Next Logic Step (purchase)

ChromaticAberration · Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 819 Location: Portugal

So.. all this manual focusing lenses can be a pain in the ass specially if one is still trying to figure out the best way of starting with photography without spending a bunch of money.

At the moment I own a Yashica ML 1.7 which I have read is a pretty good 50mm so I intend to use it as my standard 'nifty fifty' unless I run into problems with the lack of auto-focus and such.

However, If I do get used to this photography paradigm of using MF lenses I would like to know you're opinion on:

Which are the best lenses without breaking the bank (nor collectionism wise) to build a sturdy set of focal lengths that can take on 90% of situations?

I know most of you will start throwing names with "Takumar" and "Zeiss" or ending in "gon" or "nar" but I would appreciate you guys skipping lenses that cost an arm and a leg for I would not be able to afford them.

Thanks in advance.

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

define your budget for each focal lengths much easier to advice.

ChromaticAberration · Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 819 Location: Portugal

Lowest possible? =p

I can tell you that my Yashica costed $26 shipped. I will still have to buy the C/Y adapter and the 52mm filter for lens protection which will raise the price a bit but still alot better than Canon's plasticky nifty fifty I believe.

I considered it to be a fairly good deal.

At the moment I really don't see myself spending a considerable amount of money on any lens but maybe I am not seeing the advantages of making the right choices even when the price is a bit steeper. And yes 300 or 400 dollars on a decades old lens is a lot for me.

BRunner · Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Posts: 705 Location: Czech Republic

Most of the time you get what you pay for....
But OK, I suppose you use Canon APS-C camera.
Forget everythig <28mm, your 18-55 zoom is better than everything you can buy for reasonable money.
28mm.... Pentax-M 2.8/28mm second version (~50€) or Rikenon XR 2.8/28mm (<30€ if you are lucky), both Pentax K mount.
35mm.... Takumar 3.5/35mm (<20€)
50mm.... Porst MC (or other Tomioka based 55) 1.4/55 (20-50€), Pentax-M 1.4/50 (~60€), Industar 61LZ 2.8/50 for close-ups and macro (<40€).
forget the lenses between 75-85mm
100mm.... Pentacon 2.8/100 (<50€ with some luck)
135mm.... Pentacon MC 2.8/135 and/or CZJ Sonnar 4/135 (you can get both lenses <20€)
200mm... Takumar 4/200 (<40€) or Soligor 3.5/200, Pentacon 4/200 MC (<20€).

If you go for CZJ or Pentacon lenses, look for Exa or Prakticar mount. They are usually cheaper than they M42 counterparts.

luisalegria · Expire: 2018-01-18

Brunner is correct about the 18-55 zoom.

Takumar and Pentax 28-35mm wide angles can be expensive, and its not always possible to buy at the lowest prices. You will also be searching for a while. Why not try a cheap 28mm from another brand ? There are plenty for $10. I have very good results from Soligor and Vivitar brands, and even from an old Auto-Tamron (Adaptamatic mounts).

You already have a nice 50mm, so thats OK there.

Best value for 80-200mmm is the Tamron 80-210mm f/3.8 model 103A zoom. Look for one with a PK Adaptall, or you may have to buy a Chinese Adaptall mount for PK. If the lens comes with a Minolta or Canon FD Adptall, or no mount, you can often get the lens for $10. The Chinese Adaptalls go for maybe $15. The Model 03A is almost as good. You can tell them apart because the 03A has a built-in hood.

If you want a 135/2.8, well, almost all of them are good, or at least good enough. Look for Vivitar or Soligor brands. I have not yet seen a bad one. Don't pay more than $10.

300mm and up - surprisingly there are many quite good long lenses. Look for a Tokina made 300/5.5. There are preset and Auto versions of this under many brands - look for the 300mm f 5.5. All seem to be very good.

400mm - There are many quite good 400/6.3 lenses under many brands. In the US some good ones were sold as Spiratone and Astranar; in Europe they would have other brands.

RioRico · Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:46 am Post subject:

What camera do you have?

