Home

Please support mflenses.com if you need any graphic related work order it from us, click on above banner to order!

SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Old story which Helios 58 mm
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/helios-44.html


PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbass wrote:
I will let Russian lens/Helios experts correct me if I am wrong because I am just speculating here.

However, some of these lenses like the Helios 44-2 and other variants were produced in different plants and their production spanned decades. For example, the Helios 44-2 was made from the 1970s or slightly before that and then to like 1983 or slightly after and during that production they also made 44M variants. Why would they make both lenses if the later lenses were improvements to the optical formula or coatings? If they did make improvements to coatings or glass or optical formula then why would they not use them across the models?

I looked at the two Helios 44-2 lenses that I have and the coating is very similar but different. One reflects a orange hue and the other a deep purple and orange. I also see the same thing in an ebay listing of 44M-4's.I stole this photo and put it in my flicker account so when the ebay listening ends and expires people can still see it.



They are all 44m-4's. Produced in various plants probably at various times. Only one is labeled MC. I see one with a orange looking coating. One with a red coating and two which I am unable to determine. Ebay listing here while available:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Helios-44m-4-EXC-58mm-f2-Russian-Bokeh-portrait-Lens-DSLR-M42-Mount-Canon-Old/132904601908?hash=item1ef1bb4934:g:iY4AAOSwXtNaeaWy

Personally even if the model number is the same I don't think they used the same coatings or the same glass as they were produced over time. Therefore, I don't think you can generalize performance based on the model alone.


two KMZ one Valdai. One with no visible factory mark. The first two digits of the serial number are the year of production. Later models are progressively sharper (in theory) but towards the fall of the USSR QC got progressively worse, so sample variation started to increase. I also think the best copies went to the west. That's why we see much more complaints about copy variation from former USSR countries. I think all this fretting about versions is much ado about nothing. I compared a 44-2 44m and 44-m6 and hardly saw any discernable differences.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kamerer wrote:
http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/helios-44.html


It is not as simple as that:







On the right is a member of the rare second iteration of a 44M-X series.
Internally it is very different from the well-known specimen on the left.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kamerer wrote:
http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/helios-44.html


I don't think it's that simple.

Quote:

Helios-44 - 35/14 lines / mm
Helios-44-2 - 38/20 lines / mm
Helios-44-7 - 36/17 lines / mm
Helios-44M-4 - 38/19 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-4 - 41/20 lines / mm
MC Helios-44K-4 - 42/21 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-5 - 41/20 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-6 - 45/25 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-7 - 50/30 lines / mm


Based on those numbers the 44M-6 should be up there, but you don't see that when it's put up against a Helios 44-3. The Helios 44-3 isn't listed there but it came after the helios 44-2 and thus I imagine the Helios 44M-6 should be able to out resolve it. But it doesn't. At least not in this test.

https://natalispalette.jimdofree.com/new-and-old-camera-lenses-by-yuri-stangrit/comparisons-and-reviews/helios-44-3-58mm-f2-0-mc-vs-helios-44m-6-58mm-f2-0-mc/


PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbass wrote:
The Helios 44-3 isn't listed there but it came after the helios 44-2 and thus I imagine the Helios 44M-6 should be able to out resolve it.

44-3 and 44M-6 were introduced at about the same time (around 1990)


PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbass wrote:
Kamerer wrote:
http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/helios-44.html


I don't think it's that simple.

Quote:

Helios-44 - 35/14 lines / mm
Helios-44-2 - 38/20 lines / mm
Helios-44-7 - 36/17 lines / mm
Helios-44M-4 - 38/19 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-4 - 41/20 lines / mm
MC Helios-44K-4 - 42/21 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-5 - 41/20 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-6 - 45/25 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-7 - 50/30 lines / mm


Based on those numbers the 44M-6 should be up there, but you don't see that when it's put up against a Helios 44-3. The Helios 44-3 isn't listed there but it came after the helios 44-2 and thus I imagine the Helios 44M-6 should be able to out resolve it. But it doesn't. At least not in this test.

https://natalispalette.jimdofree.com/new-and-old-camera-lenses-by-yuri-stangrit/comparisons-and-reviews/helios-44-3-58mm-f2-0-mc-vs-helios-44m-6-58mm-f2-0-mc/


Looking at the test, seems that the Helios 44-3 compete with the M-7 not with the M-6


PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

papasito wrote:
cbass wrote:
Kamerer wrote:
http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/helios-44.html


I don't think it's that simple.

