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Contemplating High End Macro Lenses- Advice Welcome
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Contemplating High End Macro Lenses- Advice Welcome Reply with quote

I just upgraded from a Canon 30D to a 60D and am contemplating upgrading to at least one new macro lens.

I use the older manual focus Nikkor 55/2.8 (+ M2 tube) and 105/2.8 and have had good results. Since upgrading to the 60D my success rate re: focus seems to be lower with both lenses. I've mostly overcome this by simply making myself work harder at it! Surprised

I do almost all macro work hand-held.
Here's some of my macro work:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/majorblack/

When I saw that Canon made a 100/2.8 L with IS, I started thinking...
and then I saw the Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 100mm f/2!

Such a decision.

Then there's the Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 50mm f/2!

The money bit:
Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 100/2: $1843
Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 50/2: $1283
Canon 100/2.8 IS: $979
There's also the same Canon 100mm lens w/o IS: $559 and I could add their ring flash (never have dome macro w/flash but it would eliminate the need for IS) for another $500.

Right now, I'm leaning toward either the Canon 100mm with IS or the Zeiss 50/2. But I'd eventually want an extension tube for it. Does Zeiss make one for that lens? Probably another $400?

Any advice welcome!


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forget expensive macro lenses, use a below+ enlarger lens+ proper lighting or/and reverese mount 50mm lens like Pancolar.
It will be good as than expensive ones or even better for fraction of cost.

Made with Vivitar 55.....

http://forum.mflenses.com/am-i-too-monomanic-another-bunch-of-macro-fly-shots-t27684,highlight,%2Bdiy+%2Bmacro.html

Proper lighting lot more important than lens.

http://forum.mflenses.com/toiletspider-with-the-vivitar-55mm-f2-8-11-macro-t27188,highlight,%2Bdiy+%2Bmacro.html

http://forum.mflenses.com/yellow-dung-fly-vivitar-55-2-8-11-macro-and-macro-diffuser-t27227,highlight,%2Bdiy+%2Bmacro.html


Finally in case of you if I have extra 1000 USD for a lens I sell my crop cameras and buy a full frame 5D2 any lens will be better on it I think .


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atilla, those are nice. Thanks.

Do you find my lighting not good?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/majorblack/

Regarding buying "a full frame 5D2 any lens will be better on it I think", I was under the impression that FF cameras tend to be more challenging for lenses.

Regardless, I would have to buy new lenses for an 5D2 ad my EF lenses will not work on it, right?


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kram wrote:
Atilla, those are nice. Thanks.

Do you find my lighting not good?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/majorblack/

Regarding buying "a full frame 5D2 any lens will be better on it I think", I was under the impression that FF cameras tend to be more challenging for lenses.

Regardless, I would have to buy new lenses for an 5D2 ad my EF lenses will not work on it, right?



I did see first two pages, nice images with good light , none of them macro like included links by me. I think for real macro need different light setup than usual and that is most important in whole process.

FF cameras more challenging right , with a simple 200 USD cost mirror surgery , no more challange all lenses will works. I have no clue about EF lenses, hopefully somebody will able to answer it.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds like a good excuse to find a bokina Smile

bout 275 seems to be the going rate, and there aren't many better macros. In addition the thing is fantastic at infinity, and the bokeh....well you know.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Attila, thanks for the info.

Several images on my page are certainly as macro as the spider and fly image but it's hard to tell that. Some subjects are maybe 5-7mm in size.

Here's one:


This bee is certainly macro (uncropped):


I'm not really interested in insects though. They were just there. If I were to go for bug macros I would certainly use flash. Anyone know of a reasonably priced ring flash?


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Attila wrote:
.
.
.
I have no clue about EF lenses, hopefully somebody will able to answer it.


I've had decent results using the older Canon 100mm f/2.8 macro lens with Zerene Stacker:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/s58y/5783982195/sizes/o/in/photostream/

For many of the newer Canon DSLRs, the EFSC (Electronic First Shutter Curtain) feature means that, for static subjects, you can take longer exposures and avoid flash when shooting with live view active -- see discussions over on photomacrography.net

For true macro shots (closer to 1:1), I'm investigating the Olympus 80mm bellows lens, supposedly optimized for 1:1. The other Olympus bellows lenses seem to be highly regarded, too. For higher magnification, folks over at photomacrography.net suggest microscope objectives -- usually Nikon CF series or maybe Mitutoyo (metallurgical types).


Last edited by s58y on Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@s58y thanks. That site has some interesting things on it.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kram wrote:
Atilla, those are nice. Thanks.

Do you find my lighting not good?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/majorblack/

Regarding buying "a full frame 5D2 any lens will be better on it I think", I was under the impression that FF cameras tend to be more challenging for lenses.

Regardless, I would have to buy new lenses for an 5D2 ad my EF lenses will not work on it, right?


Wrong. The 5DII takes EF mount lenses. But if you need to persuade your nearest and dearest that you need some L glass delete this paragraph and show her the next sentence.

