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aleksanderpolo
Joined: 24 Jan 2010 Posts: 684
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject: 85mm f1.4-1.8 experience |
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aleksanderpolo wrote:
I am finally looking for a 85mm f1.4-1.8 lens, I am considering some and would like to hear some first hand comparison/experience. I will be using it to shoot people at head and shoulder distance to mid distance from wide open to around f2, with or without ND filter. Here are the lens I am considering and thinking about:
1. Samyang 85/1.4: How is its microcontrast/edge definition and flare resistance? The photozone test show it doesn't improve much stopped down?
2. C/Y Planar 85/1.4: Is it too contrasty wide open to f2? Does it not perform well at the distance I am working with?
3. Nikkor 85/1.8 Ai: Had it once, thought it was a little heavy for a f1.8 lens, didn't shoot much with it and sold it, maybe I need to revisit it?
4. Nikkor 85/1.4 AiS: Too heavy?
5. Canon FD 85/1.2 L: Way too heavy?
6. Pentax 85/1.8: Is it good? How about the 77/1.8 limited?
7. Pentax 85/1.4: Really rare and it has huge purple fringing/CA?
7. Canon FD 85/1.8: Very cheap, is it good?
Some of the lens that I like:
C-Sonnar, CV 35/1.2 II
Some of the lens that I don't like for this application:
C/Y 50/1.4 & ZM 50/2 (too contrasty), CV 50/1.5 (very high resolution, but doesn't have the pop in say the C-Sonnar to my eyes)
Any thoughts or comments? Thanks. |
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 6622 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
I'd go for the nFD followed by the Planar. _________________ Graham - Moderator
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Where is Pancolar from Carl Zeiss Jena and Biotar 75mm ? I rate both higher than most in this list , I have no experience with Canon. Rest of it I did try. Pancolar , Biotar beat them all. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I like the Jupiter-9 2/85 for portraits, wide open it has a slight softness and a slightly lower contrast (both improve a lot at 2. and also has some glow, it is the glow combined with the lower contrast and slight softness that gives it a very nice character that suits portraits perfectly, the glow makes skin look much nicer. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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aleksanderpolo
Joined: 24 Jan 2010 Posts: 684
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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aleksanderpolo wrote:
@Omar, I saw your sample and they are mighty impressive. I am sort of hoping to get a similar look with clear edge definition without the weight of the 85/1.2, do you have experience with the Planar and Samyang and do they draw similarly to the 85/1.2?
@Graham, are you talking about the 85/1.2? Or is the 85/1.8 that good?
@Attila, I am sorta scared of all the talk about the build quality/variation of the Jena lens, and how are their flare resistance? |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Pancolar 80 has superb coating, I didn't try it against sun , that is not a portrait situation to me ...
Biotar 75mm coating is less good due ages.
Quality is not an issue on them , they have quality built. not worst than western products.
If an eastern lens fetch higher price than most western products , sign of quality for sure.
I am very happy with Jupiter-9 too and still inexpensive.
Basically you can't go wrong with any 85mm lens all good, difference is not much between them. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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aleksanderpolo
Joined: 24 Jan 2010 Posts: 684
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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aleksanderpolo wrote:
@iangreenhalgh1: Thanks, I did consider the Jupiter as I like the Sonnar look. But I have the C/Y Sonnar already and I think I prefer a more modern drawing style (i.e. like the C-Sonnar more than the Nikkor H-C)
@Attila: Thanks for the reply about the Pancolar, and wow, it IS more expensive than the Planar! When did that happen or was it always more expensive than Planar?! |
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aleksanderpolo
Joined: 24 Jan 2010 Posts: 684
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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aleksanderpolo wrote:
Lovely example, Omar. I keep hearing that the Planar is not very good at close distance, but I don't know how close "close distance" is. So at your working distance in those shots, do you see any problem compared to the 1.2? |
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aleksanderpolo
Joined: 24 Jan 2010 Posts: 684
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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aleksanderpolo wrote:
Thank you, and thanks for your lovely samples too. |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
aleksanderpolo wrote: |
@Attila: Thanks for the reply about the Pancolar, and wow, it IS more expensive than the Planar! When did that happen or was it always more expensive than Planar?! |
In Eastern Europe it was very expensive lens vs salaries, once socialism collapsed for a few years before digital era. It was affordable and lot less than Planar. People did start to use it and compare it, seems Pancolar did won. I still have both and love both. My opinion always very subjective , but I like Pancolar smaller than Planar a lot and may better may not matter of taste , but surely we talk about two top lenses. I told before I respect same an old Jupiter-9 RF lens than Pancolar or Planar with a little contrast fix just same good than they are.