My dSLR is a Pentax K20D. I currently own 180 lenses. Hopefully, 20 of those will be sold, but more will arrive. (I trade in lenses, reselling some to buy better for myself.) Of those 180, just 10 are autofocus, and cost an average of US$282 each. The 170 non-AF lenses cost an average of US$22 each. Rather a difference, eh? US$260 for some gearing, g'zzz...

Some of my best MF lenses cost under US$10. It takes a lot of eBay scans, a lot of research, and a bit of luck. I recently bought a Sears-Tomioka 55/1.4 for TWO BUCKS!! I got a Nikkor 85/2 for NINE BUCKS! And a Zeiss Tessar 50/2.8 (Exakta mount, 12 iris blades) for SEVEN BUCKS! BOKEH MONSTER! Look long and hard, and set price limits on your bids, and you too can grab great deals.

What to look for: Many good manual primes in 28-35-50-135-200mm exist in M42 screwmount with brands like Vivitar, Sears, Soligor, Porst, Hanimex, Mamiya. Many good Russian-Ukrainian lenses are bargains, with names like Jupiter, Helios, Industar, Mir, Zenitar. You don't need names like Angenieux, Zeiss, Schneider, Leitz, Nikon, to get fine glass -- although those *do* tend to be better, if sometimes overpriced.

And remember the ranking of importance of the factors involved in photography:

1) Photographer
2) Subject
3) Light
4) Lens
5) Camera

The lens is the next-to-least important factor. (So I say, as I fondle my piles of lenses...) Some terrible shots are made with great lenses, and vice-versa. In other words, don't agonize over not having perfect glass. You can obtain professional results with a Sears set: 28-35-50-135mm, costing US$12 each.

My basic rule for unknown lenses: If it costs less than a big sandwich or hamburger, BUY IT. If it costs more than a good pizza, DON'T. Good luck!

Kram · Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 1344 Location: Portland, OR

If you are really serious about photography, start where you are. Get really good with the lenses you have. Shoot every day. Critique yourself or have someone who is really good critique you hard. People are too nice (mostly) on the internet. Shoot and critique, then reshoot and critique. Take a class or seminar with a good teacher. That will teach you far more than collecting glass.

When I went to photography school, the guy with the best equipment was the worst shooter. It's about the person behind the camera, not the lens, the camera or the post-processing.

It's a never ending exploration and it can be very rewarding and enjoyable.

Or if you are just doing it for a fun hobby then nevermind what I've said.
Rolling Eyes

Enjoy!

PS: I am a pro photographer since 1982.

xjjohnno · Expire: 2011-11-18

I'm in it for the fun and my pics propably show that. Reasonable to great glass helps though as Coke bottle lenses need a lot of skill to get even vaguely passable results. Mamiya Sekor M42s might be worth grabbing, got a couple of 50/55s that are pretty decent and bought for dirt cheap due to not having cult status. Likewise the Yashica/Yashinon lenses in that focal range. Cosina have some nice ones as well. likewise Ricoh, mainly in PK mount.

mo · Expire: 2016-07-30

I started with Soligors and lesser known lenses...under the $20au upto the $50 bracket and I was not fussy about a little fungus being in the lens...now I know what I want.I still enjoy just buying and trying any reasonable priced lens that fits my budget.
I am trying to snare some of the "better" lenses.It takes time and watching ebay/or what ever auction site you have and sometimes you just get a great deal locally.
I 2nd the metal Auto Rikenons in M42 mount and Sekors.A Pentax PK-M42 adapter is priceless.

BRunner · Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Posts: 705 Location: Czech Republic

I've went from el-cheapo no-brand lenses to Zeisses and Leicas. In the end, I think that is better to get one good lens than 10 mediocre lenses. My suggested lenses are are selected from >10 tested lenses of the same focal length. They performance is mostly only slightly worse than much more costly ones.
Don't buy too cheap, the best price/performance ratio lies ~50€. Here you can get very decent lenses.

Sevo · Expire: 2012-12-03

ChromaticAberration · Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 819 Location: Portugal

Thanks for the insights so far!

Looking at it from my perspective I only see the need for something telephoto-like and wider since I already have the 50mm and I don't intend to spend money on similar focal lengths.

