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More vintage stuff getting even more expensive
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:58 pm    Post subject: More vintage stuff getting even more expensive Reply with quote
I started getting extra MF gear when everybody (almost) switched to digital stuff I couldn't afford. I got a lot of good stuff for very cheap or even for free, but these times are obviously over. FF digital has come and with it a scramble for MF lenses. Now, that gear prices equal or even sometime exceed new stuff's.
Here is one - collectible I must admit - which struck me. (canon FD 55/1,2 Aspherical)
https://kamerastore.fi/en/products/canon-55mm-f1-2-s-s-c-aspherical-canon-fd
and
https://fotohandeldelfshaven.nl/product/canon-lens-fd-55mm-11-2-ssc-aspherical/
This one stuns:
https://m.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.239511322840125.1073741868.162076460583612&type=3
I suppose I should stop looking...

Last edited by Phalbert on Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:44 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
...

Last edited by visualopsins on Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:50 am; edited 3 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Try your luck with this one. Price will explode towards the end Wink
https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/w1058574804


PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
Try your luck with this one. Price will explode towards the end Wink
https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/w1058574804


Yes, I'll have a look in time but I'm not intend on buying. Thanks. I was checking the worth of my regular 55 SSC when I stumbled on these prices. I thought the nikon noct was the 1,2 to have...


PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jump on the gravy-train … supply and demand … there are (probably) numerically more photographers around these days, many with extra cash to spend, than there ever were "back in the day", so the price will go up and the cash will be spent!
When "everyone" was going for bayonet-fit and then autofocus back in the '80's-'90's there were basketfuls of traded-in second-hand screw-mount and manual-focus lenses being virtually given away in the local camera shops and the classified listings in the back pages of the magazines.
I'm pleased I invested then!
Mostly I've kept (and still use) what I bought back then, even if the are a bit slower to use, by modern standards.
The odd three or four lenses that I eventually deemed to be surplus to requirements were duly posted on eBay and snapped up by enthusiastic Japanese collectors for what seemed like ridiculous prices Smile
Maybe they're now selling them on Wink


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There are some "rare" or just recently popular lenses that go for higher and higher prices, some are not easy to find at all... On the other hand, if a lens was not "overhyped" on Youtube by influencers, or very rare, or very fast or unusual in some other way, prices are not that much higher than in recent years, or not higher at all. That is, as long as you patiently look for a decent deal. That's why I don't buy lenses in any particular order (based on how much I like/need them), but whenever I see a good offer, as long as they are on my wish list. I don't look for any rare collector's items that are more expensive than optically better modern alternatives, so I don't suffer financially, but it's no wonder that rare items that aren't being made anymore get more expensive over time. I like a good, small and lightweight vintage 35mm F2.8 lens instead of some modern plastic fantastic, but I buy a modern F1.4 lens instead of optically worse, but rare Distagon etc. On the other hand, with proper care a fine vintage lens will outlive any modern AF alternative, and its price will only go up, so it can still be good investment for those who can afford to play that game.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes. The price of some rare Canon FD lenses with aspherical element goes sky high as videographer are hunting for them. I have said few times in this forum. Wink


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It happens with the cameras as well, a while back I got an Edixa Flex (1958) Camera in very nice condition. After that I thought I would try to get one of the models with the aperture stop down mechanism and the slow shutter speeds, only to find the prices had gone nuts. I eventually got one okay, but about 18 months later I realised some YouTube guy had done a video about them, kicking off the large price rise. I got the first Camera for about $30, but now they're being listed for $2-400 depending on the model and what lens it comes with.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alun Thomas wrote:
... but about 18 months later I realised some YouTube guy had done a video about them, kicking off the large price rise. ...


Influencers not only influence people, but also prices.

