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RSalles
Joined: 12 Aug 2012
Posts: 1372
Location: Brazil - RS / South
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 Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:42 pm Post subject: Good lens, but not Sonnar |
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RSalles wrote:
Well, there is a person who's selling a Pentacon 2.8/135 lens which has its Praktica Bayonet mount replaced by a M42 mount as it is a Sonnar 2.8/135 lens, see link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/M42-mount-Carl-Zeiss-Jena-Sonnar-MC-135mm-F2-8-L110584-/290840610338?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item43b7738622
I have exactly the same lens, i can say it's not a Sonnar, but a Pentacon lens.
What's your oppinion about this type of pratice?
Renato |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
It is extremely common to see PB Pentacons listed on ebay as Zeiss lenses, whether they says Pentacon or Zeiss on them, been going on for years, it's a trap for the uninformed. 
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fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Posts: 1974
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:08 am Post subject: |
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fermy wrote:
Obviously it's a dishonest practice as labeling is not shown and it is not a Zeiss lens. The feedback of this seller clearly says: stay away.
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cambug
Joined: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:35 am Post subject: |
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cambug wrote:
The lenses in B mount with a P marked are of Pentacon sourced, also, never heard of any Zeiss Jena 135mm Sonnar lens with f2.8 aperture. Earlier aluminum are f4 and later zebra and MC are of f3.5. The 135mm f2.8 are either Pentacon / Meyer or West German design. Look before you leap... |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 7794
Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/M42-mount-Carl-Zeiss-Jena-28mm-f2-8-110270-/300549385311?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item45fa23ac5f
Is this what he says it is, or is it a clumsily altered 29mm lens ?
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LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
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Ultron
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 60
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Ultron wrote:
that price seems ridiculous, especially when there are so many 135 2.8 lenses around. Plenty of pentacon 135 2.8 on ebay for much less.
Anyway, the lens does say Carl Zeiss Jena in the pic, and maybe the seller thinks this is a Sonnar copy.
I had to look it up on Google, as I would before spending thay much money on a lens!
btw this 135 3.5 is a sonnar and it's much cheaper!
Click here to see on Ebay
Edited to remove huge ebay URL.
Please use the "ebay" buttons and insert the item number in there when composing your post. |
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Ultron
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 60
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Ultron wrote:
| Lloydy wrote: |
http://www.ebay.com/itm/M42-mount-Carl-Zeiss-Jena-28mm-f2-8-110270-/300549385311?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item45fa23ac5f
Is this what he says it is, or is it a clumsily altered 29mm lens ? |
that looks like a Cosina or something, probably not German at all. |
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Ultron
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 60
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Ultron wrote:
Oh, same seller.
I'm starting to doubt if he is a fair seller... |
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fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Posts: 1974
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:57 am Post subject: |
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fermy wrote:
| Ultron wrote: |
Oh, same seller.
I'm starting to doubt if he is a fair seller... |
As if 92.7% feedback is not enough 
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Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/96060788@N06/ |
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Ultron
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 60
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Ultron wrote:
ah, it's a sigma
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/213289-carl-zeiss-jena-28mm-1-2-8-a.html
Some of his stuff seems worth the high prices and some of his stuff is way overpriced. No way this is worth $ 390.
This has been opened and repaired, you can tell by the marks on the namering.
Maybe $ 20 because he has the box, cap and hood. |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 7794
Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
Actually, I'm wrong to call him out on that 28mm lens  I think it's one of these -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Carl-Zeiss-Jena-28mm-f2-8-Fast-Prime-Lens-Pentax-PK-Mount-fits-K-5-K-30-K-r-K-x-/330893222847?pt=UK_Lenses_Filters_Lenses&hash=item4d0ac5e3bf&nma=true&si=SNg43TnbsutAEev%252Fan5qgEwRvEE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
http://www.mflenses.com/carl-zeiss-jena-ii-28mm-f28-macro-japanse-version.html
Which as Ultron says, looks Japanese - because it is Japanese.
That mess with the paint on the 28mm mark on the trim ring looks very suspicious though.
_________________
LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3705
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Good lens, but not Sonnar |
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Pancolart wrote:
His only mistake is putting word Sonnar with capital letter. And ludicrous price of course.
Compare Pentacon (later also named DDR Zeiss) 2.8/135mm with some other Sonnars:
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/RF-Nikkor/RF180mm
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Last edited by Pancolart on Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ultron
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 60
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Ultron wrote:
It's not paint, the lens has been poorly serviced.
The namering has been unscrewed for repair and damaged in the process.
I would not pay 72 pounds for it either. Seems like a good lens, and it's fun that it says zeiss on the lens and the cap but still... |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3705
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Quote frome here: http://museum.praktica.de/index.php?id=11&L=0
On the 2nd of August, 1984 the VEB Pentacon was incorporated in the much larger Carl-Zeiss-Jena combine. For the third time in one century, a Zeiss company grabbed for the photo industry in Dresden - finally with success. From now on, the independence of the VEB was lost forever.
The new company was forced to sign new contracts with suppliers from Carl-Zeiss-Jena and had to withdrawal from long-year local partners. The business structure had to be changed to Zeiss demands.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
That lens that lloydy linked to is a Cosina and in common with he other Cosinas of that age is really crap - low contrast, muted colours, just a poor lens. You will see lots of Cosina and Sigma made lenses with the CZJ branding, they are all crap.