I will be on the lookout for some of the names that were mentioned so far.

Update:
After a quick search English eBay is a no-no, nearly impossible to get anything below 20bucks+shipping and I'm talking about the least known lenses.

American eBay may have some bargains waiting but will require some more patience.

trev · Joined: 30 Jun 2010 Posts: 580 Location: North Wales - UK

My favourite zoom for my Canon apsc is a Sigma 17-70, on film Eos cameras its Canons 35-135 and if I want a nifty fifty on my apsc I use Tamron adaptall 28mm f2.5

BenediktW · Joined: 24 Jan 2008 Posts: 336 Location: Solingen, Germany

Try the German eBay. There is a lot of equipment on sale, and prices are stable. Compared to the American eBay, you should have lower shipping costs to Portugal.

Generally, I see your point, and I also feel that sometimes, talk about photographic equipment becomes some kind of arms race. But I think, you have arrived exactly at the right place here, and have already recieved some helpful tips.
While there is of course something true about the Zeiss, Leica etc. cult, this does not mean there are no many other high quality brands which have produced wonderful lenses.

But to make a more detailed recommendation, it would surely help a lot to know what camera you are using.

In my general opinion, you should take a look at the old Nikkors, Pre-Ai-series. It should be easy to find a 28mm F3,5 or 35mm F2,8 and a 135mm F3,5 for around 40€. And this makes a good set, like Sevo already mentioned.

Furthermore, you can take a look at some M42 gems. My recurring advise is to look for Mamiya Sekor lenses. They have built a wonderful 135mm F2,8 which has the best colour rendering and the sweetes Bokeh I know of any lens. You need some patience to find one, but it is definitely worth it. You have to distinguish the "black series" (looking a bit like old Tokinas) and the later SX series (very distinctive style, similar to the 645 lenses). With the SX, you have to remove a distance pin at the back and block the aperture (no A/M switch), but this is dead easy.
There is also a 28mm F2,8 which I really love, but it is almost never on auction. I can't even guess a price for it, but sadly enough, you can mostly buy the SX series for 20-60€.

Also with Pentax, there are cheap and interesting lenses, I found a very good Super-Tak 55mm F1,8 M42 for the price of a McDonald's menu. The lens tastes better and is healthier, I think. Cool

Regards,
Benedikt

ChromaticAberration · Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 819 Location: Portugal

Thanks Benedict will look for those Mamiya!

Olympus OM Zuiko 135mm f/3.5 MC : $92 shipped. Not worth it? I guess not having in mind the prices alreaady mentioned for similar lenses. Only asking because it is a deal from Portugal.

The body is a Canon EOS 1000D.

BenediktW · Joined: 24 Jan 2008 Posts: 336 Location: Solingen, Germany

The Canon is really nice for adapting the most exotic lenses.

The Zuiko is a good lens I think, but you can get Nikon and Pentax a lot cheaper than this.

Click here to see on Ebay.de <- old revision (CHEAP), fine F2,8 version.

Click here to see on Ebay.de <- new revision, good F3,5 version, slight scratches on the front lens, should go CHEAP.

You should calculate between 10 and 20€ for shipping from Germany, but these two lenses might be a real bargain.

Generally, you should go for a Nikon adapter. They have built so much fine and professional grade glass which is top quality and reliable also after 40 years.

Regards,
Benedikt

Edit:

Sorry for the similar focal length, but you might also take a look at this one:
http://forum.mflenses.com/micro-nikkor-55-2-8-t35262.html

ChromaticAberration · Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 819 Location: Portugal

Thanks Benedict!

The first Nikkor is already @ €16 as we speak, plus shipping! It will get too expensive I guess.

The second one has very expensive shipping any considerable bump in bids will make it also a bit steeper for me.

All Nikors I have found, including that 55mm 2.8 micro version, are all considerably expensive considering the values we have been discussing so far unfortunately.