Quote:

Helios-44 - 35/14 lines / mm
Helios-44-2 - 38/20 lines / mm
Helios-44-7 - 36/17 lines / mm
Helios-44M-4 - 38/19 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-4 - 41/20 lines / mm
MC Helios-44K-4 - 42/21 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-5 - 41/20 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-6 - 45/25 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-7 - 50/30 lines / mm


Based on those numbers the 44M-6 should be up there, but you don't see that when it's put up against a Helios 44-3. The Helios 44-3 isn't listed there but it came after the helios 44-2 and thus I imagine the Helios 44M-6 should be able to out resolve it. But it doesn't. At least not in this test.

https://natalispalette.jimdofree.com/new-and-old-camera-lenses-by-yuri-stangrit/comparisons-and-reviews/helios-44-3-58mm-f2-0-mc-vs-helios-44m-6-58mm-f2-0-mc/


Looking at the test, seems that the Helios 44-3 compete with the M-7 not with the M-6


44-3 = MC 44M-4 and MC 44M-5
41/20


PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbass wrote:

They are all 44m-4's. Produced in various plants probably at various times. Only one is labeled MC. I see one with a orange looking coating. One with a red coating and two which I am unable to determine. Ebay listing here while available:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Helios-44m-4-EXC-58mm-f2-Russian-Bokeh-portrait-Lens-DSLR-M42-Mount-Canon-Old/132904601908?hash=item1ef1bb4934:g:iY4AAOSwXtNaeaWy
MC 44-M4 =63U$....

https://www.avito.ru/moskva/fototehnika/zenit_et_gelios_1900345258
MC Helios-44-M6 with body Zenit ~20U$


PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kamerer wrote:
papasito wrote:
cbass wrote:
Kamerer wrote:
http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/helios-44.html


I don't think it's that simple.

Quote:

Helios-44 - 35/14 lines / mm
Helios-44-2 - 38/20 lines / mm
Helios-44-7 - 36/17 lines / mm
Helios-44M-4 - 38/19 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-4 - 41/20 lines / mm
MC Helios-44K-4 - 42/21 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-5 - 41/20 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-6 - 45/25 lines / mm
MC Helios-44M-7 - 50/30 lines / mm


Based on those numbers the 44M-6 should be up there, but you don't see that when it's put up against a Helios 44-3. The Helios 44-3 isn't listed there but it came after the helios 44-2 and thus I imagine the Helios 44M-6 should be able to out resolve it. But it doesn't. At least not in this test.

https://natalispalette.jimdofree.com/new-and-old-camera-lenses-by-yuri-stangrit/comparisons-and-reviews/helios-44-3-58mm-f2-0-mc-vs-helios-44m-6-58mm-f2-0-mc/


Looking at the test, seems that the Helios 44-3 compete with the M-7 not with the M-6


44-3 = MC 44M-4 and MC 44M-5
41/20


Thank you, very much.

So I have to understand that the M-6 is sharper than the 44'3. Am I wrong?


PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

papasito wrote:

8 ) Helios-44 - 35/14 lines / mm
7) Helios-44-7 - 36/17 lines / mm
6) Helios-44M-4 - 38/19 lines / mm
5) Helios-44-2 - 38/20 lines / mm
4) MC Helios-44M-4 - 41/20 lines / mm
4) MC Helios-44M-5 - 41/20 lines / mm
4) MC Helios 44-3 - 41/20 lines / mm
3) MC Helios-44K-4 - 42/21 lines / mm
2) MC Helios-44M-6 - 45/25 lines / mm
1) MC Helios-44M-7 - 50/30 lines / mm

It is list Helios-44 with resolution lines.


