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Complete list of Helios lenses - getting closer
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Also it could be interesting to notice to modification of Helios-44 f22 (long nose).
Inscriptions differs between early ones and late ones. See comparaison below. (on the left is earlier)
But it might be too much attention to details.



PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BurstMox wrote:
Also it could be interesting to notice to modification of Helios-44 f22 (long nose).
Inscriptions differs between early ones and late ones. See comparaison below. (on the left is earlier)
But it might be too much attention to details.



Check this out:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/368364-helios-44-sn-0000xxx-slight-differences-sn-000xxxx.html


PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hi all i read the whole topic just to find out what helios 44 is the one i have.. it says 44M-6 at the front, but from what i have read here the 44M-6 serial numbers start with 93... mine starts with 92... is it a 44M-5, and someone changed the front cover?

wasnt able to embed the photos to my post, so i inserted the following links to them..

https://ibb.co/BTKGHh4
https://ibb.co/c2WJg3f
https://ibb.co/N61dCs8
https://ibb.co/rQ72yDR


PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
dzimmys wrote:
hi all i read the whole topic just to find out what helios 44 is the one i have.. it says 44M-6 at the front, but from what i have read here the 44M-6 serial numbers start with 93... mine starts with 92... is it a 44M-5, and someone changed the front cover?

wasnt able to embed the photos to my post, so i inserted the following links to them..

https://ibb.co/BTKGHh4
https://ibb.co/c2WJg3f
https://ibb.co/N61dCs8
https://ibb.co/rQ72yDR


Helios-44M6 started in 1992, so everything looks ok on your lens.


PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why not create another Helios-44 review? Smile



https://lensqaworks.com/2020/04/27/review-helios-44-7-58mm-12-0/


PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tf wrote:
This lens is from the last generation of Helios’s 58mm era.

It actually isn't, this one is: http://forum.mflenses.com/old-story-which-helios-58-mm-t81316,start,75.html#1535456


PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
aidaho wrote:

It actually isn't, this one is: http://forum.mflenses.com/old-story-which-helios-58-mm-t81316,start,75.html#1535456


Thank you, fixed!


PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hello,

As I said in my presentation, i've gathered some datas about silver (and early glossy black) KMZ Helios 44. My source images to make this job have benn found in the world's largest database avalaible, eBay ! In fact mostly, some were found on other similar websites, or across Internet... At the moment I'm writing this post I have collected picture of 269 lenses (including 57 Start mount). I can add the following to the work already done by no-X :

Helios 44 f/22
Lowest serial seen : 0000536
Highest serial seen : 0008461
In this range 3 lenses are of the f/16 type, serials 0005648, 0008022 et 0008181

Variation of the index mark on the preset ring, dot from 0000536 to 0003291, line from 0006216 to 0008461
There's also variations on the engraving of the aperture ring, BurstMox posted a picture of this difference.


Helios 44 f/16
Highest serial red П marked lens : 0027299

13 blades till serial 0239376
8 blades from serial 0242111
Lenses 0044693 with 8 blades instead of 13, but preset ring is period correct

2 types of preset ring :
- type 1 seen till serial 0070070, knurled preset ring, only one raised flat section, engraved
- type 2 seen from 0073924 -> partially knurled preset ring, two raised flat sections (symetrical), one engraved
Lenses 0018475, 0044234, 0051815, 0061975, 0070059 with type 2 preset ring instead of type 1

Silver nose till serial 0166557 (in fact 0168xxx, but the 3 last digits are hidden on the picture)
Black nose from serial 0171031
Lenses 0025581, 0100841, 0151466 with black nose instead of silver

First latin engraved nameplate seen on lens 0087122
First lens marked "Made in USSR" 0118042
This is the funny part, all combinations are avalaibles, there's no rules !
From serial 0310305, all lenses seen are engraved "Made in USSR" AND have latin nameplate.


