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Nikon D800?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had one in hands yesterday evening. The camera is nice, seems a bit lighter than the D700, but it had a "heavy" lens ( compared to my 50mm ), it was the 17-35 AFS. Well i was told that with a 8gb card it allowed approx 100 pix in raw, when the D700 allows 300. This is quite a difference. To any Nikon user of DSLR's there will be no surprises as the menus, and buttons are similar. There's a silent position, which can be quite useful sometimes. To my surprise ISO's are 25600. VF looks slightly bigger, but i didn't noticed that much of a difference.

That said it is surely a great camera, no doubt, but to be honest i am not impressed. My photographic needs are fullfiled more than enough Very Happy


PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ManualFocus-G wrote:
Canon, I really hope the 5D III is in the same league!

What I read in a french photo magazine is encouraging. They had the opportunity to have both 5D MkIII and Nikon D800 in hand.
5D MkIII was a pre-production body but what they saw was very good.
5D MkII had far more pixels than D700, but less speed. It was more still oriented.
5D MkIII is 22 MP, speed is improved a lot with 6 pictures per second, standard iso goes to 25600. D800 is 36 MP and 6400 iso.

Maybe Canon 5D MkIII should be more polyvalent than Nikon D800.
It was the contrary with 5D MkII and D700.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
What's going to happen in the coming few months, once the D800 starts reaching photographers in substantial numbers:

SCENARIO A)
Most people will just quietly sell the majority of their lenses, because this body really separates "excellent" lenses from "good". Mediocre glass turns out to be sh*t when coupled with this sensor, good becomes "barely adequate".

SCENARIO B)
The Internet will be full of newly acquired D800 owners complaining that there's not really more detail in their images, at least not as much as they had expected having seen the sample photos.

Fact is, anything but the best lenses will look like coke-bottles when coupled with this body. I just pixel-peeped a whole set shot with perfectly good full-frame optics, which at 100% looked like sh*t I would have expected from something I bought for $10 on the flea-market. Excellent lenses however have so far proven to be excellent also on the D800.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fujifilm S3 or S5 Pro is finaly beated by the D800 in terms of DR at ISO <200!

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/792%7C0/(brand)/Nikon/(appareil2)/528%7C0/(brand2)/Fujifilm


PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
To be honest, I'm far from being impressed by this 800 ISO:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vuokrakamera/7009151743/sizes/o/in/photostream/

It would have been a great 800 ISO 6-7 years ago, but from a today's flagship Nikon camera I would expect better;
especially considering that this noise has already passed through a rather heavy AA low pass filter
that has visibly deprived the image of most crispness and detail.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
To be honest, I'm far from being impressed by this 800 ISO:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vuokrakamera/7009151743/sizes/o/in/photostream/


The photo you are linking to is shot at ISO 1600, not ISO 800.

Orio wrote:
It would have been a great 800 ISO 6-7 years ago, but from a today's flagship Nikon camera I would expect better;
especially considering that this noise has already passed through a rather heavy AA low pass filter
that has visibly deprived the image of most crispness and detail.


The D800 is not Nikon's flagship DSLR, the D4 is. The D800 is built for low ISO high detail use, the D4 is the night vision goggles.

I set sharpening, contrast etc. to zero, which is not the standard we are used to seeing when people post lens comparisons. I could easily have tweaked sharpness and contrast but chose not to - you can have a RAW file if you want to (just pm me with Flickr link and I'll send it).

DxOmark.com seems to rank it the all-time DSLR sensor #1, by a margin "quite" big
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/News/DxOMark-news/The-Nikon-D800-is-the-new-king-of-DxOMark-with-a-score-of-95

This is not the first DSLR we will see that uses an overly large sensor to improve practical results, since 99.9% of use today is files less than half the native size.

Last edited by Esox lucius on Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:12 am; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Did you also shoot with a D700? How much of an "upgrade" do you see in the D800 compared to the D700?


PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
fotomachi wrote:
Did you also shoot with a D700? How much of an "upgrade" do you see in the D800 compared to the D700?


D800 vs D700 at 100%
Below ISO 800, the D800 has about 1.5 f-stops more dynamic range, and less shadow noise. When going above ISO 800 the differences are small, the D800 being just marginally "cleaner" when it comes to color noise, but there's more to it: the D800 dynamic range stays about 1 f-stop better than the D700 all the way even at high ISO (1600 to 6400)

D800 files downsized to D700 size, and compared
When the D800 file is downsized to same size as D700 files, the differences are much much bigger, and differences in favor of the D800 (detail, color noise, dynamic range) are very easily spotted even when judging files downsized to HD resolution.

