| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 3678
Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
|
 Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:33 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
tb_a wrote:
| Pancolart wrote: |
| cropshy wrote: |
| Does anyone know if the Mamiya/Sekor 55mm f1.4 is the same as the Rikenon 55mm f1.4 with the Nikon mount? |
It's not. Neither optically, neither Gehäuse. Rikenon is IMHO fully Nikon made lens. |
"Rikenon" is the name for lenses made by or for RICOH. If it would have been made by NIKON it would rather be called "Nikkor".
However, the 55 mm Auto Rikenon f/1.4, 5 groups 6 elements was developed for the Ricoh Singlex SLR introduced in 1962 which used to have a Nikon F mount. Please refer to the Camerapedia.
Regards, Thomas
_________________
Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6602
Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
luisalegria wrote:
The 55/1.4 Rikenon in Nikon mount on the early Singlex may not be the same design as the more common Rikenon 55/1.4 m42 in the later Singlex and TLS.
The later m42 is certainly a 7 element lens. I have opened and fixed several for resale.
the m42 Rikenon is also very similar to various 55/1.4 from Cosina branded as Cosinon, Argus and Exaktar.
I have also opened and fixed several of these. In some cases elements can be exchanged between them, thats how similar they are.
Cosina was a major manufacturer since the late 1960's. Almost all their production was rebranded however.
They almost owned the store brand SLR business and even got several name brands started in the industry. The Ricoh Singlex/TLS is a Cosina design and may even have been made by Cosina. The design is so similar to known Cosinas that I was even able to take a prism from a TLS to put into an Exakta Twin TL (well known as a Cosina product) that I am fixing.
_________________
I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
memetph
Joined: 01 Dec 2013
Posts: 940
Location: Poland
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
memetph wrote:
Thank you . It sounds like you have good informations. The problem is that you can find different informations on the web about those 55mmf 1.4.
I have a Cosinon. It has the same flat rear lens that the lenses which are supposed to have been produced by Tomioka or for Mamiya. Is it possible that thoses 55mm shared the same design?
The japenese optical industry of that time is a little bit a labyrinth with a lot of subcontracts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3705
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pancolart wrote:
| tb_a wrote: |
| Pancolart wrote: |
| cropshy wrote: |
| Does anyone know if the Mamiya/Sekor 55mm f1.4 is the same as the Rikenon 55mm f1.4 with the Nikon mount? |
It's not. Neither optically, neither Gehäuse. Rikenon is IMHO fully Nikon made lens. |
"Rikenon" is the name for lenses made by or for RICOH. If it would have been made by NIKON it would rather be called "Nikkor".
However, the 55 mm Auto Rikenon f/1.4, 5 groups 6 elements was developed for the Ricoh Singlex SLR introduced in 1962 which used to have a Nikon F mount. Please refer to the Camerapedia.
Regards, Thomas |
I don't need to. I have all those lenses plus opened most of them. Nikon mount Rikenon has practically nothing to do with M42 Rikenon (or any other 1.4/55mm M42).
Simple check: Nikon mount Rikenon has rear element diameter as Nikkor 1.4/50mm lenses. M42 Rikenon has much smaller. Rikenon with Nikon mount is made from Nikon materials, parts and paint used.
_________________
---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 3678
Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
tb_a wrote:
| Pancolart wrote: |
Nikon mount Rikenon has practically nothing to do with M42 Rikenon (or any other 1.4/55mm M42).
|
That's right. Nobody said so.
The funny thing is that Mamiya built both the Nikkorex F and the Ricoh Singlex Camera inkluding the 55mm lenses.
Ricoh bought the Camera from Mamiya and not from Nikon. The second Ricoh SLR model with M42 lens was already built by Ricoh themselves. There are also some rumors that Tomioka have built the lens for Mamiya but up to now there is no proof for this.