J9 RF with big scratches on front cost was 20 EUR only, from processed pictures nobody can say it's IQ much less than $$$ lenses.
This is not made with scratched one , I have 5 copies I think in all possible variants.
http://forum.mflenses.com/jupiter-9-8-5cm-f2-0-1955-red-p-leica-screw-t51723,highlight,%2Bjupiter+%2B9.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/pancolar-80-carl-zeiss-jena-m42-sony-nex-t42840,highlight,%2Bpancolar+%2B80.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/pancolar-80-sony-nex-carl-zeiss-jena-t38946,highlight,%2Bpancolar+%2B80.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/i-love-my-planar-85-1-4-t40255,highlight,%2Bplanar+%2B85.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/biotar-75-t45793,highlight,%2Bbiotar+%2B75.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/carl-zeiss-jena-biotar-1-5-75-m42-post-war-t37774,highlight,%2Bbiotar+%2B75.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/carl-zeiss-jena-biotar-7-5cm-f1-5-pre-war-t51614,highlight,%2Bbiotar.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/carl-zeiss-jena-biotar-7-5cm-f1-5-pre-war-t51614,highlight,%2Bbiotar.html
etc
Visonar cine projector lens as evidence don't need to take $$$ lenses.
http://forum.mflenses.com/visionar-109mm-f1-6-cine-projector-lens-on-nex-t51470,highlight,%2Bvisionar.html _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
I suggest you to start browsing the "best of lenses" gallery.
You will see some (hopefully) selected images there that although made in different conditions and by different photographers
still can give you an approximate idea of how the lenses render the images. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Orio wrote: |
I suggest you to start browsing the "best of lenses" gallery.
You will see some (hopefully) selected images there that although made in different conditions and by different photographers
still can give you an approximate idea of how the lenses render the images. |
+1 _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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aleksanderpolo
Joined: 24 Jan 2010 Posts: 684
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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aleksanderpolo wrote:
I have been doing that too, that's how I narrowed it down to the list. But I found that the PP style of the person making the image can have more impact on the final image than the lens itself. So I thought asking people with first hand experience with multiple lens might help eliminate this factor. I know most of the lens are more than capable, but some of them just give you more pleasure when you open the raw. I tried to push the files of FL55/1.2 and can never get the look I can easily get with the C-Sonnar, for example. |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Most important and very cheap solution is PP and auto contrast, color, sharpness set is quick and smart. Camera process images anyway,
to buy $$$ lenses and cameras and ignore PP is not too smart. With same lens images looks entirely different on different cameras, PP can help to get quality images on inexpensive cameras.
Have to decide what is important final image or tools, to me final image and I really not care how it was done. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 6622 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
The Planar is fantastic at close range, not sure where you got that idea. I suspect that it's got better coating than the Biotar and Pancolar as well. It really is a cracking lens and my favourite 85mm by a mile. The Samyang is also excellent but has less contrast and character.
http://forum.mflenses.com/i-love-my-planar-85-1-4-t40255.html _________________ Graham - Moderator
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
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kyonthinh
Joined: 30 Mar 2012 Posts: 222 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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kyonthinh wrote:
How about Rokkor MC 85mm 1.7 or MD 85 2.0? I think it is not so bad. |
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aoleg
Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 1387 Location: Berlin, DE
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: 85mm f1.4-1.8 experience |
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aoleg wrote:
aleksanderpolo wrote: |
1. Samyang 85/1.4: How is its microcontrast/edge definition and flare resistance? The photozone test show it doesn't improve much stopped down?
