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Rolf
Joined: 02 May 2009
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Location: NRW/Germany
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 Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:28 pm Post subject: Motorbike crash |
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Rolf wrote:
This is the final result if someone drives with too much speed on his motorbike.
FD 4/80-200L & FD 8/500
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marty
Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 767
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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marty wrote:
Hello.
There are some bikers out there that seem not having much common sense when riding  . Anyway excellent reportage.
Cheers, M.-
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womble
Joined: 28 Sep 2009
Posts: 987
Location: Hertfordshire
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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womble wrote:
I was doing 5mph when I had my crash. Lady pulled out in front of me in a Landrover. Still smashed my knee and had the helicopter come out. I now have a titanium plate and seven screws in my left knee!
Nice photos, BTW 
K.
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nemesis101
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 2050
Location: Oregon USA
Expire: 2015-01-22
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:13 pm Post subject: Really? Brilliant photography but, Marty... |
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nemesis101 wrote:
Interesting you ascribe blame to the motor-cyclist, were you there and did you witness the event?
I just ask as my son Jon aged 28 died from crashing on a bend in the road in Essex UK on August 2nd last year...
No-one witnessed what happened and he lay in a ditch for more than 12 hours before help arrived.. (though the police reckoned he hesitated to avoid hitting some wildlife than ran across from the nearby field) I wondered if you could shed some light on that too?
Doug.
| marty wrote: |
Hello.
There are some bikers out there that seem not having much common sense when riding . Anyway excellent reportage.
Cheers, M.- |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 29545
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
The thought still makes me sad, Doug
You must have surely been very tough to stand the pain.
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nemesis101
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 2050
Location: Oregon USA
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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nemesis101 wrote:
It wasn't easy Orio, but one does what one must?
No amount of grieving will bring him back - he was a very talented designer and photographer too
| Orio wrote: |
The thought still makes me sad, Doug
You must have surely been very tough to stand the pain. |
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Last edited by nemesis101 on Thu May 20, 2010 11:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nemesis101
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 2050
Location: Oregon USA
Expire: 2015-01-22
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:21 pm Post subject: My 3 sons in happier times... |
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nemesis101 wrote:
This is a cropped version of a poor scan of a 4x6 print... taken back in 1993!
(Jon is standing)
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
This is hardest thing in life , no words.
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Rolf
Joined: 02 May 2009
Posts: 4123
Location: NRW/Germany
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Rolf wrote:
Sorry Doug,
I didn´t know this and I can understand your feelings looking at the images. If I had known it I wouldn´t shown the pictures.
I arrived few minutes after the crash at that place. I have had a long discussion with the policeman shown on one of the pictures. There were 3 bikers all too quick and one of them lost the control and crashes into the fence on the right side.
We are living in an area (as you can see on the images) which is very popular for bikers at the evening or weekend. Unfortunately it is a fact that most of them are too quick on the road. On this road there are between 50-100 crashes with bikes a year.
The police started with radar etc. but at the end they have no chance. Last week was a report in the German TV. They warned all (for) bikers because the new bike season starts now and they should be careful.
Few days ago a biker overhauled my car on the motorway. I was on the left side with approx. 190 km/h speed. I saw him in the last second and he overhauled me between my car and the guarding rail in the middle - a distance of perhaps less than 1 meter with more than 200 km/h.
I know there are a lot of bikers they drive very carefully - but a lot they don´t.
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xjjohnno
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 1270
Location: Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:07 am Post subject: |
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xjjohnno wrote:
I ride and cringe at the antics of some riders. I also cringe at the behaviour of some drivers. The marketing of motor vehicles does encourage a certain level of bravado that has no place on a public road.
That being said there are also quite a lot of accidents you can't blame on the rider, encounters with wildlife, stupid road users and poorly maintained roads all come to mind. |
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nemesis101
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 2050
Location: Oregon USA
Expire: 2015-01-22
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:19 am Post subject: |
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nemesis101 wrote:
S'ok, I have no problems with someone on the scene commenting... it was the other member who wasn't and decided the biker was at fault I took issue with! My sensibilities should not dictate what can be shown here...
I have been hit a number of times by car drivers whilst riding a motorbike.. from behind when they skidded, from the side when they ran a red, and once by a mobile crane which put me in hospital with bandages from head to toe...
Jon was with another (female) biker friend earlier before his fatal accident when a woman on her car phone pulled across their path without looking... Jon escaped with bruising but the girl on her bike was in a coma and has permanent brain damage...
It's true many bikers are very very foolish in the risks they take, but many are just victims of circumstance or other's stupidity?
Doug.
PS VERY VERY sharp and vivid pictures.... was that a Canon L series by any chance?
| Rolf wrote: |
Sorry Doug,
I didn´t know this and I can understand your feelings looking at the images. If I had known it I wouldn´t shown the pictures.