See also here: http://www.cameraguild.jp/nekosan/singrex.htm
_________________
Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3705
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Pancolart wrote:
Rikenon, Mamiya, Tomioka, Nikon? I just finished Rikenon 1.4/55mm (Nikon mount) CLA. Very interesting:
Rikenon has additional front element compared to Nikon Nikkor-S 1.4/50mm or Tomioka (Mamiya, Cosina) 1.4/55mm. 7 reflections (front system only)!
Making it quite genuine.
So looking for a relative I stumble upon NIKKOR-S 1.4/5.8cm design:
http://imaging.nikon.com/history/nikkor/40/
And to incite your imagination i quote from: http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/50mmnikkor/index2.htm
| Quote: |
Nikon Nikkor-S Auto 1:1.4 f=5.8cm standard lens
By the end of 1959 this mysterious lens was introduced. Some people believe that this lens, having 7 elements in 5 groups, wasn't produced by Nikon itself. This lens had a relatively short life. In less than 2 years it disappeared from the market. Total production is a mere 39,000 lenses |
This is how Rikenon looks from inside:
_________________
---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 561
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
dimitrygo wrote:
| Pancolart wrote: |
Rikenon, Mamiya, Tomioka, Nikon? I just finished Rikenon 1.4/55mm (Nikon mount) CLA. Very interesting:
Rikenon has additional front element compared to Nikon Nikkor-S 1.4/50mm or Tomioka (Mamiya, Cosina) 1.4/55mm. 7 reflections (front system only)!
Making it quite genuine.
So looking for a relative I stumble upon NIKKOR-S 1.4/5.8cm design:
http://imaging.nikon.com/history/nikkor/40/
|
I've already read somewhere about possible connections between these lenses. But the Rikenon's rear element looks completely flat while the Nikkor's one is convex, at least on the diagram.
Can you please elaborate more about Rikenon disassembling? I have this lens with a very stiff focus ring so I would need to lubricate it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3705
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pancolart wrote:
| dimitrygo wrote: |
| Pancolart wrote: |
Rikenon, Mamiya, Tomioka, Nikon? I just finished Rikenon 1.4/55mm (Nikon mount) CLA. Very interesting:
Rikenon has additional front element compared to Nikon Nikkor-S 1.4/50mm or Tomioka (Mamiya, Cosina) 1.4/55mm. 7 reflections (front system only)!
Making it quite genuine.
So looking for a relative I stumble upon NIKKOR-S 1.4/5.8cm design:
http://imaging.nikon.com/history/nikkor/40/
|
I've already read somewhere about possible connections between these lenses. But the Rikenon's rear element looks completely flat while the Nikkor's one is convex, at least on the diagram.
Can you please elaborate more about Rikenon disassembling? I have this lens with a very stiff focus ring so I would need to lubricate it. |
Indeed, it's flat. Very comparable to Nikkor-S 1.4/50mm. Both have rear element width around 34mm.
For instance Rikenon M42 1.4/55m or Tomioka 1.4/55mm have rear element width: 30mm
Regarding disassemble: unscrew infinity blocker found on focusing ring (it is the only screw there). Focus past infinity and proceed carefully. When released be careful to mark release point so you'll be able to put back correctly. Important: Infinity blocker screw isn't typical and has counter part (a nut) on inner side of focusing ring. If this nut drops off i think it's best to glue it on correct spot before reassemble. If you need additional info let me know. I had to clean aperture blades too.