This can become a perpetuating myth, maintaining unreasonably high asking prices (with virtually no sales) despite plenty supply. The Minolta ROKKOR RF 250mm f/8 mirror lens is just one such example.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
On the other hand zooms are still cheap https://youtu.be/Sjo0HvjDSwo I don't think Kai and Lok will change it much with this video Wink


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
On the other hand zooms are still cheap https://youtu.be/Sjo0HvjDSwo I don't think Kai and Lok will change it much with this video Wink


LOL Laugh 1

I would love to see their confusion/reaction when confronted with a preset lens Wink


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Buying such a lens is like dating the ex-girlfriend of a billionaire. Only for dreamers with deep pockets. Laugh 1

Seriously though, it's much more rational to buy a new modern lens like the Zeiss Otus 55mm F1.4. The 1/2 stop difference is not very important in practice and the Zeiss Otus is certainly a technically much better lens.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gerald wrote:
Buying such a lens is like dating the ex-girlfriend of a billionaire. Only for dreamers with deep pockets. Laugh 1

Seriously though, it's much more rational to buy a new modern lens like the Zeiss Otus 55mm F1.4. The 1/2 stop difference is not very important in practice and the Zeiss Otus is certainly a technically much better lens.

I bet the Otus will have more or less the same transmission as the FD 50/1.2 ASPHERICAL on a digital camera. Wink


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
Try your luck with this one. Price will explode towards the end Wink
https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/w1058574804


It ultimately went for 252000 Yen. A bit less than 2000 euro/dollar considerably less than the fixed prices you'll find online



PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
Yes. The price of some rare Canon FD lenses with aspherical element goes sky high as videographer are hunting for them. I have said few times in this forum. Wink


The reason why some videographer would prefer FDs? Sorry if you explained that already in the forum. In short?

D1N0, so it went for about $ 2000...


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
'Some' lenses and cameras are fetching crazy prices, but it is the rare and collectible lenses that are hyped up by the YouTube influencers.

For the last 5 or 6 years I've been selling lenses, cameras etc at the local Camera Fair that's held 4 times a year. I have 5 meters of table, with shelves ( costing £70 for the day ) I fill my Toyota Landcruiser to the roof with stuff. I regularly made over £200, sometimes £500. The last two sales were bad. The one 6 months ago I took £30, the last one I didn't sell a thing. And the Camera Fair was full of punters, who were only buying the 'special' lenses - and only after haggling a severe discount. There wasn't a stallholder there that 'had a good day'.
The interest in the more common, but still good, lenses and cameras has vanished. Things like Zuiko 135 / 2.8, Rokkor 55 / 1.4 aren't even looked at. ( I actually bought a very nice German made Planar 50 / 1.8 for £15 off a dealer deperate to make enough to pay for his tables! )

Maybe the market has peaked? maybe everyone who has an interest in vintage stuff has now got everything they are likely to want? or...the supply of vintage stuff has peaked, the attics and cupboards of dead relatives have now been cleared and there is now a surplus of common stuff, even the good common stuff, and the prices have crashed. There's anothe Camera Fair in two weeks time, I might not go as a seller, I just don't have anything 'rare & collectible' - I just have good condition ordinary stuff that has become unsaleable, at any price.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Phalbert wrote:
calvin83 wrote:
Yes. The price of some rare Canon FD lenses with aspherical element goes sky high as videographer are hunting for them. I have said few times in this forum. Wink


The reason why some videographer would prefer FDs? Sorry if you explained that already in the forum. In short?

D1N0, so it went for about $ 2000...

I am not videographer so I can't explain it. You may take a look at the following video.

https://youtu.be/v8Il_l3tu6Q


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lloydy wrote:
'Some' lenses and cameras are fetching crazy prices, but it is the rare and collectible lenses that are hyped up by the YouTube influencers.

For the last 5 or 6 years I've been selling lenses, cameras etc at the local Camera Fair that's held 4 times a year. I have 5 meters of table, with shelves ( costing £70 for the day ) I fill my Toyota Landcruiser to the roof with stuff. I regularly made over £200, sometimes £500. The last two sales were bad. The one 6 months ago I took £30, the last one I didn't sell a thing. And the Camera Fair was full of punters, who were only buying the 'special' lenses - and only after haggling a severe discount. There wasn't a stallholder there that 'had a good day'.
The interest in the more common, but still good, lenses and cameras has vanished. Things like Zuiko 135 / 2.8, Rokkor 55 / 1.4 aren't even looked at. ( I actually bought a very nice German made Planar 50 / 1.8 for £15 off a dealer deperate to make enough to pay for his tables! )

Maybe the market has peaked? maybe everyone who has an interest in vintage stuff has now got everything they are likely to want? or...the supply of vintage stuff has peaked, the attics and cupboards of dead relatives have now been cleared and there is now a surplus of common stuff, even the good common stuff, and the prices have crashed. There's anothe Camera Fair in two weeks time, I might not go as a seller, I just don't have anything 'rare & collectible' - I just have good condition ordinary stuff that has become unsaleable, at any price.