2. C/Y Planar 85/1.4: Is it too contrasty wide open to f2? Does it not perform well at the distance I am working with?
3. Nikkor 85/1.8 Ai: Had it once, thought it was a little heavy for a f1.8 lens, didn't shoot much with it and sold it, maybe I need to revisit it?
4. Nikkor 85/1.4 AiS: Too heavy?
6. Pentax 85/1.8: Is it good? How about the 77/1.8 limited?
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Have a look here: http://www.prime35.com/85mm-portrait-lenses-compared/
As to your list, my findings are:
1. The Samyang has low contrast and low micro-contrast. This was not to my liking. The bokeh is definitely smooth though, good flare resistance and very good sharpness even wide open.
2. The Planar is great in all respects. NOT too contrasty at 1.4, but has good contrast from f/2 down. Works fine at all distances.
3. The Nikkor 1.8 is very nice, gives vintage rendering and is very sharp/contrasty when stopped down.
4. The 1.4 version is a bit hefty, bit its creamy rendering and excellent performance will pay for the extra weight you have to carry.
6. The Pentax 85/1.8 is great, but I didn't find it much more interesting than the Nikkor 85/1.8. The Pentax is way more expensive though. And if you have the money to buy the 77 Ltd, by all means stop asking and go buy and use that lens! It's an optical marel. _________________ List of lenses |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: 85mm f1.4-1.8 experience |
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woodrim wrote:
aoleg wrote: |
As to your list, my findings are:
1. The Samyang has low contrast and low micro-contrast. This was not to my liking. The bokeh is definitely smooth though, good flare resistance and very good sharpness even wide open. |
Really? I've seen many pictures from that lens in its various brands and was always impressed. I'm not so much questioning your experience as just expressing surprise. Maybe I'll never understand what exactly in a lens' it is that creates the 3-D pop, but I thought micro contrast was a factor. That is one thing I have observed from the Samyang - pop. Somewhere in the MF forum is a comparison of the Samyang and Planar if my memory serves, and the differences were not that great, but the price certainly is.
I've got the Hexanon 85/1.8 and while I haven't assessed it properly yet, I don't see it as competition to the Planar and Samyang, but maybe the others? _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 6622 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
I've tested the Planar and Samyang indoors and they are both very sharp, even from wide open. Outdoors though the Samyang loses contrast and the Planar is better. That said, the Samyang is incredible value for money and better than many older 85s, which probably command a higher fee in the used lens market. _________________ Graham - Moderator
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
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yinyangbt
Joined: 08 Oct 2010 Posts: 1973 Location: Romania
Expire: 2012-12-27
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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yinyangbt wrote:
I can tell about the Canon FDn 85/1.8 : good. Very good if not excelent quality/price ratio . If you want some bigger files to juge for yourself , PM me .
No PP at all. Portrait style or standard style setting on NEX 3 f 2.8 or 4 ,if I remember well
_________________ Cheers , Teo
http://photo.net/photodb/member-photos?user_id=5778915 |
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ramiller500
Joined: 20 Nov 2007 Posts: 124 Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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ramiller500 wrote:
Try this, too:
http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/lens/fl/data/19-85/fl_85_18.html
This was its US patent:
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT3066575 _________________ Sincerely,
Bob Miller |
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aleksanderpolo
Joined: 24 Jan 2010 Posts: 684
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: 85mm f1.4-1.8 experience |
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aleksanderpolo wrote:
Thank you for your helpful comments and the link.
1. Ya, that's what I fear...
2. Looks like I will need to try the Planar for 1.4
3-4. I don't know why I didn't bond with the Nikkor 1.8 the first time around, maybe I should try it again. I think I will skip the 1.4 and try the planar instead. Both the Nikkor 85/1.4 and L 85/1.2 look intimidating
6. I am itching towards the 77/1.8 too, but I've heard (and seen samples) of its more pronounced purple fringing from f1.8-f2, which is what makes me dislike lens like the CV 50/1.5. So, is it very bad compared to 85/1.8 K?
And o wow the Pancolor, if the price is not that high... (thanks Attila for the link, I think the Biotar is not my cup of tea though)
Thanks.
aoleg wrote: |
Have a look here: http://www.prime35.com/85mm-portrait-lenses-compared/
As to your list, my findings are:
1. The Samyang has low contrast and low micro-contrast. This was not to my liking. The bokeh is definitely smooth though, good flare resistance and very good sharpness even wide open.
