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Metabones speedbooster
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:13 am    Post subject: Metabones speedbooster Reply with quote
Have anyone tryed the Metabones speedbooster.? Look very smart.
It will be nice to see some pic with it.

http://www.metabones.com/

Jeppe


PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It hasn't been on the market yet; I put in an order, should receive one around end of the month Smile


PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
great, I hope they will also release the speed booster to transform a pentax Q in full frame Laughing


PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There's already a thread about this: http://forum.mflenses.com/metabones-speed-booster-t56002.html


PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I wonder if Metabones is reading this forum Smile
A discussion we had a while ago:
http://forum.mflenses.com/focal-length-reducer-wide-angle-converter-t54425,highlight,%2Bfocal+%2Breducer.html

Focal reducers are generally able to enhance the effective performance of lenses, if they are made from high quality optics.
But as teleconverters they should work best for teles - how they would perform with non-teles might differ from lens to lens.

poilu wrote:
great, I hope they will also release the speed booster to transform a pentax Q in full frame Laughing

+1
Or maybe even into medium format Twisted Evil


PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm not sure about that one. Need to see real-life-results first.
It's too expensive for a "toy". Wink


PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
We're living in exciting times. Using MF-lenses on a Nex has been inspiring, retrieving the originally intended DOF and FOV will be amazing!


PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I remain sceptical until real world results.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'll watch this with interest... I'm a *very* hard man to make part with my money, but if I can do M42>EF>E-Mount, then I *will* buy this. I don't care about the EF-E Mount controls, I do care about the original FoV, and the extra stop of speed would be... well, very nice indeed, especially on some of the faster 50mm's.

I'll keep a very keen eye on this to see what happens.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
NewStuff wrote:
I'll watch this with interest... I'm a *very* hard man to make part with my money, but if I can do M42>EF>E-Mount, then I *will* buy this. I don't care about the EF-E Mount controls, I do care about the original FoV, and the extra stop of speed would be... well, very nice indeed, especially on some of the faster 50mm's.

I'll keep a very keen eye on this to see what happens.

Exactly my feeling, just hoping for other mounts than EF...


PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, Chinese entrepreneurs will be more than happy to sell us a new and improved copy of every adapter we already have Smile


PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
harry tibi wrote:
Well, Chinese entrepreneurs will be more than happy to sell us a new and improved copy of every adapter we already have Smile


That's the thing though, who in their right mind would want to stick a cheap piece of glass behind an expensive lens.

For example, suppose I have a Zeiss lens, if I'm going to introduce any other glass into the optical pathway then it has to be Zeiss quality otherwise I might as well just use a cheap crappy lens.

If Zeiss or Schneider for example started making something like this, then it would interest me, but no way would I want one unless it was of the same quality as the lenses I use.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
harry tibi wrote:
Well, Chinese entrepreneurs will be more than happy to sell us a new and improved copy of every adapter we already have Smile


That's the thing though, who in their right mind would want to stick a cheap piece of glass behind an expensive lens.

For example, suppose I have a Zeiss lens, if I'm going to introduce any other glass into the optical pathway then it has to be Zeiss quality otherwise I might as well just use a cheap crappy lens.

If Zeiss or Schneider for example started making something like this, then it would interest me, but no way would I want one unless it was of the same quality as the lenses I use.


I consider the Speedboster an interim solution until a full frame NEX is available.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Indeed, but while the FF will give you the FoV back, it won't gain you a "stop" of speed. This is almost as good as the adaptor giving you back the FoV, and the adaptor is probably going to be several hundred £'s cheaper than a FF NEX.

Don't get me wrong, much as I want a FF NEX, I would rather have this, and would rather have straight M42>E-Mount with the Glass in it, gain a stop and the original FoV, and not have to pay for fancy AF stuff that I won't use... I'll ask, but I doubt it will happen. If it does, the saving's are getting raided Shocked


PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I see little benefit to the extra speed to be honest, and I'm yet to be convinced that there isn't a detrimental effect on the IQ. So FF for me.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
NewStuff wrote:
Indeed, but while the FF will give you the FoV back, it won't gain you a "stop" of speed.


I still can't imagine how that is supposed to work in the first place. Why does "more light" get to the sensor because of that extra glass?
Isn't it just the resulting effects of the wider angle that is meant here?


PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
I still can't imagine how that is supposed to work in the first place. Why does "more light" get to the sensor because of that extra glass?
Isn't it just the resulting effects of the wider angle that is meant here?


Think of it like light being cast above a magnifying glass, the smaller the area that the light is being focused upon, the brighter that light will appear. it is the same quantity of light, it is just being focused on a smaller area.

what I want to see is LPM statistics with same MP sensor, both FF and crop. i.e. a 5DC and something with similar MP. i.e. NEX-FS700

-Ben


PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
NewStuff wrote:
Indeed, but while the FF will give you the FoV back, it won't gain you a "stop" of speed.


I still can't imagine how that is supposed to work in the first place. Why does "more light" get to the sensor because of that extra glass?
Isn't it just the resulting effects of the wider angle that is meant here?


f-number = ratio of focal length to diameter of the entrance pupil

F-stops are for focal ratio, T-stops are for transmission.

For more detail see
http://thephotoletariat.com/f-stops-vs-t-stops-explained/

Last edited by Bille on Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:53 pm; edited 4 times in total


PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bille wrote:
.....

f-number = ratio of focal length to diameter of the entrance pupil

When a teleconverter is attached, focal length increases and the ratio to lens diameter decreases.

Increases ?

Quote:
The Speedboster now does the opposite. Focal length is reduced, the ratio to lens diameter increases.

Decreases ?


PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
sichko wrote:
Bille wrote:
.....

f-number = ratio of focal length to diameter of the entrance pupil

When a teleconverter is attached, focal length increases and the ratio to lens diameter decreases.

Increases ?

Quote:
The Speedboster now does the opposite. Focal length is reduced, the ratio to lens diameter increases.

Decreases ?


Thanks, corrected. Wink


PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bille wrote:


f-number = ratio of focal length to diameter of the entrance pupil

When a teleconverter is attached, focal length increases and the ratio to lens diameter increases (larger f-number). That way a 135mm f2 lens becomes a ~200mm f2.8 lens with a teleconverter.

The Speedboster now does the opposite. Focal length is reduced, the ratio to lens diameter decreases (lower f-number).



Guys, I know a lot about photography and optics, you don't need to teach me the basics. Wink
(Look at the number of my posts, if you don't know me.)

Bille wrote:



However, the amount of glass in the optical path does have an effect on true speed, even though arithmetically f-stop changes.

" F-stops are for focal ratio, T-stops are for transmission."


That's what I meant.

Now, how does that go together with Ben's magnifying glass theory?

In theory, we might think of winning a stop, but in real life as well?


PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's the crux of it Carsten - how this thing performs in real life.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
In theory, we might think of winning a stop, but in real life as well?


In real life the Speed Booster (SB) has 4 elements in 4 groups. See :

www.metabones.com/images/metabones/Speed%20Booster%20White%20Paper.pdf

Assuming that good coatings are used with a light loss of 0.5% at each surface, total transmission = (0.995)^8 = 96%. The 4% loss is equivalent to 0.06 T-stops.

There is a thread about the SB at nikongear.com : http://nikongear.com/live/index.php?/topic/47313-speed-up-your-lens/

Brian Caldwell talks about the SB and confirms the use of high quality coatings with transmission at each surface >99.5 %.

The metabones pdf explains how the SB works and shows how it reduces the image circle - which relates to Ben's magnifying glass analogy.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
That's the crux of it Carsten - how this thing performs in real life.

The nikongear.com link given earlier gives a link to a Leica forum where the Speed Booster can be seen in action - Leica R on Nex.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I see little benefit to the extra speed to be honest, and I'm yet to be convinced that there isn't a detrimental effect on the IQ. So FF for me.


If You consider that You would be likely to use it on a number of lenses, the cost doesn't seem bad then, especially compared to buying 1 or 2 truly fast lenses (<f1.4). Assuming the IQ trade off isn't that great (and looking around for reviews, it doesn't seem to be), than apart from the initial cost, I can't see anything to grumble about. Well, maybe that it isn't M42 or PK to NEX, but I dare say that the latter will materialise if enough people ask. As it is, I will probably get the EF version if M42 or PK isn't out by then, and use a decent M24>EF adaptor on it.

Really, it seems to give You the intended Fov, A stop of light *and* AF (If You're into that sort of deviancy!). I appreciate that the "free stop" of light is pretty much a by-product of "concentrating" the image circle, but hey, it works.
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