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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
IAZA wrote: |
this old topic comes again.
recently I bought Vega 90/2,8
it performance not far to Leitz elmarit 90/2,8 but very different price.
Why I still keep elmarit ? main reason is Leica price never go down. investment, LoL
overrated or not, like or not that's the fact. |
Leica-R is wrong investment their price level go upside down hard to sell them on high price , this was my personal experience. I could sell them easily on low price only.
I didn't earn any single cents on any of them I not suggest at all to keep Leica as an investment. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
Esox lucius wrote: |
Anyone who knows anything about lens design is aware of the tradeoff triangle - geometric distortion vs. sharpness vs. vignetting vs. aberrations |
Are you sure that's a triangle Vilhelm?
I feel encouraged by what you say about Leica lenses. I've never had enough money to spare for one, but I've always suspected there was a touch of myth about their quality and it's nice to know the truth. I guess it takes an unusually brave and honest man to admit to wasting thousands on one and risk seeing the value of his investment falling as a result. _________________ Peter - Moderator |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Interesting topic.
I think it's difficult to judge on overpriced, because it's difficult to set a price standard. What is the standard? If it's the average price of today's AF lenses, then 80% of manual focus lenses are underpriced...
Overrated...this is simpler as it has to do with "public opinion"... well I met a few overrated lenses... which does not mean "bad lenses" but "lenses that are not as good as told". One of them for me is the Leitz Summicron-R 90.
It is quite soft wide open and it reach professional quality sharpness at about f/5.6, a speed where it becomes quite useless to have a fast lens. After having tried the Elmarit-R 90, which is one stop slower, but significantly better quality wise starting from wide open, and constant throughout all apertures, I can say that it makes little sense to buy a Summicron-R 90 for 500-600 Euros when an Elmarit-R 90 last version can offer much superior quality at wide open for 350 Euros. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
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lauge
Joined: 14 Jun 2008 Posts: 101 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Expire: 2013-05-30
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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lauge wrote:
I think this comes down to who you are and what you expect from a lens. If you like Nikon and tries a Canon then the Canon lens would be overrated to you as you don't get the Nikon look.
The lens Esox lucius referes to is a good example of that, I remember once reading a discussion about the Minolta 24/2.8 that Leica also used for their R lenses, and one person wrote very pragmatic that you pay a premium for Leica but you get a Minolta lens so even though the lens is standard quality for Leica people doesn't like it because it's not 100% Leica pedigree.
Some people can look beyond this and make stunning photos with almost any lens. I have seen really great photos taken with the standard kit zoom AF lens or P&S cameras. _________________ M42:
S-M-C Takumar: 3.5/28 1.4/50 2.8/105
USSR: Industar 61L/Z
CZJ: Flektogon 2.4/35
MD:
Rokkor: 35-70/3.5
Kiron: 2.8/105 Macro
OM:
Zuiko: 50/1.8 75-150/4
Sigma: 24/2.8
Cameras:
Asahi Spotmatic F (looking for a sample with working light meter)
Olympus OM-1
Zeiss Ikon Contaflex IV
NEX 7 Sony A55 Konica Minolta Dynax 5D Minolta Dynax 7 Minolta AF 7000 |
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jjphoto
Joined: 17 Mar 2009 Posts: 414
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:52 am Post subject: |
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jjphoto wrote:
I still hold hope of a reasonably priced FF mirrorless body, or at least one closer to FF than any current offerings.
Last edited by jjphoto on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ChromaticAberration
Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 819 Location: Portugal
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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ChromaticAberration wrote:
Even though you guys already gave a good contribute to the topic I would just like to clear things up.
When I meant overrated I meant lenses which popularity is not on par with their real potential.
And as I expected I really am very impressed reading names like Pancolar, Zeiss, Helios and of course, Leica, which by the way, if a year ago someone tried do sell me a Leica M8 I would have probably refused because the name always reminds me of low-quality stuff, can't tell why really...
I can give you an example.
A CZJ 135 MC Sonnar is fetching much higher prices than any other 135 lens. However! Does it pay off in image quality to spend that extra for the Zeiss glass instead of a Mamiya, or a Vivitar, or whatever?
My personal belief is that people are paying much more for lenses that in day-to-day situations will most surely not be that much better.
Contrast for example is probably the most overrated quality of a lens since most (if not all) photographers will end up post-processing the final images, specially for contrast boosting ending up with as "contrasty" images as the most popular lenses would produce.
