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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just stubled upon the news that the well known web site Dpreview is going to be shut down very soon. That's pretty shocking, in view of the importance it acquired for amateur photographers as a knowledge base and a testing ground of techniques and skills.

Dpreview is sponsored by Amazon and has a gear promoting function which apparently does not fulfill at the required scale. So, this news has apparently little to do with the main question of this thread dealing with the fading life rhythm in Mflenses forum. It still has something to do. I lately saw communication getting sparser in dpreview threads, contest section getting thinner, etc. Those are indicators of a wider crisis of spare time and of lively interest. To be precise, the interest remains, but the impetus to put it into words and to spend time for communication is shrinking. In some way it is a large and seemingly shared phenomenon, in spite of cardinal differences between the models of a huge sponsored site as dpreview and a small community forum as mflenses.

What would remain of this very vibrant enthousiast strive for the knowledge if a couple more large photo forums are considered equally loss-making and not worth maintaining? Where would all the knowledge go feeding further interest and guiding non-evident choices?


PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is no archive.org for entire websites. I think the difficulty is copying and maintaining the website software, even for a read-only copy.

Amazon will surely sell for the right price. Packaging could be big problems.

HTTrack has possibilities. There could be copyright issues making such a backup publicly available.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There are a lot of lurkers here- those who read only and do not take part in discussion.
It's actually a common thing with most bulletin board type sites.

Perhaps it's a generational thing with the format not being that attractive to some.

I still see this board go through cycles of relative quiet to fairly heavy discussion.
I can't say what all the factors are, simply because I'm not very well informed on the subject.
Personally, I spend a lot of time here looking up things, and reading- more so than I participate in discussions.

Things are probably still going to change yet, especially with the advances in smart phone camera technology.
I often wonder how long dslr's and m/f lenses are going to remain usable. Hopefully the window is as long lasting as some of the better long lasting film cameras...

-D.S.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doc Sharptail wrote:
There are a lot of lurkers here- those who read only and do not take part in discussion.
It's actually a common thing with most bulletin board type sites.

Perhaps it's a generational thing with the format not being that attractive to some.

Yes. Ppl spend much more time on social media platforms than in forums.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
Doc Sharptail wrote:

Perhaps it's a generational thing with the format not being that attractive to some.

Yes. Ppl spend much more time on social media platforms than in forums.


I think one main reason is switch from computers to phones?


PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kansalliskala wrote:
calvin83 wrote:
Doc Sharptail wrote:

Perhaps it's a generational thing with the format not being that attractive to some.

Yes. Ppl spend much more time on social media platforms than in forums.


I think one main reason is switch from computers to phones?

I think so.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
Doc Sharptail wrote:
There are a lot of lurkers here- those who read only and do not take part in discussion.
It's actually a common thing with most bulletin board type sites.

Perhaps it's a generational thing with the format not being that attractive to some.

Yes. Ppl spend much more time on social media platforms than in forums.


I agree.

There has been a trend in on-line engagement, precipitated by first SMS texting, then social media and then the likes of twitter etc., where people now like the content to be short foremost. Memed, and very short, preferably accompanied by a trending "hilarious" or "shocking" image. Each to their own I suppose, but this leaves less and less space (time) for proper discussions and dissemination of knowledge, for which forums are more suited.

Needless to say this has precipitated, and will continue to do, a loss of general knowledge and a general dumbing down of ideas.

I won't comment on what I think this is doing to society at large, as that would make this thread take a political turn for which this isn't the appropriate forum.

I would like to remain optimistic, but unfortunately I fear many quality forums will disappear as their demographic changes, and slowly evaporates with time.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
alex ph wrote:

...
To be precise, the interest remains, but the impetus to put it into words and to spend time for communication is shrinking.


It is.

I have been trying to contribute meaningful information (at least meaningful to some), but then

1) constantly being harassed and attacked by one member and
2) the mods doing nothing about it

clearly has dimished my interest in comtributing to mflesenses.com.

