M42 macro or tubes?

[Volunteer]

I ordered some cheap macro tubes which I intend to use with my current lenses for quasi-macro photography. What I would like to know is - is there any non-expensive m42 macro lens that you had experience with and how does it differ from macro tubes?
I guess one of the differences would be wider DOF?

[ChromaticAberration]

One of the differences would definetly be price-wise since tubes are the cheapest option but I am also interested in this matter since I am not sure which are the major differences that justify the investment on a macro-dedicated lens.

I also do not believe there are any inexpensive macro-dedicated lenses out there, maybe the best option would be a nice wide-angle with close focus capabilities (some of them get as close as 20cm I believe) which gives you a near 1:2 ratio.

The alternative I am currently making use of, is getting and Industar 50-2 and put in on those tubes. I have to say though that my first tests aren't that impressive, sharpness wise:

[eddieitman]

Well i use my Macro Tubes quite a lot and i am always very impressed with them, I now have a Cosinon 28mm F2.8 that focuses at 0'40 with the extension tubes i can make it focus at just a few MM from the subject no idea what type of magnification it would give so far all very sharp, but these have been objects around the house. hope to do some and post for you soon.
I will do this when my Mir 1B arrives as i want to test 28mm versus 37mm to see what is better.

[lauge]

Extension tubes is stretching the performance of the lens, I have successfully used the Takumar S-M-C 50/1.4 which in some situation equals the Kiron 105/2.8 Macro in sharpness. Cheapest alternative is close focusing lenses like the Industar 61, though not true macro it does the job for flowers etc.

Let me know if you need examples.

[Volunteer]

I don't need examples - you've said it all. Thanks all, I guess I won't be needing a macro lens. I have been using close up lenses, they do have really nice magnification, but sharpness is a donwside. Tubes should do better as they do not have an additional optical element.

[Cistron]

Not sure if there is too much difference in performance between an dedicated macro lens and extension tubes. Surely, a macro-lens also focuses to infinity and is therefore handier to use, but it is also heavier. Reduction of the effective aperture by extension should be equivalent for tubes and macro-lens, no?

[iangreenhalgh1]

Macro lenses are expensive, but a cheaper and just as effective option is to buy a quality enlarger lens like a Rodenstock Rogonar or Schneider Componon and mount it on some bellows, many of these enlarger lenses are also used for macro work in the pro world.

[revers]

Jupiter-8 on 25mm tube.

[Attila]

[Attila]

[ChromaticAberration]

[Attila]

Quiet common in photography you can get same or even better result with inexpensive stuff + proper technic than 1000 USD+ gear.

A reverse mount 50mm lens Pancolar for example give you extreme magnification with excellent sharpness. A stacking macro + ring flash + any lens produce better looking images than an expensive macro lens etc.

[indianadinos]

[patrickh]

Been preaching enlarging lenses for some time now. I have many of the classic macros lenses, but find myself enjoying the results of such as el-nikkor 80/5.6, Componon-S 100/5.6 just as much and the quality is at least equal. Lot of examples in the forum.


patrickh

[RioRico]

I now have three damn fine 1:1 camera macro lenses, as well as various mount-reversal adapters so I can go into a lens-reversal frenzy. But most of my close shooting now involves cheap enlarger lenses (EL's) on extension (bellows and tubes).

Just how cheap? A few months ago on eBay I won a lot of four 75mm EL's (Rodenstock Omegaron, Schneider Componar, Wollensak Raptar, Vivitar LU) for US$10 shipped, total. And other great stuff for not much more. (Apos, Eastman, Ilex, Komura, Leitz, Novoflex, Steinheil, etc.) My 35-50-75-90-105mm ELs work nicely, close. I also do a lot of non-macro shooting with longer EL's on extension.

NOTE: Most EL's are not coated. They are not designed for light to shine INTO the front of the lens! So, use a hood.

A basic rule of optics: A non-reversed lens cannot focus closer than its focal length, which is also the distance of greatest magnification. Put as much extension on a 50mm lens as possible, for more and more magnification, and you still can't focus closer than 50mm.

The corollary: Short lenses have close working distances, while longer lenses allow (or force) you to work further away. You can get 2:1 with a 35mm EL with only 105mm of extension,. Going 2:1 with a 150mm EL requires a LOT (450mm) of extension! That may be wise; ask me about shooting closeups of live uncaged rattlesnakes from a safe distance.

But I digress. EL's of 50-75mm are cheap and plentiful. You may want to put a short EL on tubes rather than bellows, as the bellows rail may keep you away from your subject. Some shooters also prefer to reverse the EL. I haven't tried that yet. (I'm away from home for awhile and haven't the right adapter rings with me.)

Oh yeah, why EL's? Because of their edge-to-edge flatfield sharpness, as well as the low cost. The same optics in a camera macro lens require a not-cheap long+precise focusing mechanism. Bellows and tubes just bypass that expense. Thus you get high-grade optics at a low low price. I like that.

[martinsmith99]

I have macro lenses, enlarger lenses, bellows, tubes and helicoids; my favourite combo is a Helios 44-2 on tubes. The whole setup was under 10gbp.

[ChromaticAberration]

[IAZA]

I have 2 macro lens. 1 tube
if you see my avatar, was made with zenitar 50/1,7 & tube

[RioRico]

[lauge]

[ChromaticAberration]

[RioRico]

[poilu]

check those
http://forum.mflenses.com/helios-44-2-on-5dii-t26136.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/industar-50-2-on-5dii-t26168.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/meyer-trioplan-on-5dii-t26199.html

my 16 euros kit


this bellow and industar

[cooltouch]

Okay, RioRico finally hit on the point I was gonna make: flat-field sharpness. Enlarger lenses must have a flat field or else they're pretty worthless as enlarger lenses, aren't they. They also must be critically sharp since nobody wants a lens that's gonna lose sharpness from the negative during the printing process.

One of the main reasons why macro lenses tend to be expensive is because they too are flat-field optics. They have to be because frequently they are used for flat field work, like copying documents, for example.

And that is the biggest difference between using a macro lens and a non-macro lens with tubes. The lens with tubes will have curvature of field that you'll have to deal with, which may or may not be big deal.

Also, reversed wide angle lenses typically provide a flatter field than non-reversed, and are a great and cheap way to get into high-magnification photography. The biggest problem I see with going this route, however, is you cannot directly calculate the magnification of your reverse-mounted lens. But it is easy enough to determine.

Here is a great page that has a good variety of useful information for macro photography. Click on "Reversed Lens" to find out how the author does it.

http://peterforsell.com/macro.html

Looks like a pretty nice site, but I don't speak/read Finnish.

Regarding bellows, I've found them to be exceedingly frustrating to use on objects that are not sitting on my copy stand, for example, without the use of a focusing stage. And just in case you don't know what a focusing stage is, it's a device that goes between the bellows and the tripod and gives you the ability to move your entire bellows rig forward/backward/left/right. A real nice tool. They're not all that easy to find anymore, and when you do find one, they typically go for quite a bit. Fortunately, there's a Chinese eBay seller who offers ones made out of real metal for about $40. I bought one from him, and I am satisfied with it. There is some backlash to the rack gearing, but that's no big deal. Here's the one I bought:

Click here to see on Ebay

However, I found the exact same one here for less:

http://www.dinodirect.com/rail-plate-magnesium-alloy-macro-focus.html?cur=USD&AFFID=11&DinoDirect

[Attila]