_________________
---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 561
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
dimitrygo wrote:
| Pancolart wrote: |
| Regarding disassemble: unscrew infinity blocker found on focusing ring (it is the only screw there). Focus past infinity and proceed carefully. When released be careful to mark release point so you'll be able to put back correctly. Important: Infinity blocker screw isn't typical and has counter part (a nut) on inner side of focusing ring. If this nut drops off i think it's best to glue it on correct spot before reassemble. If you need additional info let me know. I had to clean aperture blades too. |
Is the helicoid exposed at least partially after removing the optical block? It could be easier to access it this way. Did you need to remove the name plate ring or just unscrew the whole front lens barrel? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3705
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pancolart wrote:
| dimitrygo wrote: |
| Pancolart wrote: |
| Regarding disassemble: unscrew infinity blocker found on focusing ring (it is the only screw there). Focus past infinity and proceed carefully. When released be careful to mark release point so you'll be able to put back correctly. Important: Infinity blocker screw isn't typical and has counter part (a nut) on inner side of focusing ring. If this nut drops off i think it's best to glue it on correct spot before reassemble. If you need additional info let me know. I had to clean aperture blades too. |
Is the helicoid exposed at least partially after removing the optical block? It could be easier to access it this way. Did you need to remove the name plate ring or just unscrew the whole front lens barrel? |
Possibly so. But by minimal margin. It might enable you to unscrew chrome front filter edge giving you even more space to lube helicoid. Name plate removal will only enable you to reach optics internally.
_________________
---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 561
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
dimitrygo wrote:
| Pancolart wrote: |
| dimitrygo wrote: |
| Pancolart wrote: |
| Regarding disassemble: unscrew infinity blocker found on focusing ring (it is the only screw there). Focus past infinity and proceed carefully. When released be careful to mark release point so you'll be able to put back correctly. Important: Infinity blocker screw isn't typical and has counter part (a nut) on inner side of focusing ring. If this nut drops off i think it's best to glue it on correct spot before reassemble. If you need additional info let me know. I had to clean aperture blades too. |
Is the helicoid exposed at least partially after removing the optical block? It could be easier to access it this way. Did you need to remove the name plate ring or just unscrew the whole front lens barrel? |
Possibly so. But by minimal margin. It might enable you to unscrew chrome front filter edge giving you even more space to lube helicoid. Name plate removal will only enable you to reach optics internally. |
Thanks, I will start with this approach and see if it is enough. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cropshy
Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Virginia, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
cropshy wrote:
I've got two Nikon mount Rikenon 55mm f1.4 lenses. Both are cosmetically nice, but one has oily aperture blades that only barely move. I'm debating about whether or not to disassemble it to attempt a cleaning. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3705
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pancolart wrote:
| cropshy wrote: |
| I've got two Nikon mount Rikenon 55mm f1.4 lenses. Both are cosmetically nice, but one has oily aperture blades that only barely move. I'm debating about whether or not to disassemble it to attempt a cleaning. |
You're lucky to have two! I treasure this lens high. If you're not experienced in servicing lens i advice not to proceed.
_________________
---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hifisapi
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 941
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hifisapi wrote:
| cropshy wrote: |
| I've got two Nikon mount Rikenon 55mm f1.4 lenses. Both are cosmetically nice, but one has oily aperture blades that only barely move. I'm debating about whether or not to disassemble it to attempt a cleaning. |
I would have it serviced by an experienced technician, preferably by someone experienced in that model.