It is quite possible that only a dwindling number of people are still interested in shooting with legacy lenses, and that those who still do indeed now already have most of what they want/need.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lloydy wrote:
'Some' lenses and cameras are fetching crazy prices, but it is the rare and collectible lenses that are hyped up by the YouTube influencers.

For the last 5 or 6 years I've been selling lenses, cameras etc at the local Camera Fair that's held 4 times a year. I have 5 meters of table, with shelves ( costing £70 for the day ) I fill my Toyota Landcruiser to the roof with stuff. I regularly made over £200, sometimes £500. The last two sales were bad. The one 6 months ago I took £30, the last one I didn't sell a thing. And the Camera Fair was full of punters, who were only buying the 'special' lenses - and only after haggling a severe discount. There wasn't a stallholder there that 'had a good day'.
The interest in the more common, but still good, lenses and cameras has vanished. Things like Zuiko 135 / 2.8, Rokkor 55 / 1.4 aren't even looked at. ( I actually bought a very nice German made Planar 50 / 1.8 for £15 off a dealer deperate to make enough to pay for his tables! )

Maybe the market has peaked? maybe everyone who has an interest in vintage stuff has now got everything they are likely to want? or...the supply of vintage stuff has peaked, the attics and cupboards of dead relatives have now been cleared and there is now a surplus of common stuff, even the good common stuff, and the prices have crashed. There's anothe Camera Fair in two weeks time, I might not go as a seller, I just don't have anything 'rare & collectible' - I just have good condition ordinary stuff that has become unsaleable, at any price.


I think that there are several different factors and user groups in play. I follow the groups: "Adapted Lenses" and the Sony, Nikon, Canon, L-mount mirrorless forums on DPReview as my intake. Here is my view of the situation:

The film hipsters that grew up in a digital world and wanted to try analog photography have in much done that. Film and development have also gone up in price quite much during the Corona years, making it even more expensive now. And prices in general on electricity and food and the economic uncertainty of the future makes people buy less things they don't need (all "stuff sale is down). The money people still do spend seems to go to experiences like concerts, vacation abroad etc, since they are allowed out again. So stuff sales has taken a double hit with both the refocus from the sitting at home Corona years over to experiences and also the economic uncertainty where people hold on to their money harder in general.

The video people that like to have a full set of lenses that fits together (a group that likes Minolta for their uniform color rendering and probably bought brick and mortar lenses), have what they need now of the brick and mortar stuff.

So does the stills people on the biggest system: Sony. Sony sells about 1 to 1.5 million mirrorless bodys per year (crop + FF combined) so the installed base is large. Sony FF users have been adapting manual focus vintage lenses since 2013 much since there weren't that many native options in the early years of E-mount, but now Sony FF people are swimming in native autofocus lenses, a fair bit over 100 have been released with AF and a large bit over 100 additional ones with manual focus (this is FF, APS-C that I don't follow comes on top of this). And both in MF and AF there are quite cheap ones, that outclass vintage lenses and frankly are cheaper for used copies than some vintage lenses (that also are used).

Canon mirrorless shooters don't seem too interested in vintage manual focus gear at all, maybe since their autofocus EF-lenses adapt so well even those from 1987 when EF was introduced, so they can get cheap vintage rendering autofocus glass. Canon also sells about the same volume as Sony per year in mirrorless (crop + FF combined again, where the RF system only has been around since 2019 as the first full year so not as large installed FF base as Sony).

Nikon mirrorless sales are about 250.000 bodys per year and Panasonic does about the same in volume. This is crop and FF combined. And the first full year was 2019 for Nikon Z and Panasonic L (Leica and Sigma L-mount body sales are probably under 100.000 per year together). The L-mount native lens catalogue is quite well built out also so they don't seem too interested in vintage lenses.