2. The Planar is great in all respects. NOT too contrasty at 1.4, but has good contrast from f/2 down. Works fine at all distances.
3. The Nikkor 1.8 is very nice, gives vintage rendering and is very sharp/contrasty when stopped down.
4. The 1.4 version is a bit hefty, bit its creamy rendering and excellent performance will pay for the extra weight you have to carry.
6. The Pentax 85/1.8 is great, but I didn't find it much more interesting than the Nikkor 85/1.8. The Pentax is way more expensive though. And if you have the money to buy the 77 Ltd, by all means stop asking and go buy and use that lens! It's an optical marel. |
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mfkita
Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 222
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject: nikkor clarification..... |
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mfkita wrote:
There is no 85/1.8 AI Nikkor....
There are a few different versions of the 85/1.8, and some availability of those 1.8 lenses with the Nikon AI conversion aperture ring, like the 1.8 K on the left below....and some that were simply converted with a notch cut into the rear of the aperture ring.
There is the 85/2 AIS Nikkor....much more compact than the 1.8...I got the 85/2 for the Nikon F...I liked the lighter more compact lens...but when I went to Canon digitalSLR (30D) I came to like the heft of the earlier 1.8 version...
Now as for those 85/1.8 versions....
The models marked H and H.C are the original silver and black versions...the "C" meaning that that lens has multicoating...
There is also the 1.8 K model which is the modernized black clad version, with the rubber focusing barrel....
The K has a bit more contrast and brightness than the H (about 1/3 an F-stop)...I don't know how the H.C compares...
As for recommendations....I liked all the 85s I had...the 1.8 H, the 85/2 and the 1.8 K I now have....
Here's a 100% crop @ 5.6 with the 85/1.8 H version...
_________________ I favor the simple shot...and uncomplicated technology that won't distract me from seeing it...
NIKON D610, Canon 30D/450D/s90/A570is: Canon 35/2, 50/1.8 MKI, 18-55IS, 28-105/3.5-4.5, 70-210/3.5-4.5; MF Nikkors 50/2K, 50/1.4AIS, 60/2.8 Micro, 85/1.8-K (AI'd), 135/2.8K, 135/2.8Q.C, 180/2.8ED, 200/4Q (AI-cut), 200/4AIS, 300/4.5-H (AI'd), Olympus 24/2.8, Vivitar 28/2, Vivitar S1 70-210/3.5 and S1 28-90;Tamron sp90/2.5; (and 28-85 AF nikkor), 35mm Nikon F, FM, FE2/MD12 drive |
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Minolfan
Joined: 30 Dec 2008 Posts: 3438 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Minolfan wrote:
mfkita wrote: |
Here's a 100% crop @ 5.6 with the 85/1.8 H version...
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UGLY! |
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aoleg
Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 1387 Location: Berlin, DE
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: 85mm f1.4-1.8 experience |
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aoleg wrote:
woodrim wrote: |
aoleg wrote: |
As to your list, my findings are:
1. The Samyang has low contrast and low micro-contrast. This was not to my liking. The bokeh is definitely smooth though, good flare resistance and very good sharpness even wide open. |
Really? I've seen many pictures from that lens in its various brands and was always impressed.
...
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Well, try the Samyang and the Zeiss side by side. It's easy to see the difference in contrast and micro-constrast between the two lenses. If comparing the old Nikkor 85/1.8 with the modern Samyang, the differences will be much less striking - although the old Nikkor will be sharper and more contrasty when stopped down (after all, it was designed to be at its sharpest at mid apertures, while the Samyang appears to be a one-trick pony - optimized for highest wide open performance at mid distances). I am not saying whether this is a bad thing or not - after all, many photographers do prefer a somewhat muted contrast (one can always boost it in the post... or so it seems), and most will buy the Samyang for its 1.4 aperture and not for its super-sharpness at 5.6-8. But to address your question - yes, the contrast is lower than with other 85mm's. _________________ List of lenses |
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