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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 11:32 pm Post subject: Discuss this lighting scheme |
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Orio wrote:
How would you reproduce the lighting scheme of this photograph (made by Marion E. Warren) ?
I would think of a strong spotlight placed behind high at the back of the woman, a bit on her left (photo's right)
And a main softbox light in front of her, in central position, and significantly weaker than the back light.
I wonder how there are no light reflections in her pupil.
I love this lighting. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
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Laurence
Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 4809 Location: Western Washington State
Expire: 2016-06-19
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:21 am Post subject: |
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Laurence wrote:
It certainly looks as you described, Orio. This photographer shows a unique "form" and black and white images with depth. _________________
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And handled with a chain.
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Nesster
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 5883 Location: NJ, USA
Expire: 2014-02-20
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:28 am Post subject: |
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Nesster wrote:
back on hair, high on our right, further back high up front _________________ -Jussi
Camera photos
Print Photographica
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Laurence wrote: |
It certainly looks as you described, Orio. This photographer shows a unique "form" and black and white images with depth. |
Ain't that true? That Eiffel tower is magical.
I need to return to Paris. With my Contax IIa and a truck of B&W film. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Nesster wrote: |
back on hair, high on our right, further back high up front |
You mean three lights? I am not sure to understand what you mean. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008 Posts: 1480 Location: Bologna - Italy
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:53 am Post subject: |
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A G Photography wrote:
There's no softboxes in that shot, otherway you'd see different reflections in the glass. It's all hard and hot light, typical of the era btw.
You have two lights here, hair light above the girl's head pointing down and a spot from the right pointing at her hands. there's also probably another backlight (which I can't see reflected in the glasses) pointed at girl's backhead. _________________ Alessandro
My Photography Website
My Blog about Photography and Italian Cuisine
My Photostream on Flickr
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DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Pentax Spotmatic SPII, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Tessar 80/2.8, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Arsat Zodiak 30/3.5, Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
A G Photography wrote: |
There's no softboxes in that shot, otherway you'd see different reflections in the glass. It's all hard and hot light, typical of the era btw.
You have two lights here, hair light above the girl's head pointing down and a spot from the right pointing at her hands. there's also probably another backlight (which I can't see reflected in the glasses) pointed at girl's backhead. |
How about the face? It seems almost evenly lit. Would it be possible if the only frontal light was a spot placed on the right?
Of course the spot on the right would explain why no reflection in the eyes.
But how to lighten the face then? Huge reflector?
If you notice, from the breast going down, it's almost dark.
I believe there must be a lighting of some sort for the front, but I am not able to tell what. Unless it's the same vertical light that is lighting the hair... but in that case, wouldn't we see terrible shadows under the eyebrows and nose? _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 6557 Location: Ireland
Expire: 2013-12-27
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Farside wrote:
I'd say there's a fairly un-soft light on each side to top and behind her and a reflective surface in front of the camera and possibly one one the bench.
On the other hand, it could have been done very simply with two lights and a lot of dodging and burning. _________________ Dave - Moderator
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
in fact the shadow on her chest has a strange shape, that does not make sense anatomically. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Nesster
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 5883 Location: NJ, USA
Expire: 2014-02-20
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Nesster wrote:
I think the shadow is from a baffle to give a 'weird science' look.
Yes, three direct lights.
The lighting's probably a variation of the cop and the woman next to her in this guide.
_________________ -Jussi
Camera photos
Print Photographica
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008 Posts: 1480 Location: Bologna - Italy
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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A G Photography wrote:
Orio wrote: |
A G Photography wrote: |
There's no softboxes in that shot, otherway you'd see different reflections in the glass. It's all hard and hot light, typical of the era btw.
You have two lights here, hair light above the girl's head pointing down and a spot from the right pointing at her hands. there's also probably another backlight (which I can't see reflected in the glasses) pointed at girl's backhead. |
How about the face? It seems almost evenly lit. Would it be possible if the only frontal light was a spot placed on the right?
Of course the spot on the right would explain why no reflection in the eyes.
But how to lighten the face then? Huge reflector?
If you notice, from the breast going down, it's almost dark.
