or bent that curtain could begin to travel as you move the dial from a slower to a faster speed setting. The concerns about the sequence in the FED and Zorki relate to the rotating shutter speed dial and the slow speed escapement assembly in those cameras... which do not exist in the Kiev.

And third, as you have already noticed, the controls of the Kiev are different from other cameras such as Leicas or Zorkis: the wide-spaced RF windows, the focusing wheel and the location of the shutter release button require a very different way of holding the camera. This is clearly described in the Contax II owner's manual and in publications such as the Contax Way, and I'll be happy to send you a scan of some of that stuff if you like. In short, you leave your left hand on the camera body rather than the lens barrel (at least when using a 50mm lens); place your right index finger flat across the wind knob and your middle finger tip rests on the focusing wheel and infinity lock button; grip the right end of the camera body with your remaining 2 fingers. What you will discover is that your finger never blocks the rangefinder, you can focus rapidly with the focusing wheel using your middle finger, you get a very steady release of the shutter by pressing down on the button, not with the tip of your finger but with the bottom of the first knuckle, and you can freely switch from horizontal to vertical composition without changing your grip.

A great deal of criticism of the Contax/Kiev's handling comes from people who do not understand its design and are not using it properly.

[Orio]

Thanks Rick. I think I have figured out everything now. It's not difficult, as you say.
At the present moment the camera handling is still slowing me down, but like all things it's a matter of getting used to. After all, it's not much different from the way I hold Praktica reflex cameras (shooting with middle finger). Here it's only a bit more extreme as it requires the stretching of the middle finger towards the focusing wheel (is this the part that I am not used to yet).

About the take up spool, I am a disaster at hand works, and I don't have this X-acto saw (actually I don't even know what it is, as I don't know what is epoxy cement).

[Orio]

Andy for some reason I did not see your photo yesterday. Thanks for setting it up! How come that the tape does not stick to itself if you place it at home before going out?

One thing I am not understanding: a take up spool for leica/zorki will work equally well for Contax, or it needs to be different?

[rick_oleson]

Hi Orio:

Email me with your mailing address and I'll send you a spool.

The FED/Zorki spool will not work in the Kiev. It was designed to allow you to fit film canisters in both ends so that you could wind from one canister into the other and take the film out without rewinding it.

The spool that you have in your camera is a spool out of a used film canister. You can use it as it is, if you tape the end of the film to the spool with adhesive tape. It is a bit more convenient, though, if you have a slot in the spool to hold the film.

My email address is rick_oleson@yahoo.com

[Orio]

[F16SUNSHINE]