_________________
===========
ACQUIRED OVER 30 YEARS:
Cameras: DSLR=Pentax istDS FILM=Pentax SP, SP-F, ESII, SP1000, KX, K2
Lenses : Pentax M42 = Super Multi Coated Takumars 50/1.4 55/1.8 100/4-BELLOWS 500/4.5 1000/8 135-600/6.7 Pentax PK= SMC Pentax-Ks K17/4-FF Fisheye K18/3.5 K20/4 K24/3.5 K28/3.5 K28/2 K35/3.5 K35/2 K50/1.2 K50/1.4K 50/4-MACROK 55/1.8 K85/1.8 K100/4-MACRO K100/4-BELLOWS K105/2.8 K120/2.8 K135/3.5 K135/2.5 K150/4 K200/4 K400/5.6 K45-125/4K 85-210/4.5 Pentax PKM = SMC Pentax-M M40/2.8-Pancake M50/1.4 M75-150/4 M80-200/4.5 Pentax PKA= SMC Pentax-A A15/3.5 A50/2.8-MACRO A28/2 A35/2 A50/1.4 A135/2.8 A200/4 A*300/4 A35-105/3.5 A24-50/4 A70-210/4 TAMRON AD2= SP80-200/2.8 SP180/2.5 TOKINA AT-X PK= ATX28-85/3.5-4.5 ATX35-70/2.8 ATX60-120/2.8 ATX80-200/2.8 ATX100-300/4 ATX90/2.5 MACRO KIRON-LESTER DINE PK = 105/2.8-MACRO VIVITAR PK = 135/2.8-MACRO 28-85/4 NOFLEXAR AUTOBELLOWS PK = 60/4 105/4 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cropshy
Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Virginia, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
cropshy wrote:
| Pancolart wrote: |
| cropshy wrote: |
| I've got two Nikon mount Rikenon 55mm f1.4 lenses. Both are cosmetically nice, but one has oily aperture blades that only barely move. I'm debating about whether or not to disassemble it to attempt a cleaning. |
You're lucky to have two! I treasure this lens high. If you're not experienced in servicing lens i advice not to proceed. |
I certainly don't possess the needed technical skills necessary for lens repair, so I'm not going to attempt it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
woodrim wrote:
I see in this thread that it has been four years already since I got my Mamiya-Sekor. It was one of my first few lenses and took a back seat as I collected and fell in love with others. I had decided to sell it and took it out this past weekend to get ready for sale. I decided to try it on the NEX first. Big mistake. Now I have one less lens for sale. In general it is probably a mistake to use a lens just prior to putting up for sale, but this one really impressed me. Seems even better on the NEX.
_________________
Regards,
Woodrim |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 8979
Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
mo wrote:
I wouldn't call it a mistake I would call it wisdom...saves you from having to buy the lens again.  Will you be posting up a set taken with this lens and camera?
_________________
Moira, Moderator 
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
Canon FL 58/1.2,Canon FL85/1.8,Canon FL 100/3.5,Canon SSC 2.8/100 ,Konica AR 100/2.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
woodrim wrote:
| mo wrote: |
| I wouldn't call it a mistake I would call it wisdom...saves you from having to buy the lens again. Will you be posting up a set taken with this lens and camera? |
Well, now I suppose I should. Need to give the lens a proper go this weekend. The pictures I took were just to test wide open - weather and light were poor, but thought lens did very well.
_________________
Regards,
Woodrim |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013
Posts: 6005
Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Oldhand wrote:
Oh yes - rather well indeed 
OH |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 8979
Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
mo wrote:
I can't quite tell from this distance but how sharp are those rain drops?  taking photos after the rain can be a lot of fun.
_________________
Moira, Moderator
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
Canon FL 58/1.2,Canon FL85/1.8,Canon FL 100/3.5,Canon SSC 2.8/100 ,Konica AR 100/2.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
woodrim wrote:
| mo wrote: |
| I can't quite tell from this distance but how sharp are those rain drops? taking photos after the rain can be a lot of fun. |
_________________
Regards,
Woodrim |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Layer-cake
Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 560
Location: Cape Town
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Layer-cake wrote:
just invade anyone missed this, its rather interesting:
forum.mflenses.com/hidden-true-tomioka-chinon-55-1-4-t65047.html
I've become rather excited about this lens from all the lovely comments and photos everyone has added in and I'm on the lookout for one locally. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 8979
Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
mo wrote:
There are some nice details in the rain drop....what a great lens.
_________________
Moira, Moderator
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
Canon FL 58/1.2,Canon FL85/1.8,Canon FL 100/3.5,Canon SSC 2.8/100 ,Konica AR 100/2.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 4060
Location: Charleston
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
woodrim wrote:
Went out in the yard again late today and took some more WO for MO.
_________________
Regards,
Woodrim |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013
Posts: 6005
Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Oldhand wrote:
[quote="woodrim"]Went out in the yard again late today and took some more WO for MO.
Wo for Mo........
Way to go!
OH |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
Search
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