A few Fuji GFX users are still using brick and mortar vintage lenses as replacement for the lack of native options since many vintage FF lenses can illuminate the larger GFX sensor into the corners. But in numbers there probably aren't that many bodys out there, Fuji sells about 500.000 mirrorless bodys per year (crop + GFX combined).

Newcomers in photography tend to seek the easiest path to fame and glory and want the unicorn that will make their images pop like no one else's. One can see that in how they buy gear like throwing insane money on specific "trendy" vintage lenses and other "must have" hardware and also how they buy software that are AI driven that promise better than human "one click" editing. They want quick fixes to get as many likes as possible and don't want to learn photography the long way.

And sure I must admit that I am also partly in several of the described groups above. I use Sony FF since 2015, I have too many lenses and also to much different software programs than I really need. When it comes to vintage lenses I shot Minolta SR-mount (MC/MD) lenses and for me it is a retro journey since Minolta was what I started with in 1980 when I took my first images. So it is fun to reuse the same gear in much to see if I have become a better photographer, and I like the vintage rendering those old lenses gives even on digital, and it is also fun to own gear that I dreamed about when I was young but then couldn't afford. I also have extended into M42 mount since with the Minolta P-adapter I can get them to become SR-mount and by that fit both on my film bodys and via adapter on my digital Sony body.

You quote prices in pound so I believe you are in England, sad that you left the EU, I will need to pay customs and VAT even on used gear if I would buy anything from you.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
lattesweden wrote:
...
And sure I must admit that I am also partly in several of the described groups above. I use Sony FF since 2015, I have too many lenses and also to much different software programs than I really need. When it comes to vintage lenses I shot Minolta SR-mount (MC/MD) lenses and for me it is a retro journey since Minolta was what I started with in 1980 when I took my first images. So it is fun to reuse the same gear in much to see if I have become a better photographer, and I like the vintage rendering those old lenses gives even on digital, and it is also fun to own gear that I dreamed about when I was young but then couldn't afford. I also have extended into M42 mount since with the Minolta P-adapter I can get them to become SR-mount and by that fit both on my film bodys and via adapter on my digital Sony body.

You quote prices in pound so I believe you are in England, sad that you left the EU, I will need to pay customs and VAT even on used gear if I would buy anything from you.


Same here too. I started with Minolta SR-mount lenses and X-series cameras and rather than switch to autofocus I decided to collect the Minolta ROKKOR MF lenses when they were going cheap some 30~ish years ago. I've never really liked autofocus so happily stuck with those ROKKOR lenses when (finally!) the SONY A7 series bodies came on the market.

I am an EU citizen living in the UK, and once I could foresee the unfortunate but inevitable outcome of the Brexit negotiations I got as many of the lenses still missing from my collection from the EU (mostly Germany) whilst the UK was still in the customs union (the more unusual ROKKOR lenses are not really available in the UK in general). Doing the same now that the UK is outside of the customs union would be financial madness.

I've learnt to service the ROKKOR lenses myself, so as long as mirrorless digital cameras suitable for use with those lenses stay available, I'll be OK for quite a while... Wink


PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
On the other hand zooms are still cheap https://youtu.be/Sjo0HvjDSwo I don't think Kai and Lok will change it much with this video Wink

What they're overlooking is that Tamron 03A was a week's wages when it was new. It was never a "$5" lens, and still isn't, in my view. Only reason they're so cheap is Tamron sold a ton of them and for the past 15 years or so they've been getting sold off again and again from estate sales, old inventory, etc, so creating an ongoing glut on the market.
Hell, when I was bopping around with my OM-1, I was quite happy with a 103A, and got some excellent pics from it.
At least Kai didn't diss it entirely - it's "OK". Smile


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
people asking absurd prices does not mean someone will PAY those Wink

the real current going rate for the 55/1.2 asph seems to be around 2k, and has been for two years.
most prices, also specifically of FD gear, have remained stable in the past few years, or even gone down slightly if you watch ebay. you can still buy a 5o/1.4 for less than 5o eur.
but yes, others have gone completely crazy. videographers wanting a complete set, or collectors wanting the same (plus in pristine state) might be a reason; and of course, high prices might prompt previous owners to offer their lenses for sale...
that said, the 55/1.2 asph [i]is [/i]a tremendous lens, still today, and always has been expensive ("expensive" being a relative term, of course. if you find this thread ten years on, you'll drool over someone in 2o22 paying "just" 7k for the lens...). it's also is much rarer than its alternatives.