Last edited by Kamerer on Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kamerer wrote:
papasito wrote:

8 ) Helios-44 - 35/14 lines / mm
7) Helios-44-7 - 36/17 lines / mm
6) Helios-44M-4 - 38/19 lines / mm
5) Helios-44-2 - 38/20 lines / mm
4) MC Helios-44M-4 - 41/20 lines / mm
4) MC Helios-44M-5 - 41/20 lines / mm
4) Helios 44-3 - 41/20 lines / mm
3) MC Helios-44K-4 - 42/21 lines / mm
2) MC Helios-44M-6 - 45/25 lines / mm
1) MC Helios-44M-7 - 50/30 lines / mm

It is list Helios-44 with resolution lines.


Thank you, Kamerer


PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still think you shouldn't put too much importance on the version. Here is another test with 44-3 vs 44m-7 where they performed pretty similar. There are links to comparison pictures in that thread.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/294334-little-test-helios-44-3-vs-44m-7-st-55-1-8-vs-44m-7-vs-smc-50-1-7-a.html#post3241106

I don't think the 44-3 is some magical undiscovered performer. I think it comes down to coatings which changed over time. Manufacturing tolerances or changes in glass or formula if they ever occured in production which has more to do with the time period the lens was produced. All helios are remarkly similar optically. Buy one cheap. Buy one in good condition. Be happy.


PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbass wrote:
I still think you shouldn't put too much importance on the version. Here is another test with 44-3 vs 44m-7 where they performed pretty similar. There are links to comparison pictures in that thread.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/294334-little-test-helios-44-3-vs-44m-7-st-55-1-8-vs-44m-7-vs-smc-50-1-7-a.html#post3241106

I don't think the 44-3 is some magical undiscovered performer. I think it comes down to coatings which changed over time. Manufacturing tolerances or changes in glass or formula if they ever occured in production which has more to do with the time period the lens was produced. All helios are remarkly similar optically. Buy one cheap. Buy one in good condition. Be happy.

...And buy one Helios-103 ) 50mm/1.8 and 55/28line for digital body without mirror.


PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbass wrote:
I still think you shouldn't put too much importance on the version. Here is another test with 44-3 vs 44m-7 where they performed pretty similar. There are links to comparison pictures in that thread.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/294334-little-test-helios-44-3-vs-44m-7-st-55-1-8-vs-44m-7-vs-smc-50-1-7-a.html#post3241106

I don't think the 44-3 is some magical undiscovered performer. I think it comes down to coatings which changed over time. Manufacturing tolerances or changes in glass or formula if they ever occured in production which has more to do with the time period the lens was produced. All helios are remarkly similar optically. Buy one cheap. Buy one in good condition. Be happy.


Thank you cbass


PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kamerer wrote:

...And buy one Helios-103 ) 50mm/1.8 and 55/28line for digital body without mirror.


I already have a Zenitar 50 1.7. Is the Helios 103 still worth considering?


PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbass wrote:
Kamerer wrote:

...And buy one Helios-103 ) 50mm/1.8 and 55/28line for digital body without mirror.


I already have a Zenitar 50 1.7. Is the Helios 103 still worth considering?

Yes, Zenitar 50/1.7 (Ultron) = 43/24 lines
Helios 103 (Biotar?) = 55/28 lines

http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/zenitar-1-7-50-lens.gif
5 group from 6 lenses

http://lens-club.ru/lenses/item/c_1297.html#
4 group from 6 lenses


PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbass wrote:
Kamerer wrote:

...And buy one Helios-103 ) 50mm/1.8 and 55/28line for digital body without mirror.


I already have a Zenitar 50 1.7. Is the Helios 103 still worth considering?


The Helios 103 is one of the most marvellous little gems around, and still so cheap.
It wasn't so long ago that they were selling for $10. Prices have risen, but they are still less than a quarter of the price of the Zenitar, which is a wonderful lens in its own right.
A truly brilliant little optic
Tom