I believe there must be a lighting of some sort for the front, but I am not able to tell what. Unless it's the same vertical light that is lighting the hair... but in that case, wouldn't we see terrible shadows under the eyebrows and nose? |
The face is not evenly lit. There's a pretty evident reflection of the forehead caused by the spot from the right. Btw, I think the spot used it's a sort of fresnel light, very commonly used in cinema and theatre but also in still life and food (less in portrait nowadays). It is basically a circlular spot, very directional, where you can have a hard spot of light and an outer softer spot of light controlled through a focusing lens (the fresnel lens). This explain how you can have a sudden falloff of light from the breast down. Then probably there are also some reflectors in front to open the shadows. _________________ Alessandro
My Photography Website
My Blog about Photography and Italian Cuisine
My Photostream on Flickr
--------------------------------------------------------
DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Pentax Spotmatic SPII, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Tessar 80/2.8, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Arsat Zodiak 30/3.5, Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
A G Photography wrote: |
Orio wrote: |
A G Photography wrote: |
There's no softboxes in that shot, otherway you'd see different reflections in the glass. It's all hard and hot light, typical of the era btw.
You have two lights here, hair light above the girl's head pointing down and a spot from the right pointing at her hands. there's also probably another backlight (which I can't see reflected in the glasses) pointed at girl's backhead. |
How about the face? It seems almost evenly lit. Would it be possible if the only frontal light was a spot placed on the right?
Of course the spot on the right would explain why no reflection in the eyes.
But how to lighten the face then? Huge reflector?
If you notice, from the breast going down, it's almost dark.
I believe there must be a lighting of some sort for the front, but I am not able to tell what. Unless it's the same vertical light that is lighting the hair... but in that case, wouldn't we see terrible shadows under the eyebrows and nose? |
The face is not evenly lit. There's a pretty evident reflection of the forehead caused by the spot from the right. Btw, I think the spot used it's a sort of fresnel light, very commonly used in cinema and theatre but also in still life and food (less in portrait nowadays). It is basically a circlular spot, very directional, where you can have a hard spot of light and an outer softer spot of light controlled through a focusing lens (the fresnel lens). This explain how you can have a sudden falloff of light from the breast down. Then probably there are also some reflectors in front to open the shadows. |
Thanks !!
I have a lot to learn, I really enjoy all this information.
Where did you learn so much about old lighting schemes? _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008 Posts: 1480 Location: Bologna - Italy
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Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:52 am Post subject: |
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A G Photography wrote:
Orio wrote: |
A G Photography wrote: |
Orio wrote: |
A G Photography wrote: |
There's no softboxes in that shot, otherway you'd see different reflections in the glass. It's all hard and hot light, typical of the era btw.
You have two lights here, hair light above the girl's head pointing down and a spot from the right pointing at her hands. there's also probably another backlight (which I can't see reflected in the glasses) pointed at girl's backhead. |
How about the face? It seems almost evenly lit. Would it be possible if the only frontal light was a spot placed on the right?
Of course the spot on the right would explain why no reflection in the eyes.
But how to lighten the face then? Huge reflector?
If you notice, from the breast going down, it's almost dark.
I believe there must be a lighting of some sort for the front, but I am not able to tell what. Unless it's the same vertical light that is lighting the hair... but in that case, wouldn't we see terrible shadows under the eyebrows and nose? |
The face is not evenly lit. There's a pretty evident reflection of the forehead caused by the spot from the right. Btw, I think the spot used it's a sort of fresnel light, very commonly used in cinema and theatre but also in still life and food (less in portrait nowadays). It is basically a circlular spot, very directional, where you can have a hard spot of light and an outer softer spot of light controlled through a focusing lens (the fresnel lens). This explain how you can have a sudden falloff of light from the breast down. Then probably there are also some reflectors in front to open the shadows. |
Thanks !!
I have a lot to learn, I really enjoy all this information.
Where did you learn so much about old lighting schemes? |
I have a book written by an old Hollywood lightning director, John Alton. _________________ Alessandro
My Photography Website
My Blog about Photography and Italian Cuisine
My Photostream on Flickr
--------------------------------------------------------
DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Pentax Spotmatic SPII, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Tessar 80/2.8, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Arsat Zodiak 30/3.5, Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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