I arrived few minutes after the crash at that place. I have had a long discussion with the policeman shown on one of the pictures. There were 3 bikers all too quick and one of them lost the control and crashes into the fence on the right side.
We are living in an area (as you can see on the images) which is very popular for bikers at the evening or weekend. Unfortunately it is a fact that most of them are too quick on the road. On this road there are between 50-100 crashes with bikes a year.
The police started with radar etc. but at the end they have no chance. Last week was a report in the German TV. They warned all (for) bikers because the new bike season starts now and they should be careful.
Few days ago a biker overhauled my car on the motorway. I was on the left side with approx. 190 km/h speed. I saw him in the last second and he overhauled me between my car and the guarding rail in the middle - a distance of perhaps less than 1 meter with more than 200 km/h.
I know there are a lot of bikers they drive very carefully - but a lot they don´t. |
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Spotmatic
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 4045
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Spotmatic wrote:
Definitely a nice series, despite the subject!
Rolf, I see that you made the same mistake as I did a few months ago while taking photos of a flying helicopter: you used a too fast shutter speed. Now it looks like the helicopter is completely frozen and falling down.  A bit of movement in the helicopter blades would have been nice, don't you think?
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IAZA
Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 2587
Location: Indonesia
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 2:13 am Post subject: |
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IAZA wrote:
I'm sorry for John too,
about the nice pictures, where is the motorbike? the title mentioned motorobike, but i don't see one |
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NikonD
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 1922
Location: Slovenija
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 6:26 am Post subject: |
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NikonD wrote:
I have nothing to say against drivers that drive "Harley Davidson" type of a bike, I've never meet a driver who was exceeding normal speeds, they drive relaxed.... but the "super bike" type drivers are ALLWAYS exceeding normal speeds, I don't know a guy (and I know a lot of them having this type of bike) who didnt a least once tried to bring his bike to it's maximum.... and that often gets them killed, probably taking some innocent lives with them 
I've never been on a crash site before so I can't comment what've realy happend, but sometimes you just look at the type of bike and it becomes clear...
no offence nemesis101 |
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nemesis101
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 2050
Location: Oregon USA
Expire: 2015-01-22
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 7:48 am Post subject: |
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nemesis101 wrote:
Hmmm
As all but one of my accidents happened when I was stationary.. and the one with the crane happened when it backed out into my path and nearly decapitated me.. I am not sure the type of bike (sports-tourers mostly) had much to do with it...?
As for my son's accident, the police after extensive tests both at the site and on simulators did not find that speed played any part in his fatality.
Doug
quote="NikonD"]I have nothing to say against drivers that drive "Harley Davidson" type of a bike, I've never meet a driver who was exceeding normal speeds, they drive relaxed.... but the "super bike" type drivers are ALLWAYS exceeding normal speeds, I don't know a guy (and I know a lot of them having this type of bike) who didnt a least once tried to bring his bike to it's maximum.... and that often gets them killed, probably taking some innocent lives with them
I've never been on a crash site before so I can't comment what've realy happend, but sometimes you just look at the type of bike and it becomes clear...
no offence nemesis101[/quote]
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eeyore_nl
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 837
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: |
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eeyore_nl wrote:
Usually we motorcyclists are knocked of the bike by car drivers, and in many cases both the motorcyclist and the car driver did not exceed the speed limits (see the MEADS report). Maybe accidents will be prevented when car drivers finally start paying attention while driving?
I do all my commuting on a motorcycle. I too want to come home safely again to my family each night. So I do my best do drive safely. Unfortunately car and van drivers don't always seem to care about anything that happens around them. Especially if it involves something smaller than a car, like a pedestrian, cyclist, or motorcyclist.
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nemesis101
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 2050
Location: Oregon USA
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 8:27 am Post subject: |
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nemesis101 wrote:
I have to agree.. somehow motorcycles and their riders are all too often invisible to car drivers, especially those drivers drinking a huge mug of coffee / phoning / texting driving with their dog on their lap / reading a map or as a Facebook picture I took recently showed, eating a meal using bloody chopsticks whilst doing 120kph down the freeway towards Portland!
I very nearly lost control of my bike once when some lout threw their half drunk soda out the car window and smack into my face.. and don't get me started on the number of times I have seen lighted cigarette ends fly past my nose when some car driver flicks it out their window..
Doug
| eeyore_nl wrote: |
Usually we motorcyclists are knocked of the bike by car drivers, and in many cases both the motorcyclist and the car driver did not exceed the speed limits (see the MEADS report). Maybe accidents will be prevented when car drivers finally start paying attention while driving?
I do all my commuting on a motorcycle. I too want to come home safely again to my family each night. So I do my best do drive safely. Unfortunately car and van drivers don't always seem to care about anything that happens around them. Especially if it involves something smaller than a car, like a pedestrian, cyclist, or motorcyclist. |
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Last edited by nemesis101 on Sat May 22, 2010 8:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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xjjohnno
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
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Location: Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 8:28 am Post subject: |
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xjjohnno wrote:
Road users need to be tested for attitude as well as driving skills. Too many folk, bike and car users have the wrong attitude making them a hazard to all other road users.