S


PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think this is one of those sites where participants are expected to behave like courteous, well mannered adults, and the moderating is as minimal as possible. Whether that is the way to run things, I don't know.
I've been banned from f/b myself for stating honest opinion, with no arguments involved. I actually have very little interest in going back- which is sort of unfortunate. The platform was a good one for keeping up with family.

I'm hoping that interest in the use of m/f lenses continues to grow- there's still a lot of interesting glass out there.
Mr. Green

-D.S.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You've done your share of harasing too, so get off your high horse, or is it high mountain built of 1000 lens tests?

No one really cares....


PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's also true that when activitiy and feedback in the forum are high, you easier ignore some irritating or insulting posts because you have a more substantial positive response. When feedback is rare, disappointing and demotivating replies are more visible Crying or Very sad .


PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doc Sharptail wrote:
I think this is one of those sites where participants are expected to behave like courteous, well mannered adults, and the moderating is as minimal as possible. Whether that is the way to run things, I don't know.
I've been banned from f/b myself for stating honest opinion, with no arguments involved. I actually have very little interest in going back- which is sort of unfortunate. The platform was a good one for keeping up with family.

I'm hoping that interest in the use of m/f lenses continues to grow- there's still a lot of interesting glass out there.
Mr. Green

-D.S.


Yes, I have to agree with this.
As far as I can see, moderation here is minimal because there is an expectation that we treat each other with respect.
Secondly, we are here to discuss the merits, peculiarities, provenance and usefulness of the wide world of lenses.
Stick to those two tenets, and if tempted to head towards unpleasantness, simply bite your tongue.
Lenses are for using, and as photographers we all look for different things from a lens' rendering.
Hopefully the forum will continue to inform and illuminate.
Tom


PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I can remember when this forum started to go to shi&\^ for me....

There was a pleasant discussion going on about zoom lenses around 80-200mm and which were cheaper alternatives to the Zeiss Contax 4/80-200. I made the short, throwaway comment that I 'liked' the Konica Zoom Hexanon 80-200 and was also 'quite fond' of the Mamiya/Rolleinar/Tokina 4/80-200 and also made mention of the Vivitar Series 1 70-210 being a good one....

Immediately appears this know-it-all troll who informs mwe that I obviously hjadn't used the lenses I am talking about otherwise I would know that they were very inferior and if I knew what I was talking about, I would instead recommend some Canon FD or some Nikkor or something else this 'expert' had tested and declared to be among the best....

He was only looking at the extreme corners on a 24mp FF camera of course... If I didn't also use these narrow criteria and disagreed with his findings, then I was wrong and he would go away and shoot pointless boring tests just to 'prove' he was right....

After he repeated this behaviour a few dozen times, it had kinda killed any enjoyment one could have with this forum....

Hasn't stopped me liking and enjoying my good old Zoom-Hexanon 80-200 though...


PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
NOW HEAR THIS! IGNORE THE TROLLS! BE YOUR OWN JUDGE!


PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I know, it just became overwhelming, you literally could not mention almost any lens without fear of being contradicted with meaningless corner crops and endless bloviation about technical minutiae.

I said the Xenar was a good Tessar variant the other week.... Cue thread contradicting me.... That must have taken considerable time and effort to do, and utterly pointless unless one is obsessed with scoring points in some ridiculous mental game playing out in their head...

The ego of the man is stupendous, to think a couple of crappy test shots with one or two exemplars of an entire family of lenses could prove something meaningful.

I suspect mental health issues including OCD and no small amount of egomania.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's not hard to search for examples where the quality of discussion is going downhill:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I leave that for ocd wierdos

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
You really are an utter clown

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
There's probably a medical name for a compunction to obsess about pointless minutiae....

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
if only your ability matched your ego

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
a childish swine

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
you're such a coward

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
a liar and troll like you

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
you don't understand the first thing about composition

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
you are making an utter and total fool of yourself and making it extremely obvious you have zero knowledge of this subject

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
How pathetic, you do your usual obnoxious troll act

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
you keep on humiliating yourself because you talk a lot but haven't done the work to back it up

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
a truly ludicrous statement from a scumbag troll who clearly hasn't got a clue

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
what an obnoxious piece of shit you really are

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Fuck off

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
You can both fuck off


At least for me, the contributions of members you constantly try to offend have been interesting and useful, so maybe take your own advice for a change?