BenediktW · Joined: 24 Jan 2008 Posts: 336 Location: Solingen, Germany

I know what you mean, normally they are not thrown away. But you should try to be patient and scan through ebay every week, and select potential bargains, and then bid low prices. From time to time, you will have a very good catch. It´s my way of buying lenses, too.

spleenone · Joined: 26 Dec 2009 Posts: 1130 Location: Slovakia

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Hey CA,

Well you've gotten some really good advice so far, but I would like to take a moment to discuss your camera. I have the same one, except it's called a "Rebel XS" here in the states -- a name that I really don't like, but that's beside the point.

One thing you need to start doing is getting comfortable using MF lenses with your 1000D. And learning its shortcomings when it comes to using MF lenses. For example, unless you're using a chipped adapter that you have programmed specifically for that lens, you'll likely find that your exposure can be way off. It is not unusual for me to have to dial in as much as 2 stops of underexposure -- and sometimes even more, forcing me into manual mode to achieve correct exposure. So be prepared for this -- it's just the way EOS cameras are when using some MF lenses.

Also, the focusing screen for the 1000D and the other compact EOS models is optimized for best brightness at around f/4. The problem with this is, the focusing screen cannot detect accurate focus if your lens is set to a maximum aperture faster than f/4. So this means that, if you're shooting with your 50mm f/1.7 wide open, your camera will not be giving you an accurately focused image in the viewfinder. Try it and you'll see what I'm talking about. So, what's the solution? Well some folks have tried split-image focusing screens and they seem to work for lenses faster than f/4, but the split image area will go dark mostly at apertures slower than f/4. You can also buy a chipped adapter, program it for that lens, and you'll have a focus confirmation dot in the viewfinder. This usually works okay. Or you can use Live View. I usually use LV, but the problem with using it is, if it's daylight and outdoors, the screen is picking up a lot of reflections and it is very difficult to see the subject. There are little clip on accessory hoods you can buy -- I think I'm gonna try one of these, I see them on eBay for cheap, or you can go with a more expensive loupe-style hood that covers the LCD screen.

So you need to keep these factors in mind when you decide to use MF lenses, or else the experience can be rather frustrating. After almost two years of using MF lenses with my XS, I have some experience in this regard.

ChromaticAberration · Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 819 Location: Portugal

Yes I have taken those things into consideration except that I am still missing the C/Y adapter which I will buy very soon.

This topic is supposed to give me some ideas in case that, after I start shooting with my Yashica, I decide to keep buying MF lenses instead of modern ones.

I have seen great photos, IQ wise, taken with MF lenses so I am looking forward to exploring this alternative.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

If your 18-55 is your only EF lens, I'd recommend your getting the 55-250IS to round out your AF kit. It's gotten great reviews. or maybe a Tokina/Tamron/Sigma equivalent? There are instances you'll find where having a good AF telephoto will be really nice to have. Like any sort of action events, from motorsports to trying to track a hyperactive child or pet.

After you'e gotten these aspects of your AF kit nailed down, then start filling out your kit with some cool MF glass. No need to limit yourself to Yashica. One of the nice things about EOS is the selection of nice mounts you have to choose from. M42, Pk, Nikon, Oly, Leica R, and probably more.

If you're on a tight budget, don't be afraid to experiment with some of the more obscure (read cheap) optics. Chances are pretty good somebody here has tried one of them and they've been discussed here. And hey, if you're the first, then add to the knowledge base. Many of us are convinced that there are many underrated optics out there that are actually excellent performers if given half the chance. But if a lens is a dog, don't be surprised when we tell it like it is, and warn folks to stay away from it.

There are also many third-party lenses, like Vivitar, Tokina, Tamron, Sigma, and others that are excellent performers that can often be bought for very cheap prices. So don't overlook these either.

DSG · Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 544 Location: London, UK.

ChromaticAberration · Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 819 Location: Portugal

I don't want to go offtopic but a lens hood is bulkier and when properly assembled is not exactly advisable to store in the bag without disassembling again. But hey! I will take that into consideration.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Depends on the hood. Most of the rigid hoods I own or have owned can be reversed and put back onto the lens backwards, so the amount of extra bag space they occupy is minimized. They either clip or bayonet quickly into place, so no problem there either.