My most recent bike injury was thanks to a young lady deciding on running a red light. Thankfully I only ended up with a broken wrist which was more due to me deciding I'd prefer to part company with the bike rather then swmacking into the side of her car. So why did she run the red light? I'd love to have had a check done on her mobile phone records. One thing is certain, her attention wasn't where it should be and that is on what is happening on the road.
Then there are those caring and loving tail gaters not leaving themselves adequate reaction time should an emergency occur. Another favourite of mine are the I don't really know where I am going and need to chop across everyone else's path because they haven't had the intelligence to place their vehicles in a lane suitable to setting up their next move to execute a turn. |
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NikonD
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 1922
Location: Slovenija
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:15 am Post subject: |
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NikonD wrote:
The majority of biker death in our country is excessive speed... dont get me wrong there are other factors as well but this is the most common one...
and how can you see a biker if he is going 200kph on a 90kph road, cornering like Casey Stoner, doing wheeleys at 100kph+ on a highway... this goes only to super bike users I've never seen choper bikers doing that
not accusing only the bikers but the car drivers as well... as Doug said...
Last edited by NikonD on Sat May 22, 2010 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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eeyore_nl
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 837
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 10:11 am Post subject: |
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eeyore_nl wrote:
| NikonD wrote: |
The majority of biker death in our country is excessive speed... dont get me wrong there are other factors as well but this is the most common one...
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Nope, that is what car drivers want to believe. The raw statistics show that most bikers die because they were overlooked by automobilists. Speed may be a factor, but in many cases (take a look at the MEADS report!) both parties were not excessively speeding. In fact, many bikers get injured or die in low speed situations (50km/h or lower).
Look here (happened very recently in the Netherlands). Do you think the biker did much more than 30 km/h? I don't think so, and still the car driver didnt even notice him!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njXUUyolKHU
The wife of a friend of mine died (she was the passenger) in a not too different situation. Low speed, blind car driver, and hit in exactly the wrong way (ripped aorta). 
Edit: yes, I do know that some motorcyclists have very dangerous riding habits, and I think that is very unwise.
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NikonD
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 1922
Location: Slovenija
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:50 am Post subject: |
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NikonD wrote:
I'm sorry to hear that... and as I said both sides should be aware that they are not alone on the streets... one has to be fully focused on whats happening around and in front of him...
The majority of biker death in our country is excessive speed... dont get me wrong there are other factors as well but this is the most common one...
http://www.motosvet.com/portal/artimg/2008012805_ETSC%20razmerje%20nevarnosti%20motor-avto.jpg
"Voziti se z motociklom po naših cestah je tako 50-krat bolj nevarno kot z avtomobilom."
Driving with a motorcycle on our roads is 50x more dangerous than with a car.... exceesive speed, unaware car drivers, bad road conditions... |
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eeyore_nl
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 837
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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eeyore_nl wrote:
| NikonD wrote: |
I'm sorry to hear that... and as I said both sides should be aware that they are not alone on the streets... one has to be fully focused on whats happening around and in front of him...
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Thank you!
True, awareness and planning ahead are key, for motorcyclists and car drivers. Besides, motorcyclists should be aware that they have a large risk of being overlooked by a car driver.
However, when people are still eating in the car, shaving, programming their navigation system, using their cell phone, fiddling with their audio system ... how well aware do you think they are in traffic? The fact that cars have become very safe makes automobilists even less aware of less protected (so: less dangerous to them) people in traffic. Not only to motorbikers, but also to cyclists (we have many people on bicycles here) and pedestrians.
Most people in traffic die because of a car driver.
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
I noticed that m/cyclist in the YouTube video had his headlight on, and he wasn't going fast. It's incredible that the car driver just didn't see him when he turned, but it happens all the time. Maybe a motorists's brain is tuned to just watching for cars, who knows. I wonder if a flashing headlight would be better, like the LED lights cyclists use.
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eeyore_nl
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 837
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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eeyore_nl wrote:
| peterqd wrote: |
| Maybe a motorists's brain is tuned to just watching for cars, who knows. |
Yes, in traffic, which is a situation where you are presented with an overload of information, people only filter out the things that are dangerous to them. For a car driver, that is other cars, trucks and buses. Not pedestrians, bicycle riders and motorcyclists.
| Quote: |
| I wonder if a flashing headlight would be better, like the LED lights cyclists use. |
I don't know ... flashing lights will only add to the information overload, and it will make it harder to judge the speed of a motorcycle.
The fact is; as cars get safer (airbags and such), their drivers become more dangerous to others. And I don't think you are going to change that very easily.
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