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
just STFU, everything would be much better


PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
PMSL, you can fuck off too then.

Honestly, how one-sided could you possibly be...

I'd take it personally if I gave a shit what you think.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
well, the forum is kinda of going to a AA meeting (we all know that from yankee movies, dont we..)

" I'm **** and im ______ .. "

Everyone..: " .. hellooOOoo.."


PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have a sudden urge to command my browser to read aloud MartinV-s collection. Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I know, it just became overwhelming, you literally could not mention almost any lens without fear of being contradicted with meaningless corner crops and endless bloviation about technical minutiae.

I said the Xenar was a good Tessar variant the other week.... Cue thread contradicting me.... That must have taken considerable time and effort to do, and utterly pointless unless one is obsessed with scoring points in some ridiculous mental game playing out in their head...

The ego of the man is stupendous, to think a couple of crappy test shots with one or two exemplars of an entire family of lenses could prove something meaningful.

I suspect mental health issues including OCD and no small amount of egomania.


Ian, from my professional relationship with the Swiss motorway authority I can tell you, Swiss tend to be pedantic. And because of that, they also tend to feel that they are right. That can be annoying, but it has its positive sides. If they would be different, we´d probably have Swiss gas grills or other nonsense instead of Swiss watches. I learned quite a bit from them, even if they appear condescending at times. It strikes me that Stefan is one of these role model perfectionists so typical for their country. But as it often is the case with perfectionism, he´s concentrating on a few aspects of what he thinks is qualifying a lens as a good one, being on the other hand ignorant of many other aspects beyond mere technical data that still makes a lens highly useful for someone else. Like you, who never bothered with corner pixel peeping, rather looking beyond technical aspects, rather trying to find ways to exploit that imperfections in a lens to your advantage in composing an image. Both of you are right, in your own way, but approaching the topic from opposite directions with high speed and usually colliding somewhere in the middle. And let me tell you one thing: from an outside onlooker, it appears there is more than one guy with a big ego.

I said it already once, it would do us all good here if you two could finally begin to appreciate each others proficiency, and appreciate that there is no such thing as the ultimate truth. Stefan does his lens reviews using up at least half a page on the screen, whereas you can bring things to a well proven point in less that half a sentence. Let him do his thing, while you do yours. This is not a competition, and therefore neither of you can win. I understand that you´d likely will never become close friends. So I suggest you respectfully ignore each other for the time being - that is, until we finally found a place to be well equipped with excellent wine, whisky, beer and cigars, careful to take any sharp objects out before we lock you two in there for a weekend and see if there was some common ground to be found at last.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi,
does this fight still exists? Well i had at work (Real Life) too colleagues with very rough language. Sometimes they would just need a training to use more polite expressions and to stop using a Slang that hurts others.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I know, it just became overwhelming, you literally could not mention almost any lens without fear of being contradicted with meaningless corner crops and endless bloviation about technical minutiae.

I said the Xenar was a good Tessar variant the other week.... Cue thread contradicting me.... That must have taken considerable time and effort to do, and utterly pointless unless one is obsessed with scoring points in some ridiculous mental game playing out in their head...

The ego of the man is stupendous, to think a couple of crappy test shots with one or two exemplars of an entire family of lenses could prove something meaningful.

I suspect mental health issues including OCD and no small amount of egomania.


Ian, from my professional relationship with the Swiss motorway authority I can tell you, Swiss tend to be pedantic. And because of that, they also tend to feel that they are right. That can be annoying, but it has its positive sides. If they would be different, we´d probably have Swiss gas grills or other nonsense instead of Swiss watches. I learned quite a bit from them, even if they appear condescending at times. It strikes me that Stefan is one of these role model perfectionists so typical for their country. But as it often is the case with perfectionism, he´s concentrating on a few aspects of what he thinks is qualifying a lens as a good one, being on the other hand ignorant of many other aspects beyond mere technical data that still makes a lens highly useful for someone else. Like you, who never bothered with corner pixel peeping, rather looking beyond technical aspects, rather trying to find ways to exploit that imperfections in a lens to your advantage in composing an image. Both of you are right, in your own way, but approaching the topic from opposite directions with high speed and usually colliding somewhere in the middle. And let me tell you one thing: from an outside onlooker, it appears there is more than one guy with a big ego.