britain specifically chose to cut itself off from the entire european market, fully knowing that import fees would be imposed. so clearly their prices will drop, since a few hundred million potential buyers are now gone, or only interested if the deal is right (i.e. very rare items, or 25+% off, which is what customs and VAT impose).
from the european perspective, british offers often look cheap, until you factor that in...

as for prices nobody will pay - I look through ebay sometimes, and it's mostly dead, or filled with fixed-price ad beyond all reason (the auction closing prices for 135 mm Leica M lenses begin at 5o € in good state. yet there is no fixed-price offer below twice that!
at the same time, with ebay fees ~4x what they were ~2o years ago, sellers understandably move to free platforms. and there, they apparently hope to squeeze prices up. I've seen ads for Canon T7os for 4oo € (when they're worth 5). not sure whether that's greed, stupidity, or the belief that the camera once cost that much when it was new, and lack of research before posting. but highly unlikely that someone will actually pay them that amount.

oh, and if you really want to see shocking numbers, look up the 24/1.4 FD


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I made a list for the most wanted FD lenses:

New FD 14mm f/2.8L
FD 24mm f/1.4 S.S.C. Aspherical
New FD 24mm f/1.4L
55mm f/1.2 S.S.C. AL
55mm f/1.2 S.S.C. Aspherical
85mm f/1.2 S.S.C. Aspherical


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
I made a list for the most wanted FD lenses:

New FD 14mm f/2.8L
FD 24mm f/1.4 S.S.C. Aspherical
New FD 24mm f/1.4L
55mm f/1.2 S.S.C. AL
55mm f/1.2 S.S.C. Aspherical
85mm f/1.2 S.S.C. Aspherical


Also in the next tier, the 17mm f/4 S.S.C., 135mm f/2 & 100mm f/2 all Sell fast and often go for over-heated prices. Worst is the 17mm as the identical FDn version is less than half the price…

On the other hand, the 20-35L & 80-200L seem to have lost some value over the last few years. As have some of the more run of the mill Contax fit Zeiss lenses.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lloydy wrote:
'Some' lenses and cameras are fetching crazy prices, but it is the rare and collectible lenses that are hyped up by the YouTube influencers.

For the last 5 or 6 years I've been selling lenses, cameras etc at the local Camera Fair that's held 4 times a year. I have 5 meters of table, with shelves ( costing £70 for the day ) I fill my Toyota Landcruiser to the roof with stuff. I regularly made over £200, sometimes £500. The last two sales were bad. The one 6 months ago I took £30, the last one I didn't sell a thing. And the Camera Fair was full of punters, who were only buying the 'special' lenses - and only after haggling a severe discount. There wasn't a stallholder there that 'had a good day'.
The interest in the more common, but still good, lenses and cameras has vanished. Things like Zuiko 135 / 2.8, Rokkor 55 / 1.4 aren't even looked at. ( I actually bought a very nice German made Planar 50 / 1.8 for £15 off a dealer deperate to make enough to pay for his tables! )

Maybe the market has peaked? maybe everyone who has an interest in vintage stuff has now got everything they are likely to want? or...the supply of vintage stuff has peaked, the attics and cupboards of dead relatives have now been cleared and there is now a surplus of common stuff, even the good common stuff, and the prices have crashed. There's anothe Camera Fair in two weeks time, I might not go as a seller, I just don't have anything 'rare & collectible' - I just have good condition ordinary stuff that has become unsaleable, at any price.


Interesting but, I have dozens of vintage lenses and cameras, I’ve hung out with lots of people who have an interest in vintage gear and film shooting, but I’ve never encountered anyone who has been to a camera fair. Nor have I even considered doing so myself. I’d suspect that would apply even more to younger people too, where everting comes from the internet via a delivery van or scooter.

I also see that camera usage has changed. Kids use phones for wide and zoomed shots but also carry a film camera which will be a compact or just 50mm on an SLR. They mostly don’t seem to want to be weighed down with more than that, so no lens buying. Last time I dropped a few films off in east London there was a queue of 5 ahead of me - something I’ve not seen for a long time!
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