I own both a D700 and D3. I'll soon own also the D800 and D4, and I have no plans to sell the D700/D3 as they are still about 2 f-stops ahead of most other DSLR when it comes to results at high ISO (1600 to 6400). I'll be shooting weddings with a D4 & D3 combo, whereas my colleague will use the D800 for studio/product photography and a D800 + D700 combo when he's shooting weddings.

The big problem right now is that most RAW converters don't support the D800 files. High ISO files are a real challenge for any RAW converter, and the D800 files are no exception. Once 3rd party software support is available, the situation will change for the better.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Esox can you make a test between different raw settings in D800? Like a battle between 12bit vs 14bit with different compression settings?

Maybe on some scene with high DR to see details in shadows and highlights so we can compare.

Thx Smile


PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Esox lucius wrote:
Orio wrote:
To be honest, I'm far from being impressed by this 800 ISO:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vuokrakamera/7009151743/sizes/o/in/photostream/


The photo you are linking to is shot at ISO 1600, not ISO 800.


Ok, sorry, I got confused by the other photo that you posted which is identical scene but 800 ISO.

P.S. Actually, I'm not that excited by the true 800 ISO, either. I have seen much better noise performance from other Nikon cameras.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
No worries Orio

mastazeko wrote:
Esox can you make a test between different raw settings in D800? Like a battle between 12bit vs 14bit with different compression settings? Maybe on some scene with high DR to see details in shadows and highlights so we can compare.


There's plenty of 12-bit vs. 14-bit available on the web Dpreview, Nikonrumors etc.
There's about 14-15 f-stops DR available at base ISO, you can check DxOmark.com for data on DR, and click the link I posted previously in the topic for samples of situations with high dynamic range between shadows and highlights.

In the meanwhile I have a business and 3 photographers to run Wink so I'll return to test photos after the weekend. I will however today shoot some 125/2.5 Macro APO-Lanthar stuff so there might be some samples coming - I have not used that lens yet on the D800 but I suspect it to be marvellous even with this sensor.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
some eyelashes belonging to my assistant


Here's the full frame, resized to 1024px (with wrong white balance but it's a crap frame anyway)


And the Flickr link to 100% crop
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mureena/6877719368/sizes/o/in/photostream/

detail of a key the size of a small coin


Here's the full frame, resized to 1024px


And the Flickr link to 100% crop
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mureena/7023822937/sizes/o/in/photostream/

a detail from my shirt



Here's the full frame, resized to 1024px


And the Flickr link to 100% crop
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mureena/7023822195/sizes/o/in/photostream/

Even though some of these are hand-held and all are quick snaps I did before a product shoot (can't publish the actual photoshoot images yet), I'd say that the Voigtländer 125/2.5 Macro APO Lanthar passed the D800 test.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Impressive samples from CV125, I'm curious about other lenses performance on 36Mpx FF.

I don't know how much sharpening you used, but the 100% crops don't look so crisp to me as lower mpx FF cameras. They look more like from top APS-C cameras. Which is logical, as the pixel density is same as 15Mpx crop camera.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Esox lucius wrote:
.................................., I'd say that the Voigtländer 125/2.5 Macro APO Lanthar passed the D800 test.


Definitely! And in a rather impressive way, as far as I can tell...


PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Minimal sharpening and no contrast added. Sharpening was set to 2 in Capture NX, where the scale is 0 to 9. With just slight post-processing results would be outrageously sharp, as the original file already is one that hardly needed any pp.

I am confident that anyone who buys this camera will very soon notice which of his/her lenses are up to the task, and which are lenses that are great only on small/crop sensors.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jaw-dropping results from the 125. A lens that keeps on giving.
One question, have you had the chance to shoot lenses that were solid on the D700/D3 and whose deficiencies on the D800 are now clearly evident, like perhaps the Nikkor 28/2?


PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
james wrote:
Jaw-dropping results from the 125. A lens that keeps on giving.
One question, have you had the chance to shoot lenses that were solid on the D700/D3 and whose deficiencies on the D800 are now clearly evident, like perhaps the Nikkor 28/2?


Lenses I've shot enough with to confirm they continue to deliver, even when coupled with the D800 sensor:
- Voigtländer 125/2.5 Macro APO Lanthar
- Nikkor 200/2G AF-S VR

Shit so bad you should sell it before word gets around? The D800 made the 24-120/4G VR lens look like a coke-bottle, and that's a lens which is very good on DX and good on D700.

I am going through the lenses one by one and it's not fast work since I work 14 hour days running a business of 3 photogs, and I have about 80 different lenses in Nikon F-mount...