Canon's 5DII will only work with hideously expensive L glass; using anything less is likely to invalidate your car insurance/cause your teeth to drop out/your hair turn grey and drop out/your bum to grow so big that choir boys will all point and laugh Laughing


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kram wrote:
I use the older manual focus Nikkor 55/2.8 (+ M2 tube) and 105/2.8 and have had good results. Since upgrading to the 60D my success rate re: focus seems to be lower with both lenses

those lens should be quite good
you should look about the bad success rate, no reason to have diff from 30D
I guess you matte screen is not at the right distance
try those lens in liveview, you should get nice results
you can also put your 60D on tripod and compare pt of focus between the liveview to your screen matte


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tikkathree wrote:
Kram wrote:
Atilla, those are nice. Thanks.

Regardless, I would have to buy new lenses for an 5D2 ad my EF lenses will not work on it, right?


Wrong. The 5DII takes EF mount lenses. But if you need to persuade your nearest and dearest that you need some L glass delete this paragraph and show her the next sentence.

Canon's 5DII will only work with hideously expensive L glass; using anything less is likely to invalidate your car insurance/cause your teeth to drop out/your hair turn grey and drop out/your bum to grow so big that choir boys will all point and laugh Laughing


Haha! Too funny! This may help my cause!


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are looking for top wide-open performance and faster lenses, there are no other options than Voigtländer APO Lanthar 2.5/125 or Leica APO-Macro-Elmarit 2.8/100.
If you can stop-down to f5.6 or more for best performance (and with macro this is usual practice), then most modern macro lenses are fine. From f5.6 I can hardly tell differences between AME and latest AF version of Tamron 2.8/90.
Older macros are very sharp stopped down too, but they usually slightly lack contrast and color fidelity in comparison to newer lenses.
And Canon EF macro 2.8/100 non-L is said to be very good lens too.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poilu, thanks, very good advice. Will do.

Brunner, I'm afraid to even look at the prices on those lenses! You make a good point though. With the Canon 100/2.8 IS L, under my worst normal shooting conditions, it should get me easily to f/5.6.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even without having any sort of experience in macro lenses I would say that if you are going to spend the big bucks then spend it on a lens with a nice focal length, just in case someday you find the need to shoot critters that get scared very easily because that would be most difficult with 55mm that probably will focus as close as what, 25cm? Some bugs will not let you get closer than 1m maybe.

While you are at it, if money is not an issue get something with native 1:1 ratio.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm liking results I see from (enlarger lens) Nikkor EL 80/5.6 reversed on tubes or bellows. Examples: http://forum.mflenses.com/weird-plants-ii-t41267.html

I have 52B Tamron 90/2.8 & the Macro-Takumars. I think Tamron has less contrast and seems a little sharper, while Taks have better color and high contrast. Faster Tamron is easier to focus with low light. I suspect at higher magnifications Taks may be sharper, but that is unconfirmed.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CA, very good advice, thank you. I would like the 1:1 option and my 55mm and extension work well. It's the longer focal length which I need the IS for.

visualopsins, you got some very good results from the EL lens.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

your macros I find stunning, simply amazing that you did them handheld! Can't really imagine how but by many trials and error. For consistent results, and deeper dof if so desired, a tripod and focusing with live view certainly is the way to go


PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kuuan wrote:
your macros I find stunning, simply amazing that you did them handheld! Can't really imagine how but by many trials and error. For consistent results, and deeper dof if so desired, a tripod and focusing with live view certainly is the way to go


kuuan, thanks very much. I pride myself on being good at hand-holding. It's harder than most think. One day I will certainly try live view and get on a tripod.

Perhaps I'll try stacking too?


PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had moderate success with stacking hand held live. Your work is much better by far ! I find it very difficult to hand hold and get accurate focus consistently Sad



PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martyn, thanks man. That fly is juicy!


PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kram wrote:
Martyn, thanks man. That fly is juicy!
Have to say that what it was sitting on wasn't!!!! This was stacked using CombineZP - recommended!


PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the flower macros too but assuming you used very small apertures for deeper DOF, it is a mistery to me how you took them hand held =)

Oh, and I would definitively get that 100mm Makro-Planar, it must rock so badly!


PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CA, I rarely get to f/5.6 on my 55 and 100/2.8's. I like shallow DOF. I suppose a few were at f/8 or f/11 but that's rare for me.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want high end, get a bellows with tilt shift (minolta auto bellows or maybe the Nikon PB4?) and a 1-2 GOOD lenses for macro. This could be a reversed enlarger for super close stuff, and then something longer for macro shots where you need more working distahce. The great thing about a bellows is you get to choose your magnification AND use whatever lens you want......and in addition, you can do tilt/shift for the proper DOF (if your bellows supports this).


PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kawasakiguy37 wrote:
If you want high end, get a bellows with tilt shift (minolta auto bellows or maybe the Nikon PB4?) and a 1-2 GOOD lenses for macro. This could be a reversed enlarger for super close stuff, and then something longer for macro shots where you need more working distahce. The great thing about a bellows is you get to choose your magnification AND use whatever lens you want......and in addition, you can do tilt/shift for the proper DOF (if your bellows supports this).


Very good point regarding a tilt/shift bellows! I'll have to look into this, thanks.
Very Happy