I said it already once, it would do us all good here if you two could finally begin to appreciate each others proficiency, and appreciate that there is no such thing as the ultimate truth. Stefan does his lens reviews using up at least half a page on the screen, whereas you can bring things to a well proven point in less that half a sentence. Let him do his thing, while you do yours. This is not a competition, and therefore neither of you can win. I understand that you´d likely will never become close friends. So I suggest you respectfully ignore each other for the time being - that is, until we finally found a place to be well equipped with excellent wine, whisky, beer and cigars, careful to take any sharp objects out before we lock you two in there for a weekend and see if there was some common ground to be found at last.


I'm going to read this again more than once and take it to heart as it is clearlye xcellent advice and very well intentioned,. Vielen Danke.

I shall do my utmost from now on to be a better citizen. Smile


PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:


I'm going to read this again more than once and take it to heart as it is clearlye xcellent advice and very well intentioned,. Vielen Danke.

I shall do my utmost from now on to be a better citizen. Smile


And I´m damn relieved that you take it in such a positive way, I was worried both of you would send me to hell for giving smart-assed advice to two forum oldtimers as a way-out-of-its-place newbie Wink


PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
MartinV wrote:
It's not hard to search for examples where the quality of discussion is going downhill


Some people simply don't know how to conduct a technical or scientific discussion. When they do not have valid technical arguments to defend their point, they immediately resort to personal aggression, including using profanities. This type of behavior is extremely unpleasant, but it becomes unbearable when the person is dishonest to the point of not hesitating to fake photos to "prove" his point. It came as a shock to me to discover that a certain person had taken pictures with a Minolta "beercan" and presented them as if they were taken with a CZJ Sonnar 135mm F3.5.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I know, it just became overwhelming, you literally could not mention almost any lens without fear of being contradicted with meaningless corner crops and endless bloviation about technical minutiae.

I said the Xenar was a good Tessar variant the other week.... Cue thread contradicting me.... That must have taken considerable time and effort to do, and utterly pointless unless one is obsessed with scoring points in some ridiculous mental game playing out in their head...

The ego of the man is stupendous, to think a couple of crappy test shots with one or two exemplars of an entire family of lenses could prove something meaningful.

I suspect mental health issues including OCD and no small amount of egomania.


Ian, from my professional relationship with the Swiss motorway authority I can tell you, Swiss tend to be pedantic. And because of that, they also tend to feel that they are right. That can be annoying, but it has its positive sides. If they would be different, we´d probably have Swiss gas grills or other nonsense instead of Swiss watches. I learned quite a bit from them, even if they appear condescending at times. It strikes me that Stefan is one of these role model perfectionists so typical for their country. But as it often is the case with perfectionism, he´s concentrating on a few aspects of what he thinks is qualifying a lens as a good one, being on the other hand ignorant of many other aspects beyond mere technical data that still makes a lens highly useful for someone else. Like you, who never bothered with corner pixel peeping, rather looking beyond technical aspects, rather trying to find ways to exploit that imperfections in a lens to your advantage in composing an image. Both of you are right, in your own way, but approaching the topic from opposite directions with high speed and usually colliding somewhere in the middle. And let me tell you one thing: from an outside onlooker, it appears there is more than one guy with a big ego.

I said it already once, it would do us all good here if you two could finally begin to appreciate each others proficiency, and appreciate that there is no such thing as the ultimate truth. Stefan does his lens reviews using up at least half a page on the screen, whereas you can bring things to a well proven point in less that half a sentence. Let him do his thing, while you do yours. This is not a competition, and therefore neither of you can win. I understand that you´d likely will never become close friends. So I suggest you respectfully ignore each other for the time being - that is, until we finally found a place to be well equipped with excellent wine, whisky, beer and cigars, careful to take any sharp objects out before we lock you two in there for a weekend and see if there was some common ground to be found at last.

Like 1

Well said!
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