Lenses I intend to test on the D800 the very first day I have an opportunity to, because I suspect they can deliver also on the D800. I picked these because they are lenses that at certain (or several) apertures clearly could resolve more detail than the D700/D3 sensor could.

- 14-24/2.8G & 24-70/2.8G & 70-200/2.8G VR II & 200-400/4G VR
- 24/2.8 Ai-S
- 24/3.5 PC-E
- 28/2.8 Ai/Ai-S
- 28/2 Ai-S
- 28/1.4D AF
- 35/1.4G
- 45/2.8 PC-E
- 50/1.2 Ai-S
- 50/1.4 Ai
- 50/1.8 Ai-S
- 55/3.5 & 55/2.8 Micro
- 85/1.4 Ai-S
- 85/1.4G AF-S
- 85/1.8G AF-S
- 105/2.5 Ai/Ai-S
- 105/2.8G AF-S VR Micro
- 400/2.8G AF-S VR

Possibly also 50/1.4G and 50/1.8G Nikkors, I've always shot them in the dark at high ISO so I don't have daylight material to judge how they really resolve detail on the D3/D700.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looking forward to your findings. It is curious that Nikon did NOT include the 50/1.4G in the list of recommended Nikkors for the D800. The lineup is notably absent of a 50 which makes me suspect a 50/1.2G isn't too far away. You might also consider tossing in the CV58/1.4 if at all possible.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
james wrote:
It is curious that Nikon did NOT include the 50/1.4G in the list of recommended Nikkors for the D800. The lineup is notably absent of a 50 which makes me suspect a 50/1.2G isn't too far away.


I am 99% sure an AF-S 50mm f/1.2G Nikkor will be announced this year. I don't have any inside information, but I am nevertheless willing to bet money on it. There is already a patent filed in 2008 for this lens, patent published in 2010:

http://nikonrumors.com/2010/02/07/there-is-a-patent-for-a-new-nikon-af-s-nikkor-50mm-f1-2g-lens.aspx/

That patent's optical scheme is very similar to the 50/1.2 Ai-S, which focuses by moving the whole helicoid. The 50/1.4G AF-S is also a lens that focuses by moving the whole lens assembly (this is why that lens is not a very fast focusing one though it is AF-S).

james wrote:
You might also consider tossing in the CV58/1.4 if at all possible.


Absolutely! I also look forward to testing the other Voigtländer SL series, I have them all in F-mount: 40/2, 58/1.4, 75/2.5, 90/3.5, 125/2.5 and 180/4. I suspect the 58/1.4 will be very good on a D800, because center sharpness was flat from f/2.8 to f/5.6, ie. it probably outresolves the D700/D3 sensor.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Please test some ZF too.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
85/1.4 ZF and 50mm Makro-Planar is on the list, yes!


PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd be especially curious about the (now discontinued) ZF 2.8/25 Distagon, it seems that it would be the one with the highest resolvance of all Z lenses. Maybe you can borrow it for testing.
Apparently the new 2/25 isn't so much resolving.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Roger Cicala at of Lensrentals.com has been testing lense on the D800 and regularly adding the test numbers:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/03/d800-lens-selection

Sadly, the Nikkor 85/1.4D didn't pass the test while the 105 showed pretty poor numbers.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
james wrote:
the 105 showed pretty poor numbers.


They tested the Nikkor 105mm f/2 DC lens, not the 105mm f/2.5 Ai-S. The Nikkor 105/2D AF DC is a defocusing lens built for portrait photography with deliberate softness and defocusing capability, so I am not surprised Roger Cicala finds it unsuitable for landscape use or any other photography requiring maximum detail.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Esox lucius wrote:


They tested the Nikkor 105mm f/2 DC lens, not the 105mm f/2.5 Ai-S. The Nikkor 105/2D AF DC is a defocusing lens built for portrait photography with deliberate softness and defocusing capability, so I am not surprised Roger Cicala finds it unsuitable for landscape use or any other photography requiring maximum detail.


I wasn't implying it was the AIS. But when the defocus is set at '0' it should perform as a normal lens of that FL.
The 85/1.4D didn't make the cut, which saddens me. I grew quite fond of it on my D700. I don't hold out much hope for the 85/1.4 AIS either. Sad
I considered the ZF 85 but focus-shift issues made it less appealing, though I know it's one of your favorites. I will hold out hope for my CV SLI 3,5/90 at that FL.

What was a surprise was how poorly the new 24-120 performed, worse in fact than the consumer-grade 28-300, and that it's actually on Nikon's list of recommended glass.
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