Don't get me wrong I love manual focus vintage/retro lenses, but as I read around the forum I see that not all photographers, amateurs or pros, enjoy the qualities of some of the so called "premium glass" but that does not stop them from getting sold for hefty sums of money. _________________ Body: Fujifilm X-E1
Landscapes: Samyang 12mm f/2 NCS CS
Macro: Vivitar Series 1 105mm Æ’/2.5
Portrait: Helios-44 58mm Æ’/2.0
Low-light: SMC Takumar 50mm Æ’/1.4
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a pнoтograpн ιѕ neιтнer тaĸen or ѕeιzed вy ғorce. ιт oғғerѕ ιтѕelғ υp. ιт ιѕ тнe pнoтo тнaт тaĸeѕ yoυ. one мυѕт noт тaĸe pнoтoѕ.†– нenrι carтιer-вreѕѕon |
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justtorchit
Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Posts: 269 Location: St. Louis, MO
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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justtorchit wrote:
Great topic! I like Big Dawg's likening of lens choice to religion and politics. A nicely illustrated parallel indeed.
I also can quite agree with Michael's comment about not having much experience far beyond the Nikon, Canon, Tamron, Pentax realm. I simply cannot afford to!
That being said, I have been extremely pleased with the results I have gotten out of my relatively modest kit (though hardly "inexpensive"). I look at the images being made all over the world each and everyday. From the journalistic work to product shots. And I find I can get just about any look or effect I need with the lenses I have (including Nikon's pro bread-and-butter lenses: AF-S 17-3/2.8, 70-200/2.8 VRII, and even the Tokina 90/2.5 which I use daily). I have just about never gotten into a situation where my lenses simply couldn't deliver.
I suppose the fact that I am using my kit day-to-day, and considering my purpose is to make imagery to which I and the client are the ultimate critics, and finally, that to date I have not found a "hole" in my camera kit, I would have to say the most overrated lenses are those which are far more expensive than the ones I already have!
Leica is certainly a name that comes to mind immediately for me when I think "price and expectation to actual potential". Though I have always appreciated their design, the M9 & company are so exponentially more expensive than what I use, they had better fly me to my destinations along with capturing the images for that kind of money!
Also, the older vivitar S1 lenses, save for the 90/2.5, seem to fetch quite high dollar despite meager performance. I definitely love their build, but their optical merit is not worth, IMHO, what they go for on the bay. But again, relative to Leica, we are talking about peanuts here ($100-200 for the viv's vs. $1000+ with Leica) _________________ David
www.davidkovaluk.com - personal website
www.instagram.com/davidkovaluk
http://makingnottaking.blogspot.com/ - photoblog |
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MoonPix
Joined: 26 May 2011 Posts: 43 Location: United States
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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MoonPix wrote:
dsadsadas
Last edited by MoonPix on Thu Apr 27, 2023 2:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:47 am Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
ChromaticAberration wrote: |
Don't get me wrong I love manual focus vintage/retro lenses, but as I read around the forum I see that not all photographers, amateurs or pros, enjoy the qualities of some of the so called "premium glass" but that does not stop them from getting sold for hefty sums of money. |
Unfortunately there are many people out there who don't share the experience, knowledge and common sense of some of our members. If only they would look here before buying! _________________ Peter - Moderator |
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cooltouch
Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:23 am Post subject: |
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cooltouch wrote:
MoonPix wrote: |
I am going to second the Canon 16-35 2.8 II L as being far to expensive for the quality of images it produces.
I purchased this lens to try. As far as image quality it is the same as the much less expensive Tamron 17-35 2.8-4.0. I was astounded when I compared the two (before returning the Canon).
I find this a lot with lenses. A name can add a lot of $$$ to a lens. Part of it is marketing and part of it is ignorance. |
Boy howdy! (which, incidentally, means +1 more or less)
Some lenses just can't live up to their reputation, while others just tend to be sleepers. Interesting your comparison with the Canon was against a Tamron. I can cite two examples, both with Tamrons, where the supposedly superior lenses did not take the day.
I guess it's been over a year ago now that I bought a Tamron 24mm f/2.5 off eBay for $40. Nobody else bid on the lens because it was mislisted. But even places like B&H don't ask more than $99 for it. And to me, even $99 I consider to be a very fair price for that lens. It isn't even an SP, just a plain old blue-box Adaptall. So after it arrived, I compared it to the only other 24mm I owned -- a 24mm f/2.8 AI-S Nikkor. The Nikkor had a very slight advantage over the Tamron when both lenses were wide open, but the Tamron actually had the Nikkor beat throughout most of the aperture range. Now, I was using a crop-body camera, so I couldn't evaluate the corners, but as far as what I was able to see, the Tamron was at least on par, if not a bit better than the Nikkor.
More recently I conducted a test using a few macro lenses, including the Legendary Vivitar 105mm f/2.5 macro. I pitted it against my Tamron 90mm f/2.5 and my Micro Nikkor 55mm f/3.5. The Tamron was obviously superior to the Vivitar in every test and the Nikkor was better in most.
So anyway, I am not necessarily inclined to buy into the hype when it comes to lenses. I'll have to see things for myself first. _________________ Michael
My Gear List: http://michaelmcbroom.com/photo/gear.html
My Gallery: http://michaelmcbroom.com/gallery3/index.php/
My Flickr Page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/11308754@N08/albums
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