In 1991, they changed the labelling on the Pentacon lenses to Carl Zeiss Jena because Pentacon VEB was merged with CZJ VEB.
Therefore, the late production Pentacon lenses are marked CZJ but are identical to the Pentacon ones.
CZJ did actually make lenses in the Pentacon PB mount, but it's not easy to mix them up with the Pentacon 'fakes' because they have different specifications. The Pentacon 'fakes' are 2.8/28. 1.8/50, 2.8/135, as far as I know, the 2.4/50 pancake was never seen with CZJ lettering. The real Zeiss are 2.8/20, 2.8/25, 2.4/35, 1.8/50, 1.8/80, 3.5/135 and a lot rarer than the Pentacons.
The Japanese CZJ lenses came about because the production of lenses in Germany ended and the UK importer needed to source new stock, so unscrupulously, they contracted with Sigma and Cosina to produce versions of their lenses with CZJ labelling. These lenses are identical to the crap they were selling with Sigma and Cosina labels and should be avoided like the plague, I have tried many of them and they are right at the very bottom of the pile in quality.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5017
Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
h'mm my CZJ 28mm f2.8 in Pentacon mount says "made in GDR" 
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3705
Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Maybe it would better to just show photos of fakes that have nothing to do with either Pentacon nor Zeiss Jena.
COSINA mentioned above, available in both 28 and 24mm (photos from Fred Miranda forum: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/949530
also topic here: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=54132
SIGMA primes 24mm, 28mm, 135mm. Topic covered here: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=44781
Looking like this: 
None of the above lenses in healthy state isn't really crappy IMHO. Bot nothing special for sure.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| Excalibur wrote: |
| h'mm my CZJ 28mm f2.8 in Pentacon mount says "made in GDR" |
Of course, they all do, because they were made by Pentacon in the former GDR, until 1991 they are labelled Pentacon, after that, Carl Zeiss Jena. What you have is a Pentacon lens, but made after 91 so labelled CZJ.
It's a very good lens, that Cosina is crap by comparison.
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5017
Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
Please delete
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent.
Last edited by Excalibur on Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cambug
Joined: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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cambug wrote:
Ian,
Are you sure that there is a Zeiss Jena 25mm f2.8 lens in B mount? I am aware that there was a 25mm f4 Flektogon in Exakta or m42 mount, not even sure if it existed in Praktina mount... |
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fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Posts: 1974
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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fermy wrote:
Nothing really confusing here. Lenses made in GDR, labeled CZJ that look like Pentacons and have Pentacon specs, are Pentacons (produced after the ultimate merger of Pentacon and CZJ in 91).
Lenses made in Japan, labeled CZJ are low to average quality Sigma and Cosina (for Sigma and Cosina made good lenses too).
_________________
Many lenses and some film bodies for sale here: http://forum.mflenses.com/canon-fd-minolta-md-c-mounts-m42-pentax-and-more-t50465.html
Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/96060788@N06/ |
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5017
Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| fermy wrote: |
Nothing really confusing here. Lenses made in GDR, labeled CZJ that look like Pentacons and have Pentacon specs, are Pentacons (produced after the merger of Pentacon and CZJ).
Lenses made in Japan, labeled CZJ are low to average quality Sigma and Cosina (for Sigma and Cosina made good lenses too). |
Ah my memory is coming back as a few years ago, it was mentioned here to go for the lens with GDR stamped on the back.
_________________
Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| cambug wrote: |
Ian,
Are you sure that there is a Zeiss Jena 25mm f2.8 lens in B mount? I am aware that there was a 25mm f4 Flektogon in Exakta or m42 mount, not even sure if it existed in Praktina mount... |
I might be wrong, I can't remember if I've seen a 25mm in B mount or not, sorry.
| fermy wrote: |
Nothing really confusing here. Lenses made in GDR, labeled CZJ that look like Pentacons and have Pentacon specs, are Pentacons (produced after the ultimate merger of Pentacon and CZJ in 91).
Lenses made in Japan, labeled CZJ are low to average quality Sigma and Cosina (for Sigma and Cosina made good lenses too). |
That sums it up, yes. They bought the cheapest Sigma and Cosina had to offer, so they didn't buy any of the better offerings. The Sigma made Pentacon 2.8/135 is a truly awful lens, it wuld be the worst 135 I'd tried, but the Cosina 3.5/135 is even worse, that one was never sold as a Pentacon however. The Sigma made Pentacon zooms are also terrible, nasty cheap plastic, I had four or five copies of the 35-70, all poorly assembled, decentred, just junk.
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I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 7794
Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
Definitely a case of 'buyer beware' then  How many people will see the 'Carl Zeiss' name and the inflated price tag and believe it's a good quality lens ?
The only lens I have thrown away was a Cosina 28, which from my shaky memory was that lens.
_________________
LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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frenched
Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Posts: 395
Location: MD USA
Expire: 2014-06-17
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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frenched wrote:
Interesting follow-on to the Meyer/Pentacon/Zeiss history nonetheless.
| Lloydy wrote: |
| How many people will see the 'Carl Zeiss' name and the inflated price tag and believe it's a good quality lens ? |
Just one will suffice, as far as the seller is concerned I'm sure.  |
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