This can be summarized as follow :

Silver f/16
13 blades, preset type 1, silver nose, red П 0011728 -> 0027299
13 blades preset type 1 silver nose 0029222 -> 0071070
13 blades, preset type 2, silver nose 0073924 -> 0166557 (0168xxx)
13 blades, preset type 2, black nose 0171031 -> 0239376
8 blades, preset type 2, black nose 0242111 -> 0437489

All serials on silver lenses begin by N°, exepted on lens 0329298 where it begins by N


And about glossy black lenses :
8 blades, preset type 2 black nose, serial prefix "N°", M39 mount 0310305 -> 0326335
8 blades, preset type 2 black nose, serial prefix "N", M39 mount 0340556 -> 0418195
8 blades, preset type 2 black nose, serial prefix "N", M42 mount 0421154 -> 0463669

To be continued...


Note : the ranges given are based on the serials of the lenses I've seen, I'll edit this post whenever I found new datas.


PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The comparison with "normal" Smile lens:



PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That just shows infinity tests aren't everything. The Helios 44 is probably one of my favorite lenses of all time for portraits, people, and street mostly because of the bokeh and corner softness. From what I read I expected a 44M-7 to do better though.


PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
That just shows infinity tests aren't everything. The Helios 44 is probably one of my favorite lenses of all time for portraits, people, and street mostly because of the bokeh and corner softness. From what I read I expected a 44M-7 to do better though.


The close-focus test (1.7m) displays that Helios is worst on portrait distances too.
Note: this particular copy at least. But I promise to get another one, from another period and factory


PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
That just shows infinity tests aren't everything. The Helios 44 is probably one of my favorite lenses of all time for portraits, people, and street mostly because of the bokeh and corner softness. From what I read I expected a 44M-7 to do better though.


This is certainly true and this Helios 44 lens family with the ancient Biotar design offer a lot of advantages for special tasks for very little money. I own several copies myself but haven't used them for years....

However, the quality of a lens is defined by other criteria of which the infinity landscape photography is probably the most challenging one.

The Minolta lens is a more modern Ultron design which is known to have in comparison a better corner performance than any Biotar.

At the end of the day it's a question of taste and the tasks to perform.


PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tf wrote:
cbass wrote:
That just shows infinity tests aren't everything. The Helios 44 is probably one of my favorite lenses of all time for portraits, people, and street mostly because of the bokeh and corner softness. From what I read I expected a 44M-7 to do better though.


The close-focus test (1.7m) displays that Helios is worst on portrait distances too.
Note: this particular copy at least. But I promise to get another one, from another period and factory


Interesting point. I have both of these lenses so can conduct my own test. I believe I have more keepers from my Helios 44-2. Stay tuned.


PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Critical reproduction of a flat surface doesn't have much to do with real world usability of a lens. The helios has it's characteristics and so does the Minolta. Once I move to mirrorless I will have to get both.


PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I found some images of a 44-7 on an auction site. Apparently a special version for the Zenit-7 camera (http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Zenit_7) with bayonet mount. It Looks like the 44m version was inspired by it's design.









Images from https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/85048123_zenit-7 (for as long as the link lasts. I copied them to my flickr account).


PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cabessius wrote:
Johan_c_1999 wrote:
Ok. Thank u @aidaho, @olmajti, @Lightshow
It's very great to know all about Helios lens from you guys
Well some that bother me is when I surfed in internet looking for Helios lens 44-3 Zebra. The first that appear was Helios 44-3 Zebra with 16 blades

I have also seen the "16 bladed" Helios 44-3.
It is a modification where they grab a 44-3, disassemble it, and longitudinally cut all the blades.
That way the original 8 blades become 16.
I don't know how this affects the IQ.

I don't think they cut the blades.
Looks like they sacrifice one lens to get the extra blades, then drill extra holes in the aperture basket. Not worth the effort or the $ IMO.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/HELIOS-44-2-f2-58mm-logo-KMZ-16-aperture-blades-MADE-in-USSR-7421374/283856566898


A different one, the basket seems to be a different construction, I'm not sure that the image is from a Helios 44.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Silver-16-iris-blades-Helios-44-2-58mm-F2-Full-Frame-Cine-Lens-Canon-EF/303246951534


Another with a beautifully round aperture:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/HELIOS-44-2-f2-58mm-logo-KMZ-16-aperture-blades-MADE-in-USSR-7265792/274329789869


PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Picture 1 and 3 seems like a waste to me. They aperture isn't even round after all that work. Picture 2 seems to have an actual round aperture.


PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree, if it isn't round after all that work, what's the point?
I'm wondering if the 2nd one has a new basket made on CNC, it almost looks like there has been no modifications, which is why I was questioning if it was from a Helios at all.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:58 pm    Post subject: My m6 came apart Reply with quote
My Helios 44-m6 Valdai came apart while focussing. I found a servicing video on youtube but when he took out the optical block it looked entirely different. It wasn't threaded in but slotted in and fixed with screws (mine obviously wasn't).

So is my lens really a 44m-6 or has somebody been putting together different parts into a lens?



PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: My m6 came apart Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:

So is my lens really a 44m-6 or has somebody been putting together different parts into a lens?


I'd prefer a side shot and a serial too, but from the picture you've provided I do not see anything that wouldn't be consistent with early 44m-6.
TBH off the top of my head I don't remember how a focus limiter looks like in 44m-6, but I bet it's still there.
The lens was likely hastily assembled and poorly tuned, allowing optical block to run out of threads.

TL;DR: pretty sure it's legit. Pretty sure it isn't broken, just incorrectly assembled.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I watched some more of the video and I think the thread is part of the focussing block that came out with the optical block.
https://youtu.be/36dCqGi9K3c?t=750

Side view:


PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
I watched some more of the video and I think the thread is part of the focussing block that came out with the optical block.
https://youtu.be/36dCqGi9K3c?t=750

Side view:

Yes, definitely a hack job at reassembly. Focus ring is way too forward.
Again, to me there is nothing out of the ordinary for a 1992 copy.

Not sure why it was disassembled, since I don't see any fresh grease on threads.
Even if someone wanted to exchange optical cores with a lower-res model, there is a much easier and straightforward way to do so.

If you don't have tools and experience, I'd just get a refund.

If a deal was too sweet, continue with body disassembly and reassemble it correctly using one of the guides on the interwebs.
Helios 44m-X is one of the most straightforward lenses to work with.
If not for the slotted screws, it would be on top of my serviceability list.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
aidaho wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
I watched some more of the video and I think the thread is part of the focussing block that came out with the optical block.
https://youtu.be/36dCqGi9K3c?t=750

Side view:

Yes, definitely a hack job at reassembly. Focus ring is way too forward.
Again, to me there is nothing out of the ordinary for a 1992 copy.

Not sure why it was disassembled, since I don't see any fresh grease on threads.
Even if someone wanted to exchange optical cores with a lower-res model, there is a much easier and straightforward way to do so.

If you don't have tools and experience, I'd just get a refund.

If a deal was too sweet, continue with body disassembly and reassemble it correctly using one of the guides on the interwebs.
Helios 44m-X is one of the most straightforward lenses to work with.
If not for the slotted screws, it would be on top of my serviceability list.


I already got the lens in februari A bit late for a refund. I will probably have to get the focussing threads of the lens block right? and reassemble it with the focus ring.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:

I already got the lens in februari A bit late for a refund. I will probably have to get the focussing threads of the lens block right? and reassemble it with the focus ring.

Yes, that's the general idea. Focus ring itself should have been threaded deeper than it is now.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Does anyone know what this means?

Color Formula
Helios-44 - 10-0-1.5
Helios-44-2 - 10-0-1.5
Helios-44-7- 10-0-1.5
Helios-44M-4 - 10-0-1.5
MC Helios-44K-4 - 11-0-0
MC Helios-44M-4 - 11-0-0
MC Helios-44M-5 - 11-0-0
MC Helios-44M-6 - 11-0-0
MC Helios-44M-7 - 11-0-0

https://camerapedia.fandom.com